Sorry, another no-touch video
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You have to draw a line somewhere. Just because Uechi goes further than most styles of karate doesn't mean that we should want to go to arbitrary extremes. What is likely to happen if you aren't tough enough for a shot to the shin? What is likely to happen if you aren't tough enough for a shot to the neck?
Mike
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jorvik
one touch
Conditioning is not only to protect, but also to enhance a strike. The shin can be used as a block-as in a rising knee from seisan, or a strike as in a crescent kick with the shin to the leg. Same for the arms. A strong forearm can be either a block or a strike. Working on the timing of how the conditioned limb is used is learned in kotikitae and has a lot more utility than merely wailing away solo at home.
I detect a little anti uechi attitude in Jorvik's posts at times. Understandable if you haven't studied in a good uechi school. If you have then you'd see the merit in the way we condition. It may not be as dramatic or spectacular as the combat ki guy, but it has benefit for the majority of uechi practitioners.
I'm curious as to why you'd be at a uechi website if you don't have that much use for the style. Don't mean to offend, just curious as to what you get from talking with all us uechi guys.
I detect a little anti uechi attitude in Jorvik's posts at times. Understandable if you haven't studied in a good uechi school. If you have then you'd see the merit in the way we condition. It may not be as dramatic or spectacular as the combat ki guy, but it has benefit for the majority of uechi practitioners.
I'm curious as to why you'd be at a uechi website if you don't have that much use for the style. Don't mean to offend, just curious as to what you get from talking with all us uechi guys.
According to their website the founder of Juko-ryu/Combat Ki studied "Okinawan Jiu Jitsu,...Okinawan Judo, and...Okinawan Kenpo"
http://members.cavtel.net/greatneck/Sok ... tional.htm
Somewhere I heard that he took the ki breathing techniques they use from Goju Sanchin, but I cannot remember where I heard that nor will I vouch for such info. I just did a web search for "Sacharnoski" and "Sanchin" and found nothing useful.
http://members.cavtel.net/greatneck/Sok ... tional.htm
Somewhere I heard that he took the ki breathing techniques they use from Goju Sanchin, but I cannot remember where I heard that nor will I vouch for such info. I just did a web search for "Sacharnoski" and "Sanchin" and found nothing useful.
Glenn
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jorvik
Quote
"I detect a little anti uechi attitude in Jorvik's posts at times. Understandable if you haven't studied in a good uechi school. If you have then you'd see the merit in the way we condition. It may not be as dramatic or spectacular as the combat ki guy, but it has benefit for the majority of uechi practitioners.
I'm curious as to why you'd be at a uechi website if you don't have that much use for the style. Don't mean to offend, just curious as to what you get from talking with all us uechi guys."
Well if you read my posts you will find that at times I am anti Aikido, anti Tai-Chi anti Wing-Chun
......but I don't look at it like that, I am an unbiased martial artist.Who is studying martial arts
..................When you say Anti-Uechi that can mean many things, because there are many different styles of Uechi about. I actually started Uechi classes this year ...but don't think that I'll be any easier on the style, if any thing I'll be more critical. One funny thing was when I sparred with some of the guys I used Wing-Chun principles..and they all thought that I was being very traditional, to Uechi that is 
"I detect a little anti uechi attitude in Jorvik's posts at times. Understandable if you haven't studied in a good uechi school. If you have then you'd see the merit in the way we condition. It may not be as dramatic or spectacular as the combat ki guy, but it has benefit for the majority of uechi practitioners.
I'm curious as to why you'd be at a uechi website if you don't have that much use for the style. Don't mean to offend, just curious as to what you get from talking with all us uechi guys."
Well if you read my posts you will find that at times I am anti Aikido, anti Tai-Chi anti Wing-Chun
......but I don't look at it like that, I am an unbiased martial artist.Who is studying martial arts..................When you say Anti-Uechi that can mean many things, because there are many different styles of Uechi about. I actually started Uechi classes this year
...but don't think that I'll be any easier on the style, if any thing I'll be more critical. One funny thing was when I sparred with some of the guys I used Wing-Chun principles..and they all thought that I was being very traditional, to Uechi that is Right. Nobody says Uechi conditioning is mysterious, and although the classes cost money, the conditioning part seems to be free.jorvik wrote:I dunno, but having hard shins?? you can get them by practising in your garage, you certainly don't need somebody to tell you how to hit them with a stick to make them hard.or worse still spend time and money on it
Mike
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Bruise* Lee
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:45 pm
Where it came from? : I will answer that last, as Park Bok Nam (one of former Bagua teachers) use to say - a hungry baby does not care who is grandfather was? So to fill the "hunger" first -
Groin shots - not alot I can explain. There are some rather mystical "qigong" (Kijutsu) type breathing meditations with this but - first level: clinch your butt cheeks, let someone front kick you in the groin, continue diaphragmatic breathing. Thats it. I think alot of it is that when you diaphragmatic breathe you don't get the crampy sensation in your abdomen. Also, with the front kick I think their toe impacting your butt cheeks reduces the impact to your groin. But.... and this is a big but (pardon the pun)..... on more advanced levels you stay relaxed and even take punches to the groin, or throw a kick like a round kick at someone and let them counter kick you in the groin. Punches make REAL impact to the groin - I have taken an uppercut fist and felt my scrotum and gonads get stretched all the way back until they hit my anus - the sensation scared me, but I had no injury - can't quite explain it except maybe gonads take more impact than we give them credit for, as long as you don't cramp up. When your legs are spread wide - like when you are roundkicking at someones head, and they kick you in your exposed groin - THAT is a hard groin shot to take - I never could completely get rid of the crampy feeling on that one. I am not recommending training this way - a person could get hurt, serious injury - do not try this at home its risky and all the other disclaimers - but if you clinch your butt cheeks, breathe in a controlled and deep manner thinking good thoughts, and let someone kick you in the nuts - you are on your way.
Where did it start - Dr. Sacharnoski studied Gojo under Sekichi Toguchi for real. Although he was primarily studied Shorin Ryu. He said he was a law enforcement officer, and had been a LEO on many levels (county, state, Federal) - (some of his claims to this have been established and some have been called into question) - and he was also competing in some early NHB type events in the 1960's (but as someone who himself started training around 1971 or 1972, I can tell you many of the "point" sparring of the day had a fair amount of contact), but he in any event he says he combined his Goju training with some personal ideas to teach himself to stay calm and absorb impacts. He had studied some Nan Chuan (Kung Fu) and some of his methods are very reminiscent of Chinese Qigong, and some are very similar to Goju ryu - so I think his method is very eclectic. It also took things further than I have seen anyone else take them. I have seen guys do stuff that most people don't believe - but I know I saw them, hit them and felt them. Its waayyyyy crazy though.
All I know was I was a big wussie about getting hit, and his Combat Ki helped me overcome the fear of injury and getting hit to a large degree (not completely). It definately appears he fluffed his credentials to various degrees, but he is legitamately a 9th dan in Shorin ryu and was promoted by Shian Toma, and is recognized as such by Fusei Kisei. Also I know Hatsumi gave him a 10th dan in Ninjutsu, or whatever it is called. He claims many other ranks but do not know of a surety the veracity of them. But growing up, my main concern was being able to defend myself and fight - and I did not care whether someone had recieved their knowledge as enlightenment from a Tengu, learned it from Mr.Miyagi or made it up - as long as I could keep from getting my ass kicked and kick ass a little better - than it was all good with me.
Groin shots - not alot I can explain. There are some rather mystical "qigong" (Kijutsu) type breathing meditations with this but - first level: clinch your butt cheeks, let someone front kick you in the groin, continue diaphragmatic breathing. Thats it. I think alot of it is that when you diaphragmatic breathe you don't get the crampy sensation in your abdomen. Also, with the front kick I think their toe impacting your butt cheeks reduces the impact to your groin. But.... and this is a big but (pardon the pun)..... on more advanced levels you stay relaxed and even take punches to the groin, or throw a kick like a round kick at someone and let them counter kick you in the groin. Punches make REAL impact to the groin - I have taken an uppercut fist and felt my scrotum and gonads get stretched all the way back until they hit my anus - the sensation scared me, but I had no injury - can't quite explain it except maybe gonads take more impact than we give them credit for, as long as you don't cramp up. When your legs are spread wide - like when you are roundkicking at someones head, and they kick you in your exposed groin - THAT is a hard groin shot to take - I never could completely get rid of the crampy feeling on that one. I am not recommending training this way - a person could get hurt, serious injury - do not try this at home its risky and all the other disclaimers - but if you clinch your butt cheeks, breathe in a controlled and deep manner thinking good thoughts, and let someone kick you in the nuts - you are on your way.
Where did it start - Dr. Sacharnoski studied Gojo under Sekichi Toguchi for real. Although he was primarily studied Shorin Ryu. He said he was a law enforcement officer, and had been a LEO on many levels (county, state, Federal) - (some of his claims to this have been established and some have been called into question) - and he was also competing in some early NHB type events in the 1960's (but as someone who himself started training around 1971 or 1972, I can tell you many of the "point" sparring of the day had a fair amount of contact), but he in any event he says he combined his Goju training with some personal ideas to teach himself to stay calm and absorb impacts. He had studied some Nan Chuan (Kung Fu) and some of his methods are very reminiscent of Chinese Qigong, and some are very similar to Goju ryu - so I think his method is very eclectic. It also took things further than I have seen anyone else take them. I have seen guys do stuff that most people don't believe - but I know I saw them, hit them and felt them. Its waayyyyy crazy though.
All I know was I was a big wussie about getting hit, and his Combat Ki helped me overcome the fear of injury and getting hit to a large degree (not completely). It definately appears he fluffed his credentials to various degrees, but he is legitamately a 9th dan in Shorin ryu and was promoted by Shian Toma, and is recognized as such by Fusei Kisei. Also I know Hatsumi gave him a 10th dan in Ninjutsu, or whatever it is called. He claims many other ranks but do not know of a surety the veracity of them. But growing up, my main concern was being able to defend myself and fight - and I did not care whether someone had recieved their knowledge as enlightenment from a Tengu, learned it from Mr.Miyagi or made it up - as long as I could keep from getting my ass kicked and kick ass a little better - than it was all good with me.
Last edited by Bruise* Lee on Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Bruise* Lee
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:45 pm
Oh and the Uechi "big dawgs" (GEM, Van and Glasheen) have very kindly invited me to camp so they could kick me in the gonads....I mean learn Combat Ki - but I have been unable to attend as I made the mistake....I mean made the decision to go back to school at mid-life and my finances have been too meager to take time from working what I can or travel. I am hoping to do the camp before long and teach them, so I can kick them in the groin.... I mean help them learn to take groin shots. it is better to give than receive after all
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jorvik
That's cool to know 
It interests me when folks just go out and do their own thing and it turns out better than some inscrutable orientals stuff.
Imagine if a Japanese or Chinese had this stuff
....you'd never hear the end of it.
I know by looking closely at Martial arts I've come to learn about different styles and ways of doing things, some of the stuff that I know from Tai-chi and Wing-chun fit very,very well into Uechi......so well in fact you would be hard pressed to say that they weren't there originally.who knows? maybe they were
It interests me when folks just go out and do their own thing and it turns out better than some inscrutable orientals stuff.Imagine if a Japanese or Chinese had this stuff
....you'd never hear the end of it.I know by looking closely at Martial arts I've come to learn about different styles and ways of doing things, some of the stuff that I know from Tai-chi and Wing-chun fit very,very well into Uechi......so well in fact you would be hard pressed to say that they weren't there originally.who knows? maybe they were
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wes tasker
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Rick Wilson
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jorvik
...because then you would know my identity and I would have to kill you I think the beast way to condition shins is to have shin on shin contact or the heavy bag.
I have READ on a Muay thai forum a long time ago that conditioning your shins with a stick is not a good idea, something about causing some sort of damage to your bones. It was a long while back.
ANd i could be wrong.
I have READ on a Muay thai forum a long time ago that conditioning your shins with a stick is not a good idea, something about causing some sort of damage to your bones. It was a long while back.
ANd i could be wrong.
You don't want to tap your shins with a stick, so you're going to have someone kick them bone on bone?? I'd much rather go with the heavy bag or ball of foot taps.
All strengthening exercises, whether weights, bone building impact, or whatever, rely on creating small amounts of damage to encourage the body to respond by building the injured area up. You just want to have a cautious, balanced, and sane approach.
All strengthening exercises, whether weights, bone building impact, or whatever, rely on creating small amounts of damage to encourage the body to respond by building the injured area up. You just want to have a cautious, balanced, and sane approach.
--Ian
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jorvik
Ian
I pretty much agree with that, I just don't see the need for body conditioning to take all my class time, especially when I will never be able to withstand a sledgehammer to the temple .....and I will never be able to stop bullets 
Rick
I hate to say it but my Sanchin changes all the time ( I've known it for 30 years).so If I showed it, I would have to say what I was doing.
it wouldn't necessarily be self evident.
I am (When all else is said and done) an "internal stylist"
I pretty much agree with that, I just don't see the need for body conditioning to take all my class time, especially when I will never be able to withstand a sledgehammer to the temple
.....and I will never be able to stop bullets Rick
I hate to say it but my Sanchin changes all the time
( I've known it for 30 years).so If I showed it, I would have to say what I was doing.it wouldn't necessarily be self evident.
I am (When all else is said and done) an "internal stylist"
