Bruce Lee and Jim Maloney

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Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:15 pm

Yes it does...will try tonight :lol:

Where exactly at the jaw line you contact with it?

I would think behind the ear.
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Postby Bill Glasheen » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:18 pm

Van Canna wrote:
I doubt it..though some of us " my Uechi dick is bigger than yours' club goers" would love to believe this and claim 'exemption' :lol:

I hear you, Van. And I shudder to think of how I might come across when I raise the BS flag. But ya gotta question something when an alternative scenario makes sense.

The way I look at it, we have lots of good people around us to share lots of good information. I keep my cup open and I share when others asked. And I try not to burn any bridges.

We're all learning, and NOBODY knows it all.

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Postby Bill Glasheen » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:22 pm

Van Canna wrote:Yes it does...will try tonight :lol:

Where exactly at the jaw line you contact with it?

I would think behind the ear.

No...

Imagine connecting with someone's jaw using a haymaker. It's that spot just to either side of the end of the jaw. The kyusho people have another TCM label for it. But here's where it is. See mental foramen.

Image

The goal is to get the head to snap around. And please, please don't do this to someone unless you really intend to take them out. It's not good for the brain.

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Lost in Translation ?

Postby robb buckland » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:25 pm

So we set 'im up with nice tight hook or slap to turn the chin ? :D
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Postby mhosea » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:27 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote:One wonders a lot of things, Van, like the Seisan bunkai "groin strikes" technique. Bullhockey! The groin strike isn't the technique, and the circle isn't a block. The groin strike is a setup, and the circle is a KO.


Probably you've described this KO before, and I surely do get that circle "blocks" are strikes, grappling, or clearing techniques (i.e., almost anything but blocks), but could you elaborate on this application a little bit for my benefit?
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Postby Bill Glasheen » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:40 pm

mhosea wrote:
Bill Glasheen wrote:One wonders a lot of things, Van, like the Seisan bunkai "groin strikes" technique. Bullhockey! The groin strike isn't the technique, and the circle isn't a block. The groin strike is a setup, and the circle is a KO.


Probably you've described this KO before, and I surely do get that circle "blocks" are strikes, grappling, or clearing techniques (i.e., almost anything but blocks), but could you elaborate on this application a little bit for my benefit?

Sure.

I won't say that the Seisan bunkai technique is "wrong." It works, and particularly if someone's grabbing you from behind. But it won't take them out.

Picture instead facing someone. What is the natural reaction when you get your testicles whacked? If you don't get hit hard enough to drop you (likely), it will make you bend forward. And oops - there it is!. They will be exposing the back of their neck (cervical spine) to you.

If it is the first groin strike - which is off the rear leg - what's your next move? You turn around and swing the arms, right? Well... embellish that a bit. All you need to do is turn 90 degrees and do a hammerhand to the back of their neck. My cousin who teaches jiujitsu in the Air Force likes this application.

If it the subsequent groin strikes - which are off the front leg - what's your next move? You circle, right? Well... put some whole-body caffeine in that circle, and lead with the shuto (hand blade). Connect the hand on the back of their neck. Some Russian martial artists prefer instead to connect with the elbow (pulling wauke down) instead of the hand blade. Whatever floats your boat.

If you prefer grappling to striking (such as Rory), then these are setups to headlocks. The circle goes around the neck, and you do your grappling thing.

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Postby MikeK » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:51 pm

Van Canna wrote:But then one wonders why the founding fathers show the move more as a strike than a grab. :?


What is the intended target and why, as shown in the execution of it by Master Uechi?

Did he ever talk about it?


Because a grab in a kata is boring.
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Postby Bill Glasheen » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:01 pm

MikeK wrote:
Van Canna wrote:But then one wonders why the founding fathers show the move more as a strike than a grab. :?


What is the intended target and why, as shown in the execution of it by Master Uechi?

Did he ever talk about it?

Because a grab in a kata is boring.

You may be on to something there, Mike.

My Green Beret instructor (judo/Kyokushinkai/Goju/aikido) had a very undramatic "setup" for the technique I just described to Mike above. Rather than do the "manly" think and whack their nuts as hard as you can, what also works is just to reach down and grab their package (gently or otherwise). Again... the natural response of most men is head forward, butt out. And there you go! You didn't even need to break a sweat to destroy their posture and expose the back of the neck.

That response you trigger is programmed in via the lower brain. Above all else, protect your ability to spread your DNA! Without that response, there would be a lot of nutless men walking around. 8O

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Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:22 pm

Good stuff...last night we were practicing the nut strike/grab from the front and follow up with what Bill points out...

Still, my first instinct there is a vicious head butt as his head comes slightly forward aiming at the bridge of the nose for an instant KO, Guaranteed with my soccer, striker background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF4iWIE77Ts
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Postby mhosea » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:35 pm

Van Canna wrote:Still, my first instinct there is a vicious head butt as his head comes slightly forward aiming at the bridge of the nose for an instant KO, Guaranteed with my soccer, striker background.


A brutal technique of undisputed power and effectiveness, to be sure, but head butts in kata are boring. ;)

We should practice a Seisan variant kata with groin grabs and head butts. I can picture it now...grab, head butt, step, grab, head butt, step... :D
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Postby Bill Glasheen » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:19 pm

Van

There is a variant on the technique in Kanshu kata just before the turn-circle-kick that you'd like. I picked it up from Jim Thompson, who of course picked it up in his decade of working out in Futenma.

Of course I've embellished it a bit more... :twisted:

It is a sequence with many possibilities. But it starts with a double nukite reach to the suprasternal notch. That triggers the gag reflex, which takes the starch out of them for just a bit.

What you do from there is hirakens in a scooping pull/push motion. The pull is the yin (grab); the push is the yang (thrust). There are other fun things you can do in there. But hidden in the motion is a possibility of head-butting them as you pull their temporarily loosened body into you.

This can also be done in the Seisan thrust/grab/carry.

Lots of places to do that. ;)

I tend to avoid the head butt techniques (practicing them against bags anyhow...) because of a study I read where they showed soccer players losing a few IQ points over time. It's not clear that it's headbutting per se, or maybe the high frequency of collisions that lead to concussions. In any case, I save the head butt for a special occasion. ;)

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Postby Bill Glasheen » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm

Van Canna wrote:
Still, my first instinct there is a vicious head butt...

Van

Did you ever read the book (or see the movie) The Hunt for Red October?

Seaman Jones: You see, sir, the SAPS software was originally written to look for seismic events. I think when it gets confused, it kind of runs home to Mama.

Capt. Bart Mancuso: I'm not following you, Jonesy.


***

Capt. Bart Mancuso: (after hearing Jones's findings) Have I got this straight, Jonesy? A $40 million computer tells you you're chasing an earthquake, but you don't believe, and you come up with this on your own?

Seaman Jones: Yes, sir.

Capt. Bart Mancuso: Including all the navigation maps?

Seaman Jones: Sir, I-I've got all the...

Capt. Bart Mancuso: Relax, Jonesy. You sold me.


I think we all do that to some extent; we draw from our strengths and our experience. And you know what? We should - as long as it helps us get the job done.

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Postby MikeK » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:41 pm

mhosea wrote:A brutal technique of undisputed power and effectiveness, to be sure, but head butts in kata are boring. ;)


And head butts look silly when you do them alone.

I do wonder if a lot of grappling techniques were "lost" in kata in order to make them more dynamic.
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Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:59 pm

:lol: Good stuff guys...Yup Bill...will 'try' those concepts.

True about 'ongoing concussions' of soccer players...the reason why the ball has changed to lighter and not abrasive material such as leather...which was all we had.

Image

Now this ball, when soaked with water on rainy days matches, when impacting your nogging as kicked at 80/90 MPH...left you stunned for a bit...

It would actually trigger my temper on the field and make me want to kick anyone and anything that got in my way.

When I power kicked that ball...lots of players would just duck :lol:
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Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:07 pm

Image

This modern ball is much safer :wink:
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