What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Van Canna » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:42 pm

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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Van Canna » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:46 pm

The authorities in Kenya, widely perceived as an oasis of peace and prosperity in a troubled region, are struggling to explain how a handful of Islamist extremists could lay siege to a shopping mall, then hold off security forces for days.
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby jorvik » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:20 pm

Islam is a brutal and barbaric religion. The PC crowd have tried to erase this from history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IsTLyjPzTU

after all the bloodshed mohamed would return to his 9 years old "wife" :roll:
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Bill Glasheen » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:29 pm

Van --- New York Times wrote:His latest film arrives at a moment when the videotaped murders of two journalists and an aid worker by a masked killer from the extremist group Islamic State in Iraq and Syria have raised pointed questions about whether media outlets should air — or viewers watch — footage of violent acts perpetrated in part to generate publicity.

In terms of potential victims watching the brutality of these thugs, I say go for it. If you're asking Nations to give up some treasure to fight terrorism, they need to see the faces of the monsters that they're being asked to help eliminate.

In terms of potentially recruiting more sick-minded followers to the twisted causes, I share the concern.

Van --- New York Times wrote:Time and again, across lines of race and class, people scooped up lost children, dragged wounded people from the line of fire, made room in hiding places until they were lying on top of one another. “We don’t know each other,” Valentine Kadzo says in the film. Ms. Kadzo hid with strangers in a tiny display stand for hours. “We all come from different communities, but at that time we were one. I’ll always treasure that moment because everyone was caring about the other.”

No doubt these instincts are - to some extent - programmed and genetically selected for. Interesting, no?

Makes you wonder how we martial arts instructors can dovetail our teaching in with what the human brain will instinctively want to do. This is for-real heroism. Some is Nurture, but some is Nature. Gotta go with the flow when teaching people what to do under extreme conditions.

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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Shinkawa » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:41 pm

jorvik wrote:Islam is a brutal and barbaric religion.


Life is complicated. There are 25 synagogues in Iran. There is a jewish member of parliament in Teheran. There is a jewish hospital in Iran. I do know a lot of muslims, who are tolerant, democrats and believe that men and women should be treated equally.
Of course, there are muslim terrorists. But there are also muslims who want to live in peace.

Islam is, what people make out of it. The same with christianity, atheism and so on...
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby jorvik » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:39 pm

Did you watch the video I posted ?
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Shinkawa » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:28 am

No, as i do not believe in people, telling us what THE Islam is. Islam is a religion with so many different directions (like Christianity too!), so you cannot tell people, what THE Islam is.

In Germany there are many different islamic organisations. Most of them are democratic and tolerant organisations. Some days ago there was a meeting of these organisations. I will translate some words of the head of one of the most important organisation:
"I am a Jew, if synagogues burn. I am a Christian, when Christians are persecuted. And I am a Muslim, if a mosque is damaged."

On the other hand, there are fanatics killing people.

Life is complicated. Be careful, when people do have simple solutions.
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby jorvik » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:02 am

If you are not prepared to look at the facts then you will never understand anything. The clip shows how islam spread, and it was pretty much in the manner that isis is spreading today. Either accept islam or be decapitated.
In the uk there has been a scandal involving muslim men raping young girls, the authorities were not prepared to look at it at the time because it involved a "minority". Now it has resulted in some high level resignations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28964072

I think the biggest cancer in Europe is political correctness.
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Bill Glasheen » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:29 pm

"The truth" is there in-between the points of view being expressed.

Here's something we need to be careful about when discussing such subjects.

paint with a broad brush - Verb (idiomatic) To describe a class of objects or a kind of phenomenon in general terms, without specific details and without attention to individual variations.

To say all Christians believe the earth is 2000 years old is to ignore the fact that Notre Dame and Duke Universities are two of the finest academic institutions in the country. Duke in particular has one of the finest medical institutions on the east coast. Meanwhile Notre Dame has a Catholic affiliation, and Duke has a decidedly Christian bent.

Yes, religions can be cursed with anachronistic teachings, and overly literal interpretations of their Good Book. Yes, the "politically correct" can create an environment of fear where people are afraid to tell the king that he wears no clothes.

Those who know me know that I'm no fan of Obama. A common tactic of Obama supporters was to call you racist if you disagreed with his politics. "Pulling the race card" worked pretty well to intimidate and to squelch criticism in polite company and in public media.

I highly recommend people read this book.

Image

This is the bible of many extreme liberals who are "friends of Barack." Obama himself has been influenced by this.

What I'm saying - and the book teaches - is that it's about the *behavior* of the people you're working with. If racism is taboo and someone says I'm a fiscal conservative because I'm a middle-aged white male, well guess what I do? I pull the racism, sexism (mysandry) and ageism card in a New York second. I publically excoriate the individual so that they never, ever see me by the color of my skin, my gender, or my age. Basically I hold them to their own professed rules.

Same with these sociopaths in the Middle East who are beheading their captives, gang-raping women, and selling female children as wives to their loyal fighters. Call it for what it is - pure evil. B1tch-slap them with the teachings of the Koran.

As for telling me I need to convert to their faith, well I say come and get me. :twisted:

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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Shinkawa » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:55 pm

jorvik wrote:If you are not prepared to look at the facts then you will never understand anything.

:-)
I think, you have understood my opinion. I have understood yours.
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Van Canna » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:16 pm

http://blog.suarezinternational.com/201 ... Br2Nyx0yg1

Recently in the New York Times, author Roger Cohen wrote "The Great Unraveling". In the article (linked for you guys to enjoy), Cohen wrings his hands about the same goings on that have taken place among men since the days of Hamurabi.

Nothing new here folks...same old problem. The only thing that has changed is that modern industrialized nations like to meddle and fix other people's problems. They like to meddle because its good for business. But that is for another discussion.

Cohen writes, "The most powerful nation on earth was tired of far-flung wars......An ungrateful world could damn well police itself. The nation had bridges to build and education systems to fix."

Yes, we are in fact tired...and tired of the government forcing us to pay for those far flung wars and getting nothing at all in return. If on the other hand, America owned Iraq's oil fields for bringing them "democracy" and "freedom" that would be one thing...but the American people got, well, nothing. It is one thing to get paid for the good fight...it is another to pay for it yourself and then go home empty handed with a fat lip.

And now we have ISIS. Modernized, intelligent, well funded, and unlike their predecessors, up on the ways of the world in 2014. Please don't tell me that the powers that be didn't see this coming. Oh wait...maybe they didn't since they were far too busy spying on Angela Merkel and the rest of us. If it is all seeming like a comedy of errors it is because it is.

I have no direct connection to the Intelligence world, nor am I privy to any inside information. But I am a student of history and we have seen this all before. Times do not repeat themselves, but the same things that motivated Lyndon Johnson motivate those in his shoes today.

So what do I think will happen -

1). The coalition (whoever that is made up of will be paid for and populated by Americans in spite of what anyone in Washington says) will land at ground zero...kill a few bad guys and make a big entrance. ISIS is not as stupid as Al Queda and the fight will go on for a long time. You see...Americans are the product of the "Permission Culture". They can't do this and they can't do that...and if they do, they will be prosecuted. Can you imagine? A soldier being prosecuted for killing an enemy...what was that word? Inconceivable!

ISIS on the other hand, has no such limits and they have many Americans and Brits and others in their ranks who know all too well the ROE of the coalition. All they have to do is go where they will not be followed.

I could be wrong and the "boots on the ground" will simply be told to kill them all by any means possible...but I doubt it.

2). Lind was correct in his characterization of the Fourth Generation War where the adversaries are "non-state" actors. All modern nations are fixated on "state". They are shocked when they see British-born, or American-born terrorists, as if that was unthinkable.

One of the tenets of 4GW is that national status is irrelevant, loyalties being given to groups with which the non-state actor identifies with. I suspect there are plenty of ISIS operators from free egalitarian nations that are American, British, Australian and God knows what else. That any nation's leader is shocked at this smacks of sheer ignorance.

I would expect to see plenty of ISIS funded terror activity here in the USA and in the west. Oh, I am sure the main stream media will demonstrate incredible degrees of twister yoga contortions to avoid saying the "I" word, or the "T" word, but calling it a piece of crap a chocolate cake will not change the taste one bit.

As the pressure on ISIS increases "there", expect the American ISIS guys to leave that theatre for a softer one. Again...I could be totally wrong, but I don't think I am.

Solution?

You want a solution?

Well, the best one begins with distance from disorder and ends in a place Americans will not want to go. The focus of war, if we are to have one, must be to find the enemy, kill him and anyone with him, then either take all his stuff, or make those whose asses we saved (again) pay through the nose for their safety and freedom.

Then, organize the nation's internal laws so that we have true distance from disorder. Until that happens I suspect as a nation, the USA will be playing "world's hall monitor" for a very long time.

You don't think the first solution will work and want another solution? Every ISIS-sponsored terrorist that attempts to execute something in the USA gets shot dead by someone who happens to be at ground zero.

I don't have much expectation the previous solution will be implemented by the power mongers either...but the second solution is in every person's capabilities. Stay ready my friends...I think the future will be interesting.
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Bill Glasheen » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:00 pm

A rose by any other name smells just as sweet.

I thought of that classic line from Romeo and Juliet after reading this.
I would expect to see plenty of ISIS funded terror activity here in the USA and in the west. Oh, I am sure the main stream media will demonstrate incredible degrees of twister yoga contortions to avoid saying the "I" word, or the "T" word, but calling it a piece of crap a chocolate cake will not change the taste one bit.

;-)

This is why the second ammendment is so important.
You don't think the first solution will work and want another solution? Every ISIS-sponsored terrorist that attempts to execute something in the USA gets shot dead by someone who happens to be at ground zero.

The mere deterrence effect of citizens carrying concealed is worth the price of the freedoms we have.

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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby jorvik » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:48 pm

Quote
"I would expect to see plenty of ISIS funded terror activity here in the USA and in the west. Oh, I am sure the main stream media will demonstrate incredible degrees of twister yoga contortions to avoid saying the "I" word, or the "T" word, but calling it a piece of crap a chocolate cake will not change the taste one bit.

As the pressure on ISIS increases "there", expect the American ISIS guys to leave that theatre for a softer one. Again...I could be totally wrong, but I don't think I am."

I don't believe that at all. The US is quite safe as is the UK. Isis is not a major threat to anyone they are made up from alqaeda or the older ones from the mujah hadin and they could have attacked the US after the invasion of Afghanistn,Iraq, Libya, but they didn't.America is policing the world for her own benefit.I think it would be great if the US stopped sending $6 billion to israel every year or the $100 million to the syrian rebels..........but they need to prop up the "petro" dollar the US is $17 trillion in debt and the only real source of income is the fact that people have to pay for petrol/gas in dollars when that ends.and looking at the agreements being made between the Chinese and the Russians ( and even dare I say it the brits) I think that could be sooner than later
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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Bill Glasheen » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:49 pm

jorvik wrote:The US is quite safe as is the UK. Isis is not a major threat to anyone they are made up from alqaeda or the older ones from the mujah hadin


Yea, right. This is what happened when we ignored these people in Afghanistan.

Image

Oops!

And then there's this...

Wall Street Journal wrote:Australia Foils Alleged Beheading Plot Linked to Islamic State
Sydney, Brisbane Raids Lead to Arrests of People With Suspected Ties to Islamic State
By ROB TAYLOR CONNECT
Updated Sept. 18, 2014 7:51 a.m. ET

CANBERRA, Australia—Police carried out early morning raids in two major Australian cities, including Sydney, in a strike aimed at disrupting what they said were plans by local Islamic State supporters to behead members of the public.

Almost 900 state and national police, as well as domestic-spy-agency officers, were involved in the counterterrorism raids, to prevent what Prime Minister Tony Abbott dubbed "demonstration killings," a reference to their intended impact of showing the reach of Islamic State beyond the Middle East.


Oops!

I choose not to respond to the rest of your post.

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Re: What to do about ISIS (a.k.a. ISIL, Islamic State)

Postby Van Canna » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:16 pm

http://tinyurl.com/osqfsbm

Wonder what's going thru the head of the 'be be-headed' in the photo.
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