Uechiryu Jissen karate-do Butoku Renmei - Russia
01 Sanchin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrczvEGg1cY
02 Kansiwa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKZ9cIllGc
03 Kanshu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTZ_KKUYCJ4
04 Seichin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JvhWC2rlxY
05 Seisan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFQQrZ3HTws
06 Seiryu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFU2fWBL_3Y
07 kanchin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAA2n7jpQNE
08 Sanseiryu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cWkS2hRTNU
What the other guy is doing..........
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Victor Smith
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What the other guy is doing..........
Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu
bushi no te isshinryu
Well......... I'd kick his feet apart and have him bend
his knees and roll his hips more. He is not "in" sanchin,he
is just standing up. He reaches with his shoulders too much
when thrusting and his hands are too high. Has no clue on the
hawk chases sparrow movement and hasn't gotten past the
training wheels -post-in the wauke . He has power and focus
which would be improved with a little more effort. I'd work
on having him loosen up and not be so stiff and robotty. His
waukes could use some tweeking.
He looks strong for and older fellow and might have been
performing his "text book"version for filming purposes.
There,I feel better now!
his knees and roll his hips more. He is not "in" sanchin,he
is just standing up. He reaches with his shoulders too much
when thrusting and his hands are too high. Has no clue on the
hawk chases sparrow movement and hasn't gotten past the
training wheels -post-in the wauke . He has power and focus
which would be improved with a little more effort. I'd work
on having him loosen up and not be so stiff and robotty. His
waukes could use some tweeking.
He looks strong for and older fellow and might have been
performing his "text book"version for filming purposes.
There,I feel better now!
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I *really* hate critiquing someone's karate online - especially if it's a sincere effort. He put's his ass out there, and we get to be the peanut gallery. It makes me want to take a bath after having been involved.
Sooo.....
First thing I'll say is...
That is an awesome dojo. Oh my God... I hope he doesn't have termites where he lives.
Can you believe all the wood he has in that place? I'm betting he's been responsible for much of the creation of that room. I wonder how "live" that floor is. There's no telling given the way he moves. (Kata aren't very 3-dimensional).
Second...
It wasn't so long ago that most karate outside of Okinawa looked this way. I've been around far longer than I like to admit. The impression I get is that this dude has been isolated for a long time, and has done the best he can. I'd love to spend time working with him. I'll bet a good teacher could spend a month with him and improve his karate an order of magnitude. He's *really* good - in superficial ways. It's like someone who has watched films of people doing kata, and copied them without getting much in the way of feedback. What he eventually brewed is coffee, but of the 7-Eleven, decaffeinated variety.
What would make an interesting study is trying to figure out how this gentleman got his training. What was it George used to say? He's used the expression "time capsule Uechi" to describe errors and issues he's seen out in Podunk, USA that reflect bad karate of one of his own students done 4 decades back. That's actually what I see here (and the timing isn't that far off). So we have some first generation disciple of a very young George suddenly cast out into the middle of nowhere. And he teaches several generations of people. And what you have is a whole organization of very sincere students who reflect what YOU did back before you developed a much better understanding of things. It's like that photo someone took in 1974 of you doing something that - at the time - you thought was a great representation of a classic Uechi posture. And 36 years later, you wish you could find all those proliferating photos and burn them all.
I chuckled a bit listening to Leo critique his karate. At my level and with my experience, one of the things I do now is improve my skills as a teacher of teachers. A fun challenge for me is getting my students to wade through the details of imperfect form and see if they can reduce it all down to a couple of principles that a person doing kata has violated. If you spend too much time with such a student badgering him about all the details he got wrong, you end up frustrating him and turning bad to worse. But in this gentleman's case, there really are only 4 or so things he just doesn't get (yet) that muck up what could be a really decent karateka. That's not to say this guy wouldn't have to take years to fix those things. But if you got it, and you could communicate the opportunities to him, I'm betting that a day with such a fellow could send him back to Russia with everything he needs to be a credible and respectable Uechi force in his isolated place in the world. A rare few people are good enough to do that on the teaching end, and on the doing end as well.
- Bill
Sooo.....
First thing I'll say is...
That is an awesome dojo. Oh my God... I hope he doesn't have termites where he lives.
Can you believe all the wood he has in that place? I'm betting he's been responsible for much of the creation of that room. I wonder how "live" that floor is. There's no telling given the way he moves. (Kata aren't very 3-dimensional).Second...
It wasn't so long ago that most karate outside of Okinawa looked this way. I've been around far longer than I like to admit. The impression I get is that this dude has been isolated for a long time, and has done the best he can. I'd love to spend time working with him. I'll bet a good teacher could spend a month with him and improve his karate an order of magnitude. He's *really* good - in superficial ways. It's like someone who has watched films of people doing kata, and copied them without getting much in the way of feedback. What he eventually brewed is coffee, but of the 7-Eleven, decaffeinated variety.
What would make an interesting study is trying to figure out how this gentleman got his training. What was it George used to say? He's used the expression "time capsule Uechi" to describe errors and issues he's seen out in Podunk, USA that reflect bad karate of one of his own students done 4 decades back. That's actually what I see here (and the timing isn't that far off). So we have some first generation disciple of a very young George suddenly cast out into the middle of nowhere. And he teaches several generations of people. And what you have is a whole organization of very sincere students who reflect what YOU did back before you developed a much better understanding of things. It's like that photo someone took in 1974 of you doing something that - at the time - you thought was a great representation of a classic Uechi posture. And 36 years later, you wish you could find all those proliferating photos and burn them all.
I chuckled a bit listening to Leo critique his karate. At my level and with my experience, one of the things I do now is improve my skills as a teacher of teachers. A fun challenge for me is getting my students to wade through the details of imperfect form and see if they can reduce it all down to a couple of principles that a person doing kata has violated. If you spend too much time with such a student badgering him about all the details he got wrong, you end up frustrating him and turning bad to worse. But in this gentleman's case, there really are only 4 or so things he just doesn't get (yet) that muck up what could be a really decent karateka. That's not to say this guy wouldn't have to take years to fix those things. But if you got it, and you could communicate the opportunities to him, I'm betting that a day with such a fellow could send him back to Russia with everything he needs to be a credible and respectable Uechi force in his isolated place in the world. A rare few people are good enough to do that on the teaching end, and on the doing end as well.
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
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- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
This gets to what I mean when I talk about decaffeinated coffee. The more I use such analogies, the more I see how the granola-eater crowd got so wrapped up in the "c" word. Essentially his core is lifeless. All his karate is pretty much being done at the extremities.nosib wrote:
I'd kick his feet apart and have him bend
his knees and roll his hips more. He is not "in" sanchin,he
is just standing up.
***
He reaches with his shoulders too much when thrusting
***
He has power and focus
which would be improved with a little more effort. I'd work
on having him loosen up and not be so stiff and robotty.
So you take this guy, sit him down, and explain the concept. Often what I do is ask someone if there's a sport they like. Then I find YouTube clips of a well-known athlete in the sport doing his thing. Baseball is a sport I often go to, while basketball and football are also good ones. In those activities, core muscle movement is both big (delta L) and powerful (dL/dt). In Uechi we have a smaller delta L, while trying to preserve the dL/dt. All the core movement is there, only as little as possible. It isn't how far the muscles have traveled, but rather how quickly, powerfully, and in what sequence they do.
Once such a student finds this, he may be completely discouraged if he's never done sports. But if he has (and can relate to it) or if he has any "natural" athletes in his dojo, then he can see it, learn it, and grow it.
Sometimes all it takes is turning the person over to a personal trainer who does very classic whole-body, open-chain weight training like Olympic clean-and-jerks (no split-jumps in the jerk; use barbells or dumbbells) or Turkish stand-ups (with dumbbells). Believe it or not, I now have my students doing these in class - with light dumbbells. We also do Sanchin "jar training" with the same dumbbells. It doesn't take a lot of weight in the dojo to teach the concepts. They can up the weight on their own outside the dojo (when they have shoes on) - if they are serious.
There are lots of interesting opportunities here to communicate the geometry of the posture and how it interfaces with an uncooperative opponent. When the student gets it, lots of these problems self-correct.nosib wrote:
his hands are too high.
Would you believe that there's a whole generation of Uechika out there who think that Kanei Uechi's posting thing is "real Uechi" as opposed to the training wheels he meant them to be?nosib wrote:
hasn't gotten past the
training wheels -post-in the wauke .
Picture yourself in his dojo, ripping his hair out trying to keep folks' circles on a plane in front of them. He comes up with an exercise that fixes the circle-on-plane thing. And then folks mistake the moon for the finger pointing at it. Oy!
And then someone comes out with a movie (the original Karate Kid) where washing and waxing cars is a prelude to learning how to circle. Hand slaps forehead. People get it.
And they get that you don't have to face your opponent with a can of car wax and a rag.
And this extends backwards to being stuck in posting mode, and forwards to his fugly shoken sukuiage uke. It's all the same thing which starts well (hopefully) in Sanchin and brought forward to more complex manifestations of the same circles.nosib wrote:
Has no clue on the hawk chases sparrow movement
All it takes is showing the fellow the concept of a center line and the geometric reality of where the center of the circle should be. No, it's not your two shoulders, but instead one spot in the center of your body.
Done!
Would it take a long time to get him to the next level? It depends. In all my years of training, I had to learn via brief encounters with great karateka and my own attempt to pull all the material together. I might have learned faster if I was on Okinawa and knew Japanese. But the thing is, I got on a good path with very little help. Some students can do that. And truth be told, I've seen students studying with great teachers who don't realize what they have and don't savor what is given to them. It isn't the quantity of the interaction as much as it is the quality of the teaching and of the listening.
I think I could work with this guy by showing him just those 3 or 4 things, and go really far with him. Yea, I might spin off a couple dozens exercises for him to do to get the concepts. But it really does just boil down to just those few things.
Oh... and it wouldn't hurt if he lost some of that midsection. When it gets too big, you just can't pull off the core muscle thing. So that might be an extra item unless the core training took care of it - which it might. Less of that Russian food (I've been there; it's god-awful) and more smart living would help. If you can, with what is available in Moscow, Siberia, or some other god-awful corner of the cold world. Last time I was there, I had to drink Coke to keep from getting diarrhea from the water. And fresh fruits/vegetables were scarce.
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
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gmattson
- Site Admin
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Timecapsule Uechi. . .
Most of my "Virtual" dojo students fall into this category. Most appreciate my comments and suggestions. . . others get highly insulted . . . that I should question what I taught to his/her teacher 50 years ago! 
I do find that people who are active and still practicing their Uechi, regardless of what I consider to be "core" problems, are able to turn their Uechi around within a few months and all who actually stick it out, agree with their "new" Uechi and find their "new" Uechi to be much more fluid, powerful and meaningful. In other words, they now actually understand why they perform movements instead of "just doing it" as a ritual!
I do find that people who are active and still practicing their Uechi, regardless of what I consider to be "core" problems, are able to turn their Uechi around within a few months and all who actually stick it out, agree with their "new" Uechi and find their "new" Uechi to be much more fluid, powerful and meaningful. In other words, they now actually understand why they perform movements instead of "just doing it" as a ritual!
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
Stuck in 1974...you are so right,and that is where I would
be if not for the opportunity to work with some great teachers
over the years. Al Horton,my first instructor (trained with
Tommy on Oki. '58-'60). I trained through Walter M. for 8
years then Jim Thompson came to Michigan. 15 years with
Jim and now I'am on my own path to the top of the mountain.
I've bent G.E.M.'s ears a few times over the years as well as
most of the Okinawan instructors and was fortunate enough
to have Master Uechi all to myself for 3 weeks of his afternoon
classes.
The Russian fellow is coordinated and would probably adapt
quickly to some minor tweaks.Kata is one thing and this guy
could be "battling Boris" when it comes to kumite!
I would rather do his Uechi than no Uechi.
I feel critique is warranted when dealing with structure and
principle violations and not so when dealing with performance and interpretation...but! when someone performs a kata employing excessive heel
lifting and shuffle and foot skating....My pie hole starts
making noise. Dem Uechi feets gots to be on da floor fer
a solid stance...rooted punching power and so on and so on.
The simple things bug me,like not paying attention to detail.
be if not for the opportunity to work with some great teachers
over the years. Al Horton,my first instructor (trained with
Tommy on Oki. '58-'60). I trained through Walter M. for 8
years then Jim Thompson came to Michigan. 15 years with
Jim and now I'am on my own path to the top of the mountain.
I've bent G.E.M.'s ears a few times over the years as well as
most of the Okinawan instructors and was fortunate enough
to have Master Uechi all to myself for 3 weeks of his afternoon
classes.
The Russian fellow is coordinated and would probably adapt
quickly to some minor tweaks.Kata is one thing and this guy
could be "battling Boris" when it comes to kumite!
I would rather do his Uechi than no Uechi.
I feel critique is warranted when dealing with structure and
principle violations and not so when dealing with performance and interpretation...but! when someone performs a kata employing excessive heel
lifting and shuffle and foot skating....My pie hole starts
making noise. Dem Uechi feets gots to be on da floor fer
a solid stance...rooted punching power and so on and so on.
The simple things bug me,like not paying attention to detail.
