Good talk on blocks

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:11 pm

Third parties:

The right to defense of others turns largely on the reasonableness of the belief that the victim deserved assistance. A minority of jurisdictions require that the rescuer be a member of the victim’s family, or the victim’s superior or employee. Similarly, a minority of jurisdictions require that the rescuer’s belief be correct, reasoning that the rescuer ‘merely steps into the victim’s shoes’, while the majority requires only that it be reasonable. Pennsylvania law imposes no such restrictions. It does, however, require the additional showing that the rescuer believed that his intervention was necessary, and that the rescuer retreats if the victim would be required to do so.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:12 pm

If in the course of intentionally defending himself or another, a defendant recklessly or negligently injures or kills a third person, self-defense will not bar liability, but it will reduce the gravity of the charge from an intentional crime to a reckless or negligent crime.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:10 pm

gary6dan »

Martial arts teachers’ liability:

Under the Theory of Agency, the principal is liable for unlawful acts which he causes to be done through an agent. There are three possible ways in which a martial arts instructor might be held liable as the principal for the unlawful acts of his students, as agents. First, if the instructor appears to ratify or approve of unlawful conduct, he may be held liable for the commission of such acts.

Thus, a dojo which encourages the use of excessive force, or lethal force in inappropriate situations may be seen to ratify and approve of unlawful conduct. Similarly, an instructor who continues to teach a student who has abused his knowledge may be held responsible, if not liable, for subsequent torts.

Second, an instructor may be held liable for having entrusted a student with ‘an extremely dangerous instrumentality’. "[W]hen an instrumentality passes from the control of a person, his responsibility for injuries inflicted by it ceases.

However, when an injury is caused by an exceptionally dangerous instrumentality, or one which may be dangerous if improperly used, a former owner or possessor may ... be charged with responsibility for [its] use...." The implications for instructors who teach potentially lethal techniques is clear.

Finally, an instructor may be liable for harm to the student or other parties as a result of negligent instruction. Anyone who holds himself out as an expert capable of giving instruction is expected to conform to the standards of his professional community.

Thus, any instructor who, by his own negligence, fails to provide, teach and require adequate safe-guards and supervision, may be liable for any resulting injury.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:12 pm

CONCLUSION

The law, and the facts underlying a cause of action are rarely clear-cut. Statutes and case law vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Lawyers are skilled at recasting the facts in their client’s best interest.

Juries are given broad discretion with respect to determining guilt or innocence, and may feel the need to compensate an injured party regardless of fault. And even if a defendant successfully raises one of the defenses discussed above, litigation is costly both in terms of time and money.

It would be foolish to try to rely on a general understanding of the legal principles at work in these situations, in order to engage in behavior which falls just within the realm of legality. Rather, the wise martial artist will attempt to avoid any hint of liability or criminal conduct. The following general principles may be of value in this endeavor.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:14 pm

• Avoid physical confrontation. If there is a safe avenue of retreat, use it (regardless of jurisdiction). At a minimum, retreat to the wall.

• If confrontation is inevitable, give a warning when defending property, unless doing so would be dangerous or futile (which is often the case). This does not mean that you should list your qualifications, as the samurai of old were wont to do.

Rather, you should simply give the aggressor notice that you intend to use force against him, in order to allow him to reconsider his position.

• Ensure that you are not seen as the aggressor. This does not require ‘taking the first hit’, but it does require being certain that physical contact is imminent prior to reacting (for an in-depth examination of the danger here, see the Goetz case).

• Be aware of the aggravating and mitigating factors. Is there a size, age, or ability differential? Are you or the attacker armed or trained? All of these factors will help you determine the appropriate level of force.

• Use only the amount of force necessary to deter the attack. This does not require the use of ineffective technique, but rather mature reflection prior to a confrontation about what technique (including flight) is appropriate in which situation. It would be wise to introduce this as part of training.

• Once the initial threat is neutralized, stop. This does not mean that you must give your opponent a fighting chance. Rather, you may immobilize the attacker while awaiting the police, but do no further damage.

• When intervening on behalf of a third party, ensure (as much as possible) that the intervention is justified and necessary. As a rule, interference in domestic disputes is unwise. Reconciliations can mean trouble for the would-be rescuer.

• Remember that, in this country, human rights are superior to property rights. The use of force in the protection of property is very risky.

• As an instructor, you are both morally and legally responsible for the actions of your students, both inside and out of the dojo.

As an instructor, you should know the law at least to the extent of whether your state is in the majority or the minority with respect to the issues raised above. If you do not have a lawyer or law student in your dojo, any law school library will have a copy of: Your State Statutes Annotated (i.e., Texas Statutes Annotated). Simply look in the index under the headings listed in this paper for the applicable law.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:16 pm

gary6dan »



As this article does have a "disclaimer" which indicates that this info is not to be relied upon for criminal or civil defense.

However, in reading the details within the article, the "general" laws that are presented by prosecuting attorney Peter Hobart do still present an insightful and reasonable overview of many issues that we have discussed here before.

For many who study TMA and other forms of self defense, the awareness of criminal and civil liability as result of one's actions should be as well noted as the goal to be physically efficient in one's ability to defend one's self.

Laws are not etched in stone, as they are often subjective to how facts and circumstances are presented.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:18 pm

Correct Gary


Interesting article. I remember posting the same here a while back.
It is not intended for public consumption, and should not be relied upon as a defense to any criminal or civil charges or complaints."



Correct. Always seek the services of an attorney experienced in these matters.

However it is useful in a general way to let us know how easy it is to get into trouble when you least expect it.

Something else that should be kept in mind is that whatever you write on these forums, can and will come back to haunt you in a civil or criminal action.

Watch what you say especially anything that might be read as some implied threat of violence upon someone in forums discussions, while blowing your macho horn, suggesting how tough you are/ fights you have won etc., because if anything really does come to pass, you’ll be into a whole bag of “legal s*hit.”
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:25 pm

Steve
it all sounds good on paper. rational people making rational rules about something they know nothing about. Fighting is irrational. When you are in it, all the nice stuff goes out the window. Or if you have time to think about all this stuff you are probably on the floor bleeding.



Very true. The Triers of Fact [Jury] are sitting nice and comfy and safe while passing judgment on something they have never experienced.

In such matters, the jury should be chosen very carefully. Jurors won’t look very kindly upon martial arts practitioners and or carriers of concealed weapons and the DA will bark at you
“you were just hoping to get the chance to use this formidable martial arts, your combat knife or your deadly ‘dum dum’ bullets upon someone, weren’t you?”


I have been in court and witnessed some of this. Also in an action against the police in a certain town where a friend of mine was denied a carry license, the Town Attorney attacked my friend on the stand in relation to an incident he had related to the judge where he had been threatened by a bunch of punks just waiting for him to get out of a 7/11 store to get back into his car.

“Now sir, what would you have done if you had had a gun? Would you have come out of the store, gun in hand?”


The courtroom ‘thugs’ can be worse than the street thugs. I almost came to blows with a criminal defense Attorney once in Court over his insults and threats of violence relating to my investigation that was nailing his miserable ass to the bench… made in front of a female DA who disappeared…

The Judge was in his chambers…and once coming out and appraised of what had happened by a court officer…he refused to listen to it. We ended up before the board of overseers.

Also, you want to hire an attorney who will be capable to ‘place’ jurors almost physically, as well as emotionally in the chaos of survival the defendant has experienced. This is critical.

Some Attorneys are good at this; some have no idea…be sure you find the right one.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:25 pm

Steve
it all sounds good on paper. rational people making rational rules about something they know nothing about. Fighting is irrational. When you are in it, all the nice stuff goes out the window. Or if you have time to think about all this stuff you are probably on the floor bleeding.



Very true. The Triers of Fact [Jury] are sitting nice and comfy and safe while passing judgment on something they have never experienced.

In such matters, the jury should be chosen very carefully. Jurors won’t look very kindly upon martial arts practitioners and or carriers of concealed weapons and the DA will bark at you
“you were just hoping to get the chance to use this formidable martial arts, your combat knife or your deadly ‘dum dum’ bullets upon someone, weren’t you?”


I have been in court and witnessed some of this. Also in an action against the police in a certain town where a friend of mine was denied a carry license, the Town Attorney attacked my friend on the stand in relation to an incident he had related to the judge where he had been threatened by a bunch of punks just waiting for him to get out of a 7/11 store to get back into his car.

“Now sir, what would you have done if you had had a gun? Would you have come out of the store, gun in hand?”


The courtroom ‘thugs’ can be worse than the street thugs. I almost came to blows with a criminal defense Attorney once in Court over his insults and threats of violence relating to my investigation that was nailing his miserable ass to the bench… made in front of a female DA who disappeared…

The Judge was in his chambers…and once coming out and appraised of what had happened by a court officer…he refused to listen to it. We ended up before the board of overseers.

Also, you want to hire an attorney who will be capable to ‘place’ jurors almost physically, as well as emotionally in the chaos of survival the defendant has experienced. This is critical.

Some Attorneys are good at this; some have no idea…be sure you find the right one.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:27 pm

gary6dan »

"Something else that should be kept in mind is that whatever you write on these forums, can and will come back to haunt you in a civil or criminal action.

Watch what you say especially anything that might be read as some implied threat of violence upon someone in forums discussions, while blowing your macho horn, because if anything really does come to pass, you’ll be into a whole bag of “legal s*hit.”"


Good point ! As I have often thought of that. Often opinionating what one "would do" or actions that one feels are justified, when not necessarily within legal realm, could certainly be problematic. :cry:


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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:31 pm

Yes, all the stupid things we sometimes write, and implied challenges, with stories of the self being very tough fighters etc./ and we have seen some morons do that here in the past…will be neatly stacked in the hands of the prosecutor when he gets up from the table and approaches you for cross examination...at that moment your ass will begin to pucker.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:02 pm

And then you will find out bout:


Rory Miller>>>Boxes

I don’t much doubt my ability to communicate with the written word. It is an amazing tool and with practice it gets better. But this is the nature of the beast, the nature of what I teach and talk about: it is scary as all hell.

It is death and annihilation. Not just facing your own demise, that’s easy, but the fact that you may face your final years blind or crippled or with the memory of having crawled or begged.


Teachers don’t talk about it, usually. But we all know that this is what it is. This is where it all might go. Because of that, because of its nature, people are almost infinitely creative in ways to NOT think about it.

If you read “With the Old Breed on Peleliu and Okinawa” E. B. Sledge describes it perfectly: “…men had squared away their gear and had done their last-minute duties: adjusting cartridge belts, pack straps, leggings, and leather rifle slings—all those forlorn little gestures of no value that released tension in the face of impending terror.”


Fiction, movies, martial arts, late night fantasies- putting this impending terror and pain into boxes, pretty boxes small enough to hold in your brain.


This is the busy work of the monkey mind. The obsession with perfect form, the martial arts politics, the bickering over lineage, treating instructors like gods and your training as The Truth are all just different ways to hide your brain from what this is.


I don’t doubt that I can describe the technique in the written word. But this isn’t about technique.

This is why I teach individuals and in person- because I have to be there to see when the mind wanders, when developing a skill becomes an obsession to hide behind or when they are doing something to avoid seeing something else.


I have to hold what it is and what they are doing before them at all times. In the written word, no matter how strong the truth or how limited the bullshit, there is always enough weasel room that it can become a place to hide behind surface knowledge, a way to ignore while pretending to see- or just fodder for a fantasy.


Because this is my amulet- to hold up what I know about this by its slimy neck and look at it without flinching. Knowing it will kill me some day and refusing to look away.

I choose to believe that if I poke at the dark places and wade in the ##### I will understand it, at least a little. And that will let me control it, at least a little.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:22 am

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:01 pm

A higher standard of behavior


Strap on the gun, swallow your pride.
________________________________________
In my permit class we were told: When you start carrying a gun in public, you can no longer get into a shouting contest, throw a punch, or trade insults.

You must learn to hold yourself to a higher standard of behavior than unarmed civilians because the courts will do the same.

If I get into a shoving match which escalates into a gun fight, I will face criminal charges.


So what about the Martial artist? Dan rank Holder?

Will we be held to a higher standard of behavior in any confrontation?
How do you react if you are out at dinner or a mall and someone says or does something to your wife for instance that would normally have you ready to roll? Then you remember that you have a 9mm attached to your side?

A coworker of mine had this happen at a local restaurant a few months ago. Two guys from the bar side of the restaurant were talking trash/filth to his wife while they were trying to check out.

He ended up shoving one of the guys backwards into the other guy at that point the bouncers from the bar side grabbed the two troublemakers and escorted them out.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:09 pm

The Devil's Highway

Image

Best known as “The Devil’s Highway,” U.S. Route 491 has had its share of odd occurrences. Before becoming U.S. 491 in 2003, the north-south highway was known as Route 666.

The road connects the Four Corners region of the United States, beginning in Gallup, N.M., at a junction with I-40 and continuing through Shiprock, N.M., and parts of Colorado before ending in the farming town of Monticello, Utah, at the base of the Abajo Mountains.

According to the New Mexico Department of Transportation, between 2000 and 2001 489 accidents and 13 fatalities occurred along U.S. 666 between mile markers 0 and 69. In 2007, after the highway had been renamed, the number of accidents dropped to 20 and fatalities to one.
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