Your help, please!

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Shelly King

Your help, please!

Post by Shelly King »

Hi Gary

Hurry up with catching up on the forum, have missed your topics.

I'll start, as probably one of the newest members on the forum (and Uechi), sparring was the one thing in class I really wasn't expecting to like. Mostly, just being nervous about getting hurt or embarrassed. Now, I really look forward to it. Got to love the adrenaline rush. Prefer full sparring to sparring drills. And nothing is ever boring.

------------------
Shelly
gjkhoury
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Your help, please!

Post by gjkhoury »

Hey, gang!

This is a re-post of a new topic on my "Tourny Forum". With my recent absence, activity there has really slowed. Forgive me if I piggyback the always busy grandfather of these Forums, and ride his coattails to posting success! Anyway. . .

Slowly but surely I'm trying to regain control of the reigns at home, here on the Forums, on my web site and on my life!

The past 2 months have been a whirlwind of activity with summer activities, guests from Japan and the construction of our beautiful, BRAND NEW dojo! Yes, the new Khoury's Karate Academy is complete!

Please come and visit us SOON!

Well, that aside, I have been conducting mini-surveys of our members and of martial artists everywhere. My theory? If I can determine what aspects of training are most challenging/satisfying, I can "enhance" the martial experience by giving people more of what they want while weaving in all of the skills that students need. Make sense?

To this end, I have a question for the group: What is it about sparring (or any other aspect of your martial training) that you find most rewarding, frightening, puzzling, and/or boring?

Knowing this will help me continue to refine what I believe to be the area's finest fighting program. From there, we hope to "revamp" our entire curriculum as well as the way it is being introduced.

Your input is both important and appreciated!

Keep training!

Gary
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Bill Glasheen
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Your help, please!

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Gary

Welcome back online.

Sparring has meant different things to me at different times of my life. When I was in my teens and twenties, I considered it to be the most enjoyable aspect of my training (except for murdering the heavybag after a bad day in classes). What made it enjoyable was a mixture of issues. It was an opportunity to be spontaneous. It had that element of reward vs. frustration to it that made it addictive like gambling. And when I healed quickly (or didn't care about/was naive about the consequences of injury), all the bruises and sprains were no big deal. And yes, it's a testosterone thing (women have testosterone too, Shelly).

Once I got past my shodan, I had a number of instructors who pointed out how shallow my karate was. With time and with exposure to people who could fight (as opposed to just spar), I came to see the value of other aspects of my training. I actually took a several year hiatus from sparring just so that I could "unlearn" some old tournament favorites that weren't really savory street fighting moves.

These days, with being an instructor and a bit older, I pick and choose my times to spar and sparring partners. I allow my older students to do the same. Right now what I enjoy is the continuum of kata to partner exercises to sparring. I love seeing what it takes to make a new movement "yours". You never really know it is part of your arsenal until it is done with no thought in the midst of a flurry. And right now I'm still wondering what the best set of rules are that keep my students healthy and yet allow them to internalize an array of self-defense skills. Frankly I think that it's useful having several formats to work with. Each one has it's set of strengths and weaknesses.

- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 09-21-99).]
Robb in Sacramento
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Your help, please!

Post by Robb in Sacramento »

Mr. Khoury:

I pretty much find everything about karate difficult, but in terms of sparring, and genetic gifts or lack there of aside, the two most difficult aspects for me are developing attacks (remember, there is no first attack in karate) that are both effective and within my range of body movement, and waiting.

The most memorable attack anyone ever laid on me was a spectacular flying double kick (front kick, round house). And while anyone who has ever played hoops with me will acknowledge, I can get daylight under my feet, the probability of my pulling off such a kick given my leaping ability, is fairly remote. So, as I have certain limits on the techniques I can borrow from others, developing attacks has been a bit of a bother.

The waiting, and by that, I mean the waiting for an opponent to commit to an attack before countering, is, counter intuitive and counter instinctual. Fortunately, we have several exercises that help develop this ability (arm pounding being a fine example) but if you were going to help me as an instructor, you would need to work with me on this aspect of sparring as well.

Good luck in your new school.

Peace,
Robb in Sacramento
gjkhoury
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Post by gjkhoury »

Hi gang!

Great replies from a few senior people. Any more junior folks out there willing to share what makes karate special (or totally frustrating) to/for them?

Thanks,

Gary
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Steve
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Post by Steve »

Sensei Gary - just into my eighth month of Uechi-ryu, so take my comments for what they're worth:

Frustrations: I haven't reached a point where I "trust" Uechi-ryu, especially during sparring - as addressed under your posting on dabbling - so I primarily look for opportunities during sparring to take my opponent to the ground - where I am MUCH more comfortable given my body style, wrestling experience and jiu-jitsu training. I don't know whether or not this frustration is from a lack of training, a lack of correct technique, or a desire to do too much too soon, etc.

I also wonder how much I'm getting out of doing my three sets daily of each kata (Sanchin and Kanshiwa) assuming that I am not doing each kata "correctly." And where does this fit into my sparring? I don't think that you can train to fight by faithfully doing kata, as was discussed on another forum last month. Although I do see the value of kata in reinforcing techniques and as a teaching tool.

Final frustration - movement during sparring. At 39 yrs. old, 5'7" and 175 lbs., I enjoy sparring but my transmission seems to have only one gear - forward! Unlike what Sensei Rose recommends, I will willingly take a couple of shots in order to get inside and deliver retalliating blows and grapple my opponent to the ground - all while moving steadily forward "on-line." I enjoy the competitiveness and contact, but know that in a real situation that this lack mobility and lack of great blocking skills will be problematic. How can new karateka get out of this linear mode into more of a circular mode?

Realizing that I'm probably not the norm because I enjoy the contact and the hard side of Uechi-ryu, my opinion is - the more sparring, the better the program. Working your techniques/training under stress helps to build the one's skills set. The question is how to help me to become a better student while keeping me safe from myself Image

Yours in budo, Steve

------------------
D. Steven White
swhite@umassd.edu



[This message has been edited by Steve (edited 09-22-99).]
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Bill Glasheen
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Your help, please!

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Steve

There is one simple cure for your "online" fighting style. Spend time fighting people bigger and/or harder than you. Seriously! They are out there; pain is a wonderful teacher. You might also spend some time working against weapon attacks.

On the other hand, if you can win unscathed with an opponent your size by going toe-to-toe, well then do it.

Bill
Jason Bernard
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Your help, please!

Post by Jason Bernard »

"To this end, I have a question for the group: What is it about sparring (or any other aspect of your martial training) that you find most rewarding, frightening, puzzling, and/or boring?"

Rewarding: Depends on what type of sparring we are talking about (I know, I know that old can of worms again). We have some guys at the local dojo who go to a lot of point sparring tournaments. I like to help them out by sparring with them even though I don't like point sparring all that much. The reward there is, of course, helping them out. Of course, as well there are the benefits of taking the shots and delivering them.

Now, when we do continous sparring I have great fun! This lets you try out some of the tactics, combinations, etc you might use on the street to a certain degree. Certainly, you don't do things that would leave you open to a huge retalitory combination (or if you do you get hurt). So for me, I find it a great learning experience (hmmm ... everytime I do blank I get pounded... better remember not to do blank anymore).

Frightening: The worst thing is sparring:

1) A "newbie" who doesn't enough to not accidentally hurt you.
2) Jerks who think they have something to prove.

I don't mind taking shots (that is part of the point!) and I love sparring people with whom I have mutual respect.

Puzzling: Don't know.

Boring: I wish we did more scenario based work. Sparring is okay but it is two dimensional in a three dimensional world.
Shelly King

Your help, please!

Post by Shelly King »

Boring: If something starts to feel boring, I know I don't have my mind in the right spot and had better start concentrating harder on what I'm doing because I know I must be missing something.

Rewarding: Making it through kata without a correction. OK, with less than 3 corrections, anyway. Holding my own during a sparring match and occationally hearing sensei say "Not to bad".

Frustrating: Trying to develop speed and power.

Puzzling: see frustrating.

Frightening: Hate to say it...I'm sure someone will have a comment on this one (um, perhaps Mr. Glasheen Image...the heavy bag. It intimidates me and I have know idea why. I think I would rather have to spar with a black belt and get my butt kicked than work on the bag. Of couse having said this, I know what I'll be doing Monday in class. Geez, why do I do this to myself?


------------------
Shelly
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Shelly

You wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Frightening: Hate to say it...I'm sure someone will have a comment on this one (um, perhaps Mr. Glasheen ...the heavy bag.
I'd never comment at the expense of your dignity.

Hitting the heavy bag is like running a race. When you don't do well, you have nobody but yourself to blame. That's what is so darned frustrating. The bag doesn't lie, or cheat you out of a fair outcome. When it doesn't budge and you don't make noise, you know you ....

Good for you - you are honest with yourself. Now just hit it with nobody else around so it's just you and the bag. No ego involved; no loss of face.

Hint - learn good posture. Then learn to use your lower body to generate the power. On average, women match men in lower body strength - pound for pound. Sanchin teaches you how to use the lower body; unfortunately many never learn the lesson. Power comes from the legs and hips, and is transferred via good posture through the back and shoulders. Then the arm is nothing more than the crack on the end of a whip. Two of my best bag hitters were women who were 5'3" and benched 75 pounds.

Many guys never learn how to hit properly because they use their testosterone-induced upper body strength as a crutch.

Good luck.

- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 10-01-99).]
david
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Your help, please!

Post by david »

Shelly, FWIW... The heavy bag is big and intimidating when one is new to it. There is a tendency to want to flail away as hard and fast as one can go until one is tired out. Problem is that this is a good way to develop poor technique and body mechanics. I suggest working with a partner on focus mits first.

The focus mitt is small and forces you to target more (something beginners don't do with a large bag -- a mistake). Also, it lessens the urge to try to hit as hard as possible. Initially, do strikes one at time, focusing on technique, then speed and then power (but not full out like one would on the bag). Once the technique, speed and power comes together, there is nice sounding "SMACK" on contact with the mitt and the mitt will pop back. Then work on on combining strikes, making sure that each has that satisfying smack. Start doing 1 minute, 2 minute and three minute rounds. Your partner can also spot any mistakes or bad habits like dropping your hands on the return, leading too much with the head, etc. Then move to the heavy bag. Don't be surprised to be more winded on the bag because it is heavier! But, on transition you should find yourself targeting more, and the mechanics of striking will be in place. What the heavy bag does is to increase your power and to get you used to hitting something with serious mass.

Again, FWIW and YMMV.

david


[This message has been edited by david (edited 10-01-99).]
kevinq
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Your help, please!

Post by kevinq »

The way sparring is taught has been frustrating for me. Aside from the owner, there are 3-4 different senseis who instruct sparring and they all say something different.

Another thing is that they tell you 20 different techniques/pointers at once. You end up with 20 things in your mind to remember but no real practice time to master any of them.

I wish there was a continuity of sparring instruction so that instructors would introduce one or two techniques, spend time on these, allow you to develop them, then move on to another technique or two.

The pressure to remember and apply everything an instructor has said at once really interferes which achieving success in sparring at the beginner level.

One technique at a time please. For example, before teaching me combinations, teach me how to come into punching range of my opponent- the footwork involved. Let me get good at that, then show me the combinations.

Thanks for listening.
david
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Post by david »

Kevinq,

Having several instructors can be initially confusing, especially so if each instructor thinks his/her way is the "right" way. Of course, they are "right" in the sense that their way works for them with respect to their personal attributes and charateristics.

To a certain degree, you need to be more proactive (though don't make a big fuss of it in class) in deciding what aspect of sparring do YOU need to work on and to work on it. And you may have to do this outside of class time. Class time is when concepts are introduced with a little time to experience it. But, outside of class, on your own is where you really practice it. Focus on one or two things at a time. Use drills to perfect and sparring to test.

In the long term, having more than one instructor works to your advantage. You have more than one "style" to choose from to adopt and adapt as your own. Pick the instructor that is most similar to you physically and mentally, provided he or she is skilled at what s/he does. Then used the other instructors as protypes of what you would be going up against in varying situations.

Again, when confused, break it down into manageable chunks and chew at it one at a time. Time and practice will get you there. A certain level of frustration is integral to the learning process. If it doesn't stop you, it can motivate you to keep trying.

FWIW,

david
gjkhoury
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Your help, please!

Post by gjkhoury »

Folks:

I remain encouraged and very interested in what each of you have contributed under this thread! Thank you!

Kevinq: I, too, feel that sparring practice/instruction is too willy-nilly and am working extremely hard on developing some kind of standardized curriculum that I can share with Uechi dojo everywhere.

Maybe look for a video within 6 months to a year.

I also find this to be true of self defense drills and exercises used along side our traditional Uechi curriculum.

We practice chokes one week, maybe do a wrist grab or two the next and then...? Sometimes we don't see these drills again for months, years or more.

Ideas? Thoughts? Comments?

In the meantime, keep training!

Gary
david
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Your help, please!

Post by david »

Gary,

Totally understand where you're coming from on this -- "We practice chokes one week, maybe do a wrist grab or two the next and then...? Sometimes we don't see these drills again for months, years or more."

This is indeed "willy nilly." Understand that uechi/karate is largely a striking art. Yes, there are "hidden" techniques and others that complement it. Bottom line for me is that the "core" is to hit and to avoid getting hit. Regardless of the actual striking technique, one has to develop a sense of engagement distance regardless of the size of the opponent, the ability to cover the gap or create the gap, to refine the timing and reflex for attack and defense, and to be able to generate the power to hurt and take out with one's strike.

Reflecting this "bottom line", sparring practice for me is built around structured to freestyle drills that ingrain a sense of timing, distance and reflex. Necessary also is the development of automatic use of a "continuous" attacks when the opportunity is presented by working on combinations. And, finally, always work on the fundamentals of stiking to develop power and exploxiveness. These constitute the core of training in sparring and should be present in the workout.

Takedowns, grappling, joint locks, etc. are introduced and practiced after the "required" drills. A small selection of such techniques should be focused on for weeks at a time, not introduced one week and dropped the next. These do offer enhancements but frankly also to give a little diversity and to minimize boredom in a workout. But the bulk of the work and focus remain on the "core."

My take on it.

david
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