Just curious... With the discussions of the worth of prearranged kumites, Gary K's question on the the "training continuum", what would you include/exclude, change or keep if you were starting from ground up?
No. Please I am not advocating blasphemy. The system works for many folks so it is not necessary to discard it. Nevertheless, I assume -- though I can be wrong -- that what kanbun had learned in China was somewhat different from what he taught in Okinawa. And what Kanai learned, he added on to. We also see other changes in the current "streams" from Kanai.
Anyone care to toss in 2 cents worth. I know some of you have given great thought to the vaious facets of this ryu.
david
P.S. I thought up the question but I have not thought of an answer. I'll sleep on it.
[This message has been edited by david (edited 12-13-99).]
[This message has been edited by david (edited 12-13-99).]
How would you build it from ground up...?
Moderator: Available
How would you build it from ground up...?
Okay, might as well try to answer my own question. This is hypothetical. Not trying to start a system nor do I want to. I would keep kata practice but would try to reduce the number. For example I see dani seisan as redundant and would drop it. In addition to kata, I would include the following:
Beginner to Novice
Kanshiwa bunkai – first practiced in very structured manner and in a sort of defensively mode but increasing becoming more offensive minded where block and counter are one and where the attacker is allowed latitude from where s/he attacks. The best example by the latter is what I seen from Mike Aceto.
Kumites 1-3 and Kyu kumite: I actually see these exercises as more an introduction in attacking – first as simple attacks and then as combination attacks. One does learn to block but I believe there should be at most one block/parry before the defender becomes the (counter)attacker. However, this doesn’t allow the attacker to learn combination attacks. Thus I believe the kumites, especially, kyu teaches attacks more than blocking. Kumites should be learn from right and left leads.
Basic ukemi.
One step reflex drill – Attacks are first structured so the defender can learn to move/block and counter against simple attacks. The drill can become more difficult where attacks are freestyle and the defender must block/parry/counter at the same time. At this point, defender should be learning and practicing lateral and diagonal movement as opposed to just back and forth movement.
Bag/focus mitt work.
Novice to Intermediate (builds on and presumes ongoing practice of the above)
Kyu kumite (modified) –. The diagonal/lateral movements combined with parry and/or wauke lend itself to the application of sweeps, locks, and throws. Instead of or in addition to counter strikes, “simple” variants of elbow and wrist locks, sweeps, t hrows like koshinage (hip throw) and irminage (entering throw) are introduced. On the surface, the mechanics of these look “simple” but effective application requires being able to disrupt the partner’s balance while being balanced and using one’s body weight in the technique.
Complex reflex drills – structured attack – counter attack – counter the counter. Progressive freestyle following the 1,2,3, and STOP format.
Freestyle sparring focusing on strikes and grabs only.
Intermediate to Advance
Complex reflex drills – begin to introduced the sweeps, locks and throws as part of this drill.
Freestyle sparring – allow sweeps, throws and locks. This presumes working knowledge and proficiency in ukemi. Locks should be applied “judiciously”, erring on the side of safety. Uke must be ready to tap out quick.
Advance
Introduce weapon work which are extension of hand techniques such as knife, stick and jo (short staff).
Freestyle sparring with weapons.
The idea of the above is premised on Uechi Ryu still being predominantly a striking art. Otherwise mat work would be introduced. But I believe ground work is a whole study unto itself. Weapons work can be too, or it can be learned as simple extension of our current hand techniques.
david
Beginner to Novice
Kanshiwa bunkai – first practiced in very structured manner and in a sort of defensively mode but increasing becoming more offensive minded where block and counter are one and where the attacker is allowed latitude from where s/he attacks. The best example by the latter is what I seen from Mike Aceto.
Kumites 1-3 and Kyu kumite: I actually see these exercises as more an introduction in attacking – first as simple attacks and then as combination attacks. One does learn to block but I believe there should be at most one block/parry before the defender becomes the (counter)attacker. However, this doesn’t allow the attacker to learn combination attacks. Thus I believe the kumites, especially, kyu teaches attacks more than blocking. Kumites should be learn from right and left leads.
Basic ukemi.
One step reflex drill – Attacks are first structured so the defender can learn to move/block and counter against simple attacks. The drill can become more difficult where attacks are freestyle and the defender must block/parry/counter at the same time. At this point, defender should be learning and practicing lateral and diagonal movement as opposed to just back and forth movement.
Bag/focus mitt work.
Novice to Intermediate (builds on and presumes ongoing practice of the above)
Kyu kumite (modified) –. The diagonal/lateral movements combined with parry and/or wauke lend itself to the application of sweeps, locks, and throws. Instead of or in addition to counter strikes, “simple” variants of elbow and wrist locks, sweeps, t hrows like koshinage (hip throw) and irminage (entering throw) are introduced. On the surface, the mechanics of these look “simple” but effective application requires being able to disrupt the partner’s balance while being balanced and using one’s body weight in the technique.
Complex reflex drills – structured attack – counter attack – counter the counter. Progressive freestyle following the 1,2,3, and STOP format.
Freestyle sparring focusing on strikes and grabs only.
Intermediate to Advance
Complex reflex drills – begin to introduced the sweeps, locks and throws as part of this drill.
Freestyle sparring – allow sweeps, throws and locks. This presumes working knowledge and proficiency in ukemi. Locks should be applied “judiciously”, erring on the side of safety. Uke must be ready to tap out quick.
Advance
Introduce weapon work which are extension of hand techniques such as knife, stick and jo (short staff).
Freestyle sparring with weapons.
The idea of the above is premised on Uechi Ryu still being predominantly a striking art. Otherwise mat work would be introduced. But I believe ground work is a whole study unto itself. Weapons work can be too, or it can be learned as simple extension of our current hand techniques.
david
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
How would you build it from ground up...?
David
Very interesting.
I have been busy as heck lately, so I haven't been able to add my 2 cents. But I shall soon.
In the mean time, what you have sounds like a heck of a plan.
- Bill
Very interesting.
I have been busy as heck lately, so I haven't been able to add my 2 cents. But I shall soon.
In the mean time, what you have sounds like a heck of a plan.
- Bill
How would you build it from ground up...?
Bill,
It's just musing -- having traveled down some backroads, alleys, deadends to gain a little insight on what is (as you like to say, "hidden") in Uechi-ryu, and what I personally would like to see in a martial arts practice.
The curriculum may be just a tad too broad and ambitious. It would probably result in less students. Proficiency in the various facets outlined would certainly take some time, something that not many would want to invest.
david
It's just musing -- having traveled down some backroads, alleys, deadends to gain a little insight on what is (as you like to say, "hidden") in Uechi-ryu, and what I personally would like to see in a martial arts practice.
The curriculum may be just a tad too broad and ambitious. It would probably result in less students. Proficiency in the various facets outlined would certainly take some time, something that not many would want to invest.
david
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
How would you build it from ground up...?
David
You may call it musing, but I call it compelling. I find you and I think alike more often than not.
I'm not so sure that the cirriculum would result in fewer students. On the contrary...I think you could build a vibrant dojo with such a cirriculum. But the key is building the critical mass of expertise in the dojo to maintain the information flow from teacherS to students. I think you've seen that in various places in your day (like on Hancock street). It is possible.
If you and I end up in the same city one day, we shall build such a dojo!
- Bill
You may call it musing, but I call it compelling. I find you and I think alike more often than not.
I'm not so sure that the cirriculum would result in fewer students. On the contrary...I think you could build a vibrant dojo with such a cirriculum. But the key is building the critical mass of expertise in the dojo to maintain the information flow from teacherS to students. I think you've seen that in various places in your day (like on Hancock street). It is possible.
If you and I end up in the same city one day, we shall build such a dojo!
- Bill
-
Jake Steinmann
- Posts: 1184
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Newton, MA
- Contact:
How would you build it from ground up...?
David,
A very interesting program. It looks like you've put together a very complete training regimen.
One comment: I don't think the diversity of the ciricullum would cause you to lose any students. If anything, it would gain you some. Consider how much time most martial artists spend cross training in an effort to expand their training. Even beginning students are often interested in learning as much as possible.
If you and Bill ever set up this dojo, let me know...I'd definitely come to train
A very interesting program. It looks like you've put together a very complete training regimen.
One comment: I don't think the diversity of the ciricullum would cause you to lose any students. If anything, it would gain you some. Consider how much time most martial artists spend cross training in an effort to expand their training. Even beginning students are often interested in learning as much as possible.
If you and Bill ever set up this dojo, let me know...I'd definitely come to train
How would you build it from ground up...?
Ahem... again, just musing. I will never have an open school. I know this.
Jake, there are folks out there cross training. I don't know how many. I suspect less than what we may think despite the current vogue in talking about it in various marital arts media. I also have noticed -- I can be wrong -- that different practices/dojos/gyms form circles of their own, attracting more or less a distinct crowd. And they don't always mix or share the same outlook. I think where these circles ovelap, the area/population is small. Thus I think a small school with that format. I can't explain this well and it's just a gut feeling.
david
Jake, there are folks out there cross training. I don't know how many. I suspect less than what we may think despite the current vogue in talking about it in various marital arts media. I also have noticed -- I can be wrong -- that different practices/dojos/gyms form circles of their own, attracting more or less a distinct crowd. And they don't always mix or share the same outlook. I think where these circles ovelap, the area/population is small. Thus I think a small school with that format. I can't explain this well and it's just a gut feeling.
david
