Bruce Lee and Jim Maloney

[robb buckland]

[Bill Glasheen]

Self-deprecation aside, Rob, you've been amazingly perceptive and diplomatic in this thread. And in doing so, you've not-so-coincidentally been a friend of the truth. Why am I not surprised?

It is appreciated on many levels.

- Bill

P.S. Beware the phantom insult; just don't go there. There are many thoughtful and illuminating posts in this thread.

[MikeK]

From the picture it looks like Lee is landing a light side kick. I don't see a a trap unless it happens after the kick.

Mike

To start with, Bruce has full leg extension, and yet there's an inch or two of space in-between foot blade and body. Furthermore, Jimmy's body is markedly bladed. It is exactly as it should be.

I'd say from the picture that Mr. Maloney started out in that bladed stance, and if the kick missed it's because he shifted back. Why? Because if he was going from square posture on to the bladed posture in the picture he'd be shifting his left side into the kick and not away from it. Not good to do even in light sparring. It's just a guess based on a few years of practice and experience, and could be wrong.

In regards to Lee having full leg extension, a little trick that I learned from Thinh was the kick wasn't fully done until the support leg was brought into the picture. He'd get you with that little trick after you shifted back and though you were safe. On the flip side keeping more bend in the support leg was also a trick to allow for extension of the kicking leg but to keep the distance shortened when sparring. I don't know if Lee knew this or not or even if he's using it, but I'm just pointing it out.

[Van Canna]

Self-deprecation aside, Rob, you've been amazingly perceptive and diplomatic in this thread.

I agree, and he has been more than diplomatic in the past in shrugging off trolls.

There was Robb with a polite discussion...and the troll's response to Robb was 'Horse Hockey'...and then people wonder how they dig their own grave with their mouth and fingers.

Oh man...

[Van Canna]

And this from up north says it all

Van, I’m going to have to stop reading this thread. I’m laughing so hard I’m worried I may wet myself.

This Hawkins guy is like a kid in the sandbox, when he doesn’t get his way he takes his pail and shovel and heads for home screaming….I’m never going to play with you guys again!!!!


We saw the same thing on Rick’s forum. Rick tried to send him a student at one point as he knew a guy in NY looking for someone to train with. When he mentioned it to Jim and asked the address of his school he was met with resounding silence. Jim doesn’t have a school I suspect. I also suspect he is not actively training in WC.


Possibly he’s just another keyboard commando who used to train at one point and now no longer does. He counts his victories in keystrokes and not strikes landed these days. You know the type.

I’m amused at his claims of mastery of his system on one of the other threads. He was on record as not having completed the system, just like Bruce. Some times when you lie I guess it’s hard to keep track. I suspect.

What’s Jorvick going on about speaking ill of the dead? Did Jim fall on his sword? Or did you folks finally ban his trolling ass?

I laughed my ass off at Jorvicks comment, as he has had no problem dissing me on a venue I have no access to.

But it’s not okay to do so with the second coming of yip man, I guess the keyboard commandos have to stick together.

I didn’t appreciate Hawkins calling you a liar and I don’t appreciate Ray telling you how to act on your own forums, I’d punt the clowns!

Thanks....but as you can see things will never change...I guess it is a deadly compulsion...oh well. Best to you all.

[Bill Glasheen]

Mike

A few minutes with me is worth a thousand words. Van immediately picked up on it.

And FWIW, I choreographed a kicking form with 38 kicking techniques in it. It was part of the body of work that got me my renshi. I understand basic kicking - much of which I got in my very first (non-Uechi) martial art. What Bruce Lee is doing in that picture is one of his favorite kicks, and one of mine as well. I could rattle off the films and TV shows with him doing that.

That being said... there's nothing "random" about Jimmy's posture. Trust me on that. (Am I wrong, Van?)

I just got through getting Vicki through her sandan test. We worked many, many hours on both shoken sukuiage uke (in Kanchin kata and in Dan Kumite) and (for lack of a better label) hawk chases sparrow (in Kanchin kata and in Kyu kumite). Jimmy's position is classic, Mike. If you've never done these classic Uechi kick grabs, you wouldn't recognize it in a "defanged" manifestation.

Bob Campbell was a master at these. He competed in the All Okinawa Tournament, and lost in the finals (in overtime I believe) to the champion. And there's an interesting story about that match which I won't get into here. But anyhow... Bobby's modus operendum in the match was to dump someone and then hit them. Nobody could get close to him without ending up on the floor.

The first sparring match I ever had with Rad Smith (my first Uechi instructor), I spent most of the match on the floor. It is what a good Uechi practitioner learns to do. Sadly they don't allow most of these throws in "point" tournaments.

Come work out with us soon, Mike. Looking forward to it! And I promise it's not about trying to embarrass or dump you. We'll have some fun.

- Bill

[MikeK]

That being said... there's nothing "random" about Jimmy's posture. Trust me on that. (Am I wrong, Van?)

Never said it was. I was just passing along what it looked like to me based on doing a little sparring. Now I may be a beginner but I know one or two things to do with kicks and setting up a counter or two.

Come work out with us soon, Mike. Looking forward to it! And I promise it's not about trying to embarrass or dump you. We'll have some fun.

Thanks for the offer Bill, but why would I think you'd try to embarrass or dump me? No matter, it'll have to wait a while as I'm taking a hiatus to do some healing and take some vacation time.

[robb buckland]

Originally posted by MikeK

"From the picture it looks like Lee is landing a light side kick. I don't see a a trap unless it happens after the kick."

JUDGEMENT... this is the ability or capacity to make decisions or form an opinion objectively and wisely about the tactical and strategical aspects of a fighter.
One of the most difficult and critical judgments a fighter makes is to determine the exact distance within inches to position himself to maximize his chances of landing of an effective strike or in this case countering technique while allowing a 'safe enough ' range to defend against a fast attack........A fighter showing this type of judgement is what we refer to as a smart fighter.

[Bill Glasheen]

Nice segue, Robb!

Now I may be a beginner but I know one or two things to do with kicks and setting up a counter or two.

No doubt, Mike. However the two techniques I'm talking about are (I believe) unique to Uechi Ryu. I haven't seen them in other martial systems.

Here is one of the techniques, BTW, done in an obscenely athletic fashion by none other than the late Seiyu Shinjo. Do you have a kata where you do a technique like this?



Note the shoken fist in the rear. Compare it to the seiken fist on the other end of Bruce's foot.



Jimmy hasn't executed the scoop/lift (sukuiage) with the front arm. But he has set himself up to do it w/o being vulnerable to the kick.

There are some subtle aspects to the shoken in this original kata technique. I discussed this earlier in another thread. Sometimes a shoken is a poke/thrust, and sometimes it is a grab. When I do it, the rear arm is grabbing that foot. Grab a front kick in a shoken-like manner, and you get the Achilles tendon. That really gets their attention.

I make my own students do this very thing (with palm rather than fist) when teaching them how to do Dan Kumite number 2. That is a partner exercise to practice the original technique in Kanchin and Sanseiryu.

My practice drill is a "defanged" version of the kata technique. First you must learn how to position yourself, and how not to get hit. You create a small hole for the kick to come in. Then you add the icing on the cake.

Heal quickly and good luck on your issues. If nothing else, let's have some coffee some time soon.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Good points Bill…it is difficult to make people understand the unique approaches and variations, both offensive and defensive, of a good Uechi practitioner, especially the ones with ring fighting experience.

Like you my favorite fighting kicks were the side kick[front and rear]_ roundhouse_ straight back kick_ spinning back kick and front kick….the speed and power augmented by my soccer striker legs, that many times would lift people off the ground and send them sliding on the floor like I used to practice on Rabesa…my human Makiwara. LOL

Your 38 special for your Renshi was most excellent and it showed lots of dedicated practice.

But as you point out, as good as we all could kick…take Walter Mattson, for example, US top ten…nicknamed ‘The flying leatherneck’ ….our claim to fame from Uechi came from the shoken sukuiage uke we have in our system.

Our Sanseiryu, as one example, is beautiful in these ‘bladed executions’ where we blade and dump before returning to square, designed to dump people right over their heads.

So when you say that there is nothing random or posed about what Jimmy Maloney is doing/about to do to Lee’s leg…you are right on target.

Intercept as he blades, scoop and throw either bladed or returning to square…where by then the lifting, scooping action…will have completely defanged any additional attempt of the kicker to rotate any lines of direction and force into you, even as you should square.

It was here I believe where Maloney said last night he might have unbalanced Lee then held him up so he would not fall.

Remember Lee was a mere 127 lbs.

I can’t remember how many TKD competitors I landed on their butts with it, always falling upon disfavor of the TKD refs.

With the hawk chases sparrow [in Kanchin kata] I once lifted a Southwest killer fighter, wearing his black Gi, at the Henry Cho All American ….Madison Square Garden…clear off the ground dumping him on his back where he lay, unable to continue the match. He had come at me with a low front flying kick.

Again none of this is a diss on Bruce Lee. He was phenomenal fighter, but so was a Maloney, Campbell and others spawned by the Uechi system, a style that has the greatest center line protection of any style I ever witnessed in the bloody tournaments of the day.

[Bill Glasheen]

Your 38 special for your Renshi was most excellent and it showed lots of dedicated practice.

Complement appreciated, Van.

The purpose of me choreographing the form, however, was not to generate a dojo of bad-assed kickers. Athough... I serendipitously did so in a few cases. For instance when I stumbled on Bruce Hirabayashi (cousin of national champion Keith Hirabayashi) and he developed into a person who could sleep in splits and squat 400 lbs, well... Why not teach him a few kicks?

But...

The purpose of my form was to develop a handful of respectable kickers in my dojo so we could practice for the days we'd have to face the Jhoon Rhee people in local tournaments. As long as we knew what they did and practiced against it - and they didn't bother to do the opposite - then the effort served us well.

The same know-your-enemy strategy is what the BJJ Gracies used to dominate the early world of MMA. Eventually the strikers caught on and did their grappling homework. And now the playing field is level all over again.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

The purpose of my form was to develop a handful of respectable kickers in my dojo so we could practice for the days we'd have to face the Jhoon Rhee people in local tournaments. As long as we knew what they did and practiced against it - and they didn't bother to do the opposite - then the effort served us well.

Right on and it served your students well. We had to learn what we would face and could catch with our Uechi net.

I liken the Uechi fighter to a retiarius gladiator.

[Van Canna]

Seiyu Shinjo...as you know was known as the tiger of Okinawa.

Easy to see by his position in the photo. His shokens and the other Uechi's tiger's teeth were made of steel.

[robb buckland]

Originally posted by Van Canna

"Your 38 special for your Renshi was most excellent and it showed lots of dedicated practice. "

I would like to have seen that !!!!

[Van Canna]

It was good, Robb, because it was like a 'kick Kata' replete with balance and snapping power. a wonderful tool to add to the big three of Uechi.

We all had to learn and practice similar kicks in our tournament days in order to be able to deal with them in the ring or you'd end up with busted ribs or broken jaws.

But the way Bill put that together was excellent practice to program those kicks to respond automatically under the stress of a tough match.

We all liked it.