Weight training and injuries

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Bill Glasheen
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Weight training and injuries

Post by Bill Glasheen »

I'm starting this thread because of a sidebar on Harry Cook's thread.

This was one of my posts that started some of the discussion.
Bill wrote:I think mostly of Universal, Nautilus, Strive, and all the other healthclub gadgets that isolate muscle groups. But the TV stuff is worse in a way. From Universal to Nautilus to Srive, we at least have a progression to machines that pay more and more attention to working strength in the entire range of motion. This addresses the issue of multiple muscles being used for simple motions, and each muscle emphasizing its contribution at some point in the range. Things like bo flex make BIG compromises in the name of economy and size.

In a perfect world, you have it all. One ideally should start with the open chain, classic lifts that use the most muscles, and require a lot of coordination. You exhaust and train your body FIRST on these very challenging exercises. Then you do cleanup work with the barbells, dumbbells, and - yes - machines. Some muscle groups like the hamstrings and the lats are best isolated and worked on with machines. And if you don't develop those hamstrings enough, you actually put yourself at risk for injury.

The worst case scenario is the guy who does the 20 to 30 minute machine station workout, and then tries to work his body hard on the playing field. The benefits of the machines are somewhat limiting. Furthermore, these folks typically end up with odd injuries (such as rotator cuff tears), and never know why.

No free lunch.

- Bill
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Glenn
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Post by Glenn »

Good idea Bill, I'll re-post my question here:

For toning without bulking up, what kind of traditional freeweight lifting workout is recommended? I've been using the circuit training only, but I don't want to stay focused on that if it may do more harm than good in the long run.
Glenn
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Glenn wrote:I realize the redirection this thread has taken should probably be in a separate post, but:

For toning without bulking up, what kind of traditional freeweight lifting workout is recommended? I've been using the circuit training only, but I don't want to stay focused on that if it may do more harm than good in the long run.
Any resistance training will burn calories and help with "tone." But understand that there are many goals in doing such training:

* Aesthetics (looking good on the beach)

* Weight managment and health (insulin sensitivity, blood pressure, etc.)

* Strength

* Power

* Speed

* Range of motion

* Agility

* Coordination

* Injury prevention

Most people who go into the McGyms care only about the first two items. For the athlete, there is much more. The circuit training is designed mostly for the first 3 items. The other items require a bit more careful consideration.

If you do just a few open chain exercises to start your workouts, Glenn, you can round out the rough edges. A little bit of work with some dumbbells and/or a barbell goes a very long way. If you did nothing more than dumbbell bench press and some walking lunges with barbell on the shoulders, that would round you out w/o adding too much more time. There are many other open chain variations of the bench and the squat that would do.

Obviously it can go much deeper. But that should solve your immediate issue.

- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

jorvik wrote:just what exactly is rotator cuff injuries, how do they manifest themselves?
This is a good article.

Rotator Cuff Problems

My main concern is the person that spends all their time on something like Nautilus, and then does very hard work on the heavy bag. The machines will work on the primary muscles like pectoralis, anterior deltoids, and triceps, but leave the stabilizer muscles untrained. The athlete who then uses this extra strength against a heavy bag will put those relatively weaker stabilizer muscles in jeopardy. Been there, done that. Nautilus was BIG in the 1970s because it was new. But injuries in the professional and collegiate athletic ranks combined with a realization of the limitations caused the strength coaches to relegate these machines to a lesser status in the training rooms.

Another thing to consider in this type of training is proper rest, good balance in the strength training program, and variety.

Twelve weeks is about the right amount of time to do the same routine. After that, you should choose different exercises to shock the body (in a good way), prevent boredom, and prevent overuse injuries.

- Bill
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Size

Most bodybuilders are concerned primarily with size and symmetry. They want to look good on the stage. This means every muscle being bigger in proper proportion, and having the fat stripped away.

Size is also important in sports like football and sumo.

Size comes primarily from shocking the body with high weight and low repetion. And then you need to add in the healing and growth phase. The goal is to trigger hormonal responses in the body (testosterone, growth hormone) that cause muscle hypertrophy. A little size is good for anyone. BIG is useful only for the bodybuilders, sumo, and linemen. The latter two categories of athletes don't mind some fat to add to their mass.

But even these size-oriented athletes need to engage in "tricks" to maximize the growth. Periodization is one method used both to add variety and to work up to really massive shocks on the body.

And then there is cheating with drugs (GH and anabolic steroids).

The well-rounded athlete who trains in all the dimensions needed will get a little bigger without looking like a freak. Freakish size requires compromises on other dimensions of athletic prowess.

Ninety-nine percent of athletes will get what they need without freakish results by a proper balance of exercises, and then by doing everything they need in no more than an hour. Proper variety and proper rest are also important.

This is part science and part art. And everyone who is serious about it eventually customizes their workouts to their own specific needs.

- Bill
benzocaine
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Post by benzocaine »

How many times a week do you recomend weight lifting?

Do you prefer a split routine, all on one day, or one body part a day with numerous excersizes for it?

How often do you take a day away from all training to just resty and let the body recooerate?
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Ben wrote:How many times a week do you recomend weight lifting?

That depends on the goals, the age, the activity, and the time of year.

Young people working out hard should train a body part twice a week. One day hard, and one day lighter. As you get older you don't heal as easily, and healing is an extremely important part of resistance training. Consequently you want to stretch "the week" out a bit with age.

In the offseason or during heavy competition, once a week per body part is fine.

And don't forget that you need to program in vacation time. My old strength coach termed this "active rest." Don't spend 3 weeks sitting on the couch drinking beer and eating pizza as your "rest" period.
Ben wrote:Do you prefer a split routine, all on one day, or one body part a day with numerous excersizes for it?

The latter is best. I have split my routines into anywhere from 2 to 4 different days. If you are a serious Uechika, you may want to dedicate days solely to the fingers/forearms and the toes/calves. And I sometimes designate "power" days and "strength" days. The former emphasizes Olympic lifts and plyometrics. The latter emphasizes classical weight training (bench, squat, etc.).

Variety in general is good for both the body and the soul.
Ben wrote:How often do you take a day away from all training to just resty and let the body recooerate?
At least once a week. Some do two to three days training and then a rest day. Find out what works for your body and your schedule.

And don't mix karate training and weights. If you must do both on the same day, do the weights last. Exceptions to that would be style-specific work like on the toes and the grip/fingers. And it's cool to do ab work on most (but not all) days.

- Bill
benzocaine
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Post by benzocaine »

Thanks Bill,

I've been lifting a couple times a week now for about a month. I can notice an almost imediate increase in power in my kata. I am still pretty much doing the "Men's Fitness magazine yearly shapeup" IE circuit training routine for now but am always open to a different way of training.. especially if it works :)
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

The most important thing is that you made it to the gym.

Start somewhere, and stick with what you are doing for about 3 months before you change. Then take a week or two break, and do something different. The changes in routine are very important for breaking out of bad habits and avoiding the overuse injuries. Plus the 3 month schedule gives you an opportunity to utilize periodization schemes.

Keep your eyes and ears open to new ideas, and fresh approaches to the standard exercises.

- Bill
Harry Cook
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Post by Harry Cook »

I think it was Glenn who said he didn't want to bulk up. If you are training fairly heavily and not increasing your calorie intake then you won't bulk up. Actually training as heavy as you can (safely of course) will burn the maximum number of calories. I know it is generally said that light weights/high reps is the way to tone your muscles without adding size, but I'm not so sure. Certainly training in this way will build stamina, but size is generally down to diet in the main.
If you can find a copy look at Bill Starr's The Strongest Shall Survive. I think it has recently been republished.
Harry Cook
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Post by Glenn »

Hmmm, interesting. And just what I need, something else to play around with...like I've got time to keep up with what I've been doing! It's certainly easier when you think you already have the answer, I'm starting to see why some martial artists adopt that approach! :D
Glenn
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

Well I'm 50 this year :cry: .and I've fooled around with weights for years and what I notice is that I have to really go for heavy weights, the heaviest that I can lift to get any results at all..I've don low weights and high reps.and absolutely nothing happens..........but If I lift heavy weights even just twice a week I get results............check out
http://www.cbass.com/
Clarence seems to recommend only training for a couple of days a week but intensly.
To be honest I wouldn't know how to vary my regime..heavy works light does not :roll:
benzocaine
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Post by benzocaine »

Image

Hey we've got the same hair line at least. I Woder if he ever did D-Ball or Winstrol V :wink: ??
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Again... Doing heavy is fine. But do heavy all the time and your body stops producing.

Think periodization. Work in 12-week cycles. Focus your changes on the multiple muscle group exercises in the beginning of the workouts. (Bench, squats, power cleans, etc.) Start out in the early weeks with 3 to 5 sets of 10. Graduate to where you do 3 to 5 sets where you warm up with 10, and drop down to high weight with 3 to 5 reps.

Your body is lazy. Whatever you do often, it will find the most efficient way to do it. You need to shock it. You need to vary things.

Also... For the martial artist, the weight isn't the end. The weight you lift is a means to an end.

Finding just the right amound of stress is also important. You want an INTENSE workout that lasts no more than an hour. Undertrain and your body isn't challenged. Overtrain and you instead release cortisol which breaks muscle down.

- Bill
Topos
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"The most important thing is that you made it to the gy

Post by Topos »

Bill,


At my former Agency we had stationed on temporary duty a Major from US Army Rangers: approx 5' 10", est. 170 lbs, All were impressed with his lunch time 7+ mile runs along the Potomac, afternoon work out at the gym. A lot of the 'Desk Commando' Air Force Officers were green with envy and awestruck with him and some were embrassingly deferntial to him, asking him for his 'secrets'. One day he came in and posted a small plack on his wall that broke me up:

EAT CORRECTLY
TAKE VITAMINS
DO NOT SMOKE
WORK OUT FREQUENTLY
CONTROL STRESS
KEEP IN FIGHTING FORM
HAVE FAITH
BE PATRIOTIC
HAVE A HAPPY MARRIAGE
YOU ARE STILL GOING TO DIE!

Nothing more needed to be said.
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