Ground Kicking

[Victor Smith]

Check out my blog at http://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/
for a review of ground kicking I teach.

The basics of which come from my original Isshinryu studies, and those studied shared by my friends.

Victor

[KentuckyUechi]

Interesting and informative. Thanks for sharing Victor.

[Van Canna]

Yes, thank you Victor...very informative.

I have always enjoyed practicing similar kicks for the old tournaments...but what you post is very detailed and useful in learning and practicing in the right way.

[Bill Glasheen]

That is a well-researched piece, Victor. I'm going to enjoy that!

- Bill

[Victor Smith]

Thanks for the comments.

It's interesting but I always practiced and taught ground kicking, though some of those techniques are for those who train up for them for years, because they really have to cherish meeting the ground to make them sing.

I obtained a copy of the Fukien book when it first came out and immediately saw the relevance but have only touched a small part of it.. always meeting the students needs first. (note today it's not available and have seen prices between $100. to $500. for a copy which I paid $28.00 for...hmmm)

But I really didn't associate with much Isshinryu before the internet (say 25 years into my own study) and then discovered most in Isshinryu didn't start the way I was trained.

IMO the basic drills are priceless just if one gets on the ground you don't want to be a simple target.

I only suggest my article compresses many years of study for a student, all subsidiary to main training, but ...

pleasantly,

[Bill Glasheen]

I'm a fan of the groundfighting game, Victor.

We work a bit with this in our black-belt-level yakusoku kumite (a.k.a. "Dan Kumite"). I have an embellished version of this I do in my dojo. I pick up where Okinawa just gets started and leaves off. There are parts of this on the ground where it may go in various directions based upon how one or the other partner behaves. And if either are careless, it can end with a "victorious" party. Given the semi-competitive nature of it, it's a lot of fun.

I also teach a lot of ukemi, and teach my people how to do it on hard floors. It makes my people very comfortable going to the floor, and affords them the ability to fight their way back up to their feet. When all is said and done, the full package is seamless.

As with aikido, I like people to be able to do many of their techniques standing, on the knees, and on their backs or bellies. All that matters is how one transfers the energy from ground to technique. As Einstein might say, it's all relative.

By the way, I had just posted the video of this fight sequence from Enter the Dragon. Here's the picture - from your article - where Bruce drops (back fall) to do a shomen geri to O'Hara's groin, as he's attempting to do a flying side kick.



Blow-up of above photo

Glenn was trying to argue that you couldn't do in-fighting on film because the audience wouldn't appreciated it. The Lee-O'Hara fight shows otherwise. The first 3 sequences are all straight-up Wing Chun. Then he and O'Hara get into a fun kicking game, with Bruce dropping to his shomen geri from the back.

The thread - Karate Kid - A major disappointment

The video I posted in the thread - Enter the Dragon - Fight with O'Hara

Check out 1:54-1:56. Those are the frame that match that photo above - albeit from another angle. I like that photo you found. It shows what the video does not. His form is impeccable - as is his timing. Textbook perfect back fall, which creates the foundation for the kick.

What's even more difficult is to do this without hurting his partner. I presume a padded groin cup was involved.

- Bill

[Glenn]

Glenn was trying to argue that you couldn't do in-fighting on film because the audience wouldn't appreciated it.

I didn't say "couldn't", only that it doesn't tend to translate as well for the camera/audience. And I didn't say Bruce didn't use Wing Chun, only that I doubt he would have been as successful an actor if that was all he had used. To which you said the audience was left wondering what he had done in the scene you refer to, which would seem to support my statement that it did not translate well. Sure they were impressed with the speed displayed, but how long would the audiences have remained interested if such techniques were all he had done? As I said, Bruce Lee recognized this:

For his role as an actor Bruce Lee was noted to say "what works for the street may not look good for the cinema" so Bruce trained high kicks and acrobatics to impress the audience

And a more recent similar comment from an MA talent agency website:

MYTH: Great fighters make the best screen fighters.
TRUTH: Not at all. Filming in front of the camera incorporates a host of other elements which are essential to getting a stellar finished product. The best “fighters” in a street fight for example will usually take the most effect[ive] moves to finish the fight quickly. Fact is, it’s not very pretty to look at.

What I think Bruce's strength was as an actor was that he could effectively use different fighting ranges pretty well on screen, and he mixed it up so that the audience wouldn't get bored. But not many MA actors seem to be able to duplicate that.

[Bill Glasheen]

Not much of what you posted is directly Bruce Lee's words, Glenn.

Nevertheless... The fight between Bruce and O'Hara looks quite real. It is after all a tournament. It does start with Bruce doing pure Wing Chun in the first 3 sequences.

Virtually all the techniques in that fight are techniques that my own UVa black belts have used in our intra-dojo tournaments (except the last killing blow). Why? Well they all are in my thirty-eight special form, and I trained most of my students from scratch. And two students (Bruce Hirabayashi and David Powell) had the ability to throw all of those as well and as strong as Bruce. (Both could fall asleep in lateral splits, and squat 3 to 4 hundred pounds.) Even the progression in that tournament fight was believable. First the fast techniques to stun O'Hara. Then the kicks to get on with the job of taking him out. That roundhouse that dropped O'Hara before he kills him is one Joey Pomfret has used to take out (KO) a few of his opponents in the ring. *

Even those leading spinning hook kicks, Glenn. I had an unusual team format in our every-semester intra-dojo tournament. Bruce and David often got paired up by their respective teams. And one time Bruce H almost took David's head off with a kick exactly like what Bruce L does twice in the movie.

The only difference of course is the degree to which bodies fly in the fight sequence. It's when they DON'T fly that bad things happen. The extreme responses seen in the clip actually are part of the good work of well-trained stunt men trying not to get hurt. And it does look good...

But the techniques still were all solid, and very much like what one might expect in a striker-style tournament where all parties got to warm up before entering the ring.

One more comment... That skipping yoko geri was something Bruce did extremely well. That isn't Hollywood showboating. He's been doing it well on screen for years in myriad parts. It's one Ray Berry also did well - partly by nature and partly by the nurture of his Master Oshima. And because of Ray's influence on me, it's one that my own students mastered.

- Bill

* Joe Pomfret was never a student of mine. He was however kind enough to do some BJJ with me one-on-one at a few camps. I can honestly say I enjoyed getting thrashed by him on the mat. Great teacher!

[Glenn]

Well the quotes I provided did talk about street-fighting techniques not making good cinema, they say nothing about tournament techniques. I would agree with you that many techniques successful in tournaments translate to the screen well, one reason why so many of the more successful MA actors are former tournament champions.