Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

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David Elkins
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by David Elkins »

Bill Sensei,

You were fortunate to have an opportunity to work with Master Thompson, as you say he's great.

The person in the old video is I believe, Uehara Sensei, one of Kanbun Sensei's original students. Doesn't Toyama Sensei open his Sanseiryu similarly? Makes you think, no?

------------------
Good training,
David
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Bill Glasheen
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Bill Glasheen »

David

No, I believe the gentleman's name started with a "T". And the kata which started with the wrist movements was seisan - not sanseiryu.

As for Toyama sensei....don't know. Maybe someone can write Gordi-san and ask.

-- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Bill Glasheen »

This past weekend we had the pleasure of working with Sensei Jim Thompson at John Carria's dojo in Northern Virginia. There were a number of schools that participated, but Bob Kaiser's (D.C.) and Ernie Sumpter's (Philadelphia) dojos had remarkably strong showings. We even had renshi Ihor ?? that participated from the Rochester, New York area. This was also a great opportunity for me to reestablish bonds with former UVa Uechika that are now proud members of Carria's dojo since graduating and moving to the beltway area.

Sensei Thompson had a smattering of little gems to share with the group. He kindly came up to me early and asked what I thought we should cover given the diverse range of experience in the group. What he ended up doing is going through the kata from sanchin through sanseiryu, and then pause inbetween to share applications, anecdotes, and training tips. He even told stories about "the old days" of his decade-long training in the Futenma dojo back when he and all the present-day Okinawan senior seniors were mere "minnows" working together with Jim in Uechi Kanei's dojo.

There were so many little points shared that I will not be able to do the visit justice. However each person walks away with a perspective. Since most were silent when Thompson sensei asked if there were any questions - and I rarely miss such an opportunity to grill the senior senior - then I think I have a few good ones to share.

First of all, Jim spent quite a bit of time showing targeting applications for Uechi techniques. He didn't really speak to any particular paradigms when doing such. Consequently I often asked him about specific things when considering the western medical perspective, and he often had a good response for my questions. A lot of his targeting invovled setups and even combinations on the attacking arm, with occational diversions to targets on the torso around the liver area (also a meridian line). One attacking sequence involved the use of a koken under the arm near the arm pit - a nasty shot to a known nerve bundle. This he followed up with a rather unique grappling technique that set the person up for the seisan knee strike to the face.

A lot of the partner work also involved what I would have to describe as extremely practical and yet unique "defensive" applications of movements in our system. Some of it involved attacking arm manipulations that were soft and fast. One in particular involved the use of an elbow technique (like from kanshiwa) to block and throw a roundhouse kick. Really! Very fast and practical.

I was particularly impressed that Sensei Thompson had unique grappling applications to movements that many of us think to be mere blocks. One in particular involved a very clever use of the gedan barai. There I think sensei Thompson is showing his exposure to other styles like Shorin ryu and jiujitsu.

At one point we (at my request) were reviewing good targets for the hiraken to the face and neck area. For the most part Jim used standard anatomy terms (common language) to describe his targets. At one point he mentioned the word "chi", but then looked up and gave an elfish grin. I found this to be particularly fascinating, because it was Lostrito sensei who told me of working with Jim on "demos" that involved a controling of the partner in a manner similar to what sifu Mooney has claimed. Rik took those demos as reason to delve into the art (?) of therapeutic touch. He recently had a seminar at his home taught by one of the founders of this healing modality. I - on the other hand - saw the cigar as just a cigar. Fascinating....

Sensei Thompson also spent quite a bit of time showing what I will just have to describe as "tricks" in changing your reach in sanchin just by how you orient the rotational position of your feet. What can I say...you have to watch these to believe them. These were truly remarkable demonstrations. I don't claim to understand everything he did (and he did only a minimum amount of explaining), but it really piqued my interest.

Finally, I got a fairly good dialogue going on about kanchin kata. My study of the Fuzhou superinpei has made me look real hard at possible unique techniques in the "bridge" kata of Uechi ryu. I have this theory that - given we can believe Toyama sensei when he says there definitely was a fourth kata - that some of the salient and worthwhile reminants of that form might be found in unique techniques taught in these bridge kata and in the hojoundo. These might be techniques that Kanbun taught his son, and Kanei chose to incorporate into more palitable exercises (the Fuzhou superinpei is a bitch to practice). Well....I asked Jim about the koi no shippo tate uchi and yoko uchi in kanchin, as well as the tenshin stepping. I asked Jim whether or not he saw the elemets of those movements in The Big Three; I did not tell him the reason for my query. I got a very good long pause from Jim, and no firm answer on the tenshin question. However....he did bring up a fascinating point that is in itself interesting, regardless of your reasons for understanding the origins of these techniques.

Jim related that - on some versions of the tape that commemorates Kanbun's 33rd anniversary of his passing - there is an Okinawan with a very big belly (couldn't remember the name) who does what Jim called an "old" version of seisan. As Jim relates it, the gentleman starts his kata off by first doing the koi no shippo tate uchi on one arm, and then steps and does it on the other arm. He would then continue into the double ridge hand strike and the rest of the form. Fascinating....

One final comment. While Jim is one of the more powerful and capable American "grandfathers" (both literally and figuratively) of our style, he is also one of the most gentle, kind, and apolitical. He is an absolute joy to work with - another American Uechi icon.

-- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 05-20-99).]
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Jackie Olsen
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Jackie Olsen »

Bill,

It is a privilege, indeed, to work with Sensei Thompson. His techniques embody "soft power." When I train with him, I learn so much with his gift to help others to get a 180 viewing point on application of kata and kumite. Man, he is fast and smooth!

I know how you feel re the question asking ... I always think of the questions AFTER the training.

Glad you had an opportunity to train with him.

Jackie
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Drew Doolin
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Drew Doolin »

Bill,
I just returned from Thailand, but will see Gordi-San this week at class; I will print this thread and see what he can tell us.

Regards
D2
mikemurphy
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by mikemurphy »

Bill-san,

Not having all that experience with working with Thompson sensei, I must concur with you on your assessment of him. I worked with him as much as possible at last year's summer camp as well as the last time he came up this way to visit Neves sensei. He is extraordinary indeed. Quiet and unassuming from what I gather and always ready with a smile to even the most inane question. I hope he is coming back this year to the camp. Does anyone know?

Yours in budo,

Mike
Allen M.

Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Allen M. »

I was at Sensei Thompson's dojo in Kalamazoo during the time-frame a little before and after the months when he first purchased it. Chong was pregnant then, so I had to carefully choose times for the 125-mile trek to his dojo.

In those days I had good legs and remember that his 3-1/2 hour Sunday classes were very tough, grueling, and sweat-producing. Gentle mannered an instructor he was, he knew how to squeeze an orange.

Since then, and meeting with him only several times through the years, I have always held Sensei Thompson in the highest esteem and consider him one of the best anyone could ever train under.


------------------
Allen - [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> - <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]
Lori
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Lori »

Sensei Thompson certainly is all of the excellent things mentioned in this thread - and we're going to be lucky enough to have him visit next month for two days of seminars - and a dan promotional. If anyone wants another chance to work with him and can make it to the Central Florida area - email me and we'll hook you up.

------------------
Peace,
Lori
email: <A HREF="mailto:lori_san@hotmail.com">lori_san@hotmail.com</A>
website: www.mindspring.com/~uechi-ryu


[This message has been edited by Lori (edited 05-21-99).]
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Van Canna
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Van Canna »

What has always impressed me About Thompson sensei in addition to his unquestioned old world no-nonsense karate skills , is the fact that when he attends a summer camp or gathering , he diligently participates in and encourages and supports other seminar teachers in a very humble manner , unlike most other ' masters' with their noses up in the air smug in their self importance ! I recall Tomoyose sensei telling me at one of the summer camps of the eighties , that Thompson Sensei was one of the most respected American practitioners by his Okinawan peers and the Uechi family ! Always soft spoken and with a ready smile !

------------------
Van Canna
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Drew Doolin
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Drew Doolin »

Bill, et al:
Sorry for the long post to follow, but I felt the information was too rich not to share it as I received it from Gordi-San. By the way, anyone desiring more information can email Gordi at breyettg@ii-okinawa.ne.jp
I am perfectly happy to pass along any requests to him, but he is the best direct source of information, paticularly as it pertains to TOYAMA Sensei. Here's his response to the thread I sent him.

Drew-san,

Hello -- and welcome home!

Interesting thread -- thanks for sending it. I do not know Thompson
Sensei well, save for one very long and rewarding conversation we had at
the Tiki (Main Street USA) on KAB some years ago. He didn’t even
mention that he had just tested for 8th Dan -- he is a model of modesty
and quietude. The descriptions of him are well-deserved and solidly
justified.

I think there is a confusion over the films mentioned. The older
black-and-white film with the... um, rather interesting man with the big
belly who performs Sesan -- is the 25th Anniversary Commemorative
Demonstration, filmed by Charles Earle Sensei, in 1973 (in Naha, I
think). That film does not feature TOYAMA Sensei. The 33rd Anniversary
Demo, filmed in 1981 (I think), does show TOYAMA Sensei performing
Sandairu (Sanseru). First all the junior and lower rank practitioners,
visitors and groups. then the Senior Students in kojin no kata
(individual performance). Then guest Masters of different systems, and
finally the Uechi Family members (Kanmei Sensei first, followed last by
his father Kanei Sensei). This is the traditional order of events at
such demonstrations. TOYAMA Sensei performed last of all the Senior
students as befits his position of being the last active student of
Kanbun Sensei.

The gentleman in the 25th performing Sesan is FURUGEN Soru Sensei. He
was a student of Kanei Sensei fro about three years in the early
1940’s. When Kanei Sensei opened his dojo in Osaka, he moved it very
shortly after to Hyoogo -- a small suburb just on the northern edge of
Osaka, and further away from Wakayama. FURUGEN Sensei was one of the
new students there -- his photo is in the Hyoogo Dojo picture along with
UECHI Kanei Sensei (his teacher) on page 487 (center front row standing,
black shorts). A newer photo is shown on the following page (488, top
center). He is listed in the kanji paragraph on that page as one of the
three remaining students of Kanei Sensei’s Hyoogo Dojo.

I asked Kanei Sensei once about FURUGEN Sensei’s opening of Sesan and
his performance (after Kanei Sensei gave me a tape with that -- and
several other film treasures -- on it, video’d off a movie screen in the
Futenma Dojo). Through a translator, Kanei Sensei laughingly told me
that his father never taught kata like that, also why FURUGEN Sensei
opened and performed in that manner. In a discussion I had a few years
back with a prominent American instructor, I learned he asked and got
much the same response (san laughter). However, the reason for opening
was not given -- and so I told the mentioned American teacher. He
recalled that he heard some children experience the same condition as...
um... a correctable problem. It was a bit of a surprise to find that it
was a practiced karate technique, but a description of it can be found
in the Bubishi, in the old Kyohon (which also includes a copy of the
Bubishi similar to one Kanbun Sensei brought back from China) and in
another reference book on history, philosophy, and technique of Kung
Fu. When I see you face-to-face this week, I will show you the
references...

But not the technique, please...

When the Okinawans returned to their homes after the war, FURUGEN Sensei
visited the Ginowan (and Futenma) dojo occasionally, but did not stay
for in-depth study. he did pick up the moves for Kanshiwa and Kanshabu
(Kanshuu) but in a cursory manner. A film in my possession taken at his
branch dojo in Osaka (the Tomoe Kai Dojo) shows a striking departure
from the UechiRyu FURUGEN Sensei learned in his scant 3 years of study
with Kanei Sensei. Demonstrated are 2 or 3 different versions of what
MIGHT have been a Uechi-style Sanchin once, a barely-recognizable
Kanshiwa, and a less-recognizable Kanshabu (Kanshuu). the Sesan is
performed almost exactly like FURUGEN Sensei’s 1972 demonstration, and
no other kata are performed (he didn’t learn any others).

The photo section of UECHI Kanbun Sensei’s students (beginning on page
807 of the 1977 Kyohon) does not include FURUGEN Sensei, but does show
TOYAMA Sensei (top center, page 809). FURUGEN Sensei was operating a
UechiRyu Dojo in Urasoe at the time of publication, see page 860 (top
photo). The last line of kanji under his information accompanying that
photo shows plainly the name of his teacher -- UECHI Kanei Sensei. Not
Kanbun Sensei.

FURUGEN Sensei still lives in Urasoe, but his dojo has long since
closed. The Osaka Dojo is still open, but the system is almost
unrecognizable now. Interesting.

TOYAMA Sensei opens his kata as did Kanbun Sensei at the demo he and his
students performed in the Nagoya compound for the Okinawans awaiting
transport home, in 1946. There is a real physical purpose to each move
-- after considerable study of this opening, I teach it as “Stringing
the Bow”. I will teach it to you this week, but it may be used only for
Sandairu.

By the way, in the old Kyohon, I find dozens of photos of TOYAMA Sensei,
spanning from his Wakayama Dojo days to the book publication date. It
is he who performs the Sesan Bunkai with TAKARA Sensei. In almost every
group photo after 1946, TOYAMA Sensei is seen standing next to or
closeby UECHI Kanei Sensei. On page 553 he appears in the 1950 group
shot (in a field on Okinawa) with a very young TOMOYOSE Ryuku Sensei...
On page 457, his photo appears next to SHINJO Seiyu Sensei’s, and the
kanji paragraph describes him and SHINJO Sensei as being the last and
greatest of the Wakayama Dojo students.

All of this goes into the history -- still in the works. I am arranging
for interviews with the many remaining students of UECHI Kanbun Sensei
-- already I have interviewed the son of SHIMABUKURO Natsukichi Sensei,
who is still alive in a nursing home on Okinawa. Also, TOYAMA Sensei’s
older brother Seitoku (who was a 5th Dan in 1977 when Sensei was a 8th
Dan), and whose picture also appears in the Wakayama Dojo lineup and
with Kanbun Sensei’s students on page 808), and the others on whom I
have friendly leads. These -- and some previously-unseen photos, if I
can secure them -- will all g into the final compilation. God knows
when it will be finished -- the research into the life and times of
UECHI Kanbun Sensei seems to be endless!

Well, gotta run. Please let me know if this answers your questions,
Drew. See you in class at Zakimi!

laters,

Gordi
Gene DeMambro
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Gene DeMambro »

Holy Moley! What a post! I had a difficult time keeping names straight!

Ok, to the question at hand...

Here we have, for all posterity, recorded and revered as the "old" way doing seisan a..mistake! This msitake is performed by children, no less. However, someone videotaped and packaged it. Now, all of a sudden, people take it as Gospel.

It somewhat makes me wonder what other "mistakes" are recorded or passed down from generation to generation?

Did Kanei Uechi, Ryuyo Tomoyose, Sensei Toyama and others have little ideosynchrisies (sp) or "defects" in their form?

Ddd Kanbum Uechi have defects in his form that were copied by his students and passed down?

I wonder what Kanbum Uechi would say if he came down from the heavens and saw us all practicing our/his art. Would he say, "Cool! That's exactly how you are supposed to do it". How 'bout, "...you all got it wrong. Here, let me show you.". How 'bout something in the middle.

Gene
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Bill Glasheen
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Bill Glasheen »

All good questions. My guess is that there is no way to know the "truth".

A mistake? Hmmm.... I think that is too cavalier a point of view. Spontaneous generation of koi no shippo uchi? I don't think so. Furugen picked it up from somewhere/someone. And this "mistake" was obviously good enough to be picked up as a salient move (slightly modified) in Kanchin kata.

What would Kanbun say? How about this: Chinese forms were never meant to be that uniform. That, sir, is a distinct possibility, and a potential reason for variability in the past.

- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 05-25-99).]
Gene DeMambro
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Gene DeMambro »

Notice I put "mistake" is quotations. I guess I was stating the obvious - that these things, like evolution, get passed down from generation to generation. Then all of a sudden you look around and THINGS CHANGED! Development-yes, differing interpretations-yes, radical departures from generation to generation-it happens, but I hope it happens for the better, not to our detriment.

Notice what Gordi Breyette said about the Osaka (I think) dojo - the syle is unrecognizable now. Yes, interesting indeed!

I have another question, completely unrelated to the subject at hand...

I noticed in Gordi Breyette's post that he uses different names for kata. Does anyone know why?

Gene
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Drew Doolin
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by Drew Doolin »

Gene, et al;
Once again, here's Gordi-San's email address: <A HREF="mailto:breyettg@ii-okinawa.ne.jp">breyettg@ii-okinawa.ne.jp</A>

Contact him directly if you have questions. You will be well received, and get the answers you are looking for. Why ask "anyone" else to explain something Gordi wrote?

D2

[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited 05-27-99).]
mikemurphy
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Thompson-sensei's Mid-Atlantic visit

Post by mikemurphy »

To all of youz,

Just wondering, but does anyone know where I can get a copy of the 25th Aniversary Commen. tape of Charles Earle that Gordi-san mentioned in his letter? I have the 33rd aniversary tape. I would love to see the seisan that everyone is talking about.

yours in budo,

mike
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