The Reality Of A Multiple Threat Close Quarter Knife Attack

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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Postby Darren Laur » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:43 pm

Van:

Thank you. I'm off to work the streets for the next 12 hours, so I will share more on this topic soon.

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Postby gmattson » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:45 pm

Message #1: Stay out of prison.

Message #2: Don't get overconfident because you are certified in XYZ method.

Message #3: Don't get overconfident and believe you have special abilities and skills because you do it the "real way"!

Message #4: Understand that the most important lessons you can learn regarding self-defense have nothing to do with physical techniques.

Message #5: Be aware, don't do anything stupid and enjoy life. When it is your time, be able to think: "I enjoyed the time I was given".

Message #6: Don't go through life being paranoid. Enjoy life.
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Postby Van Canna » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:01 pm

Message #3: Don't get overconfident and believe you have special abilities and skills because you do it the "real way"!


Ha...the message of my forum from day one. In the chaos of survival, martial arts skills or other skills will always remain marginal.

But a good one. Who do we know, George that does it the real way?
:wink:


**

Message #6: Don't go through life being paranoid. Enjoy life.


True.

Paranoia= A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution or grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason. __ Extreme, irrational distrust of others.

Paranoia is a mental disorder necessitating psychiatric intervention. We can’t just tell people “don’t be paranoid” __ If they are, it will show sooner or later and will require a shrink intervention.

Now lets see what defines “awareness” the very thing we promote on my forum = Cognizant, conscious, sensible, awake, alert, watchful, vigilant. These adjectives mean mindful or heedful of something. Aware implies knowledge gained through one's own perceptions, as of the attitudes of others, or by means of information

This has been brought up before. The above should put the matter to rest.

All the readers of the forum agree that these discussions promote physical and mental exploration __ and awareness __that hone the defensive component of Uechi Ryu or other martial art, a component that cannot be denied, which dwells within all who seek “enlightenment” in the martial way without exception.
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Postby Rick Wilson » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:32 am

Mark:

Although Darren responded I would like to add in my 2 cents (Canadian of course.)

The reason we need to see this is because these people walk our streets.

These people do not stay in prison forever (certainly not in Canada) and many are not there yet.

So when we see such violence what can it mean for us?

The calm almost detached manner in which this individual is something to note. As he walks away he does not have two heads or horns or any other sign he is a monster. Maybe up close his eyes might or might not say more but then many of these guys can be charming as well.

The point I am not doing a good job making is what if you dinged this guy’s new car in the mall parking lot?

Being aware of what you might be dealing with is forewarned therefore forearmed.

This is important because it just might kick in a self preservation jump that might otherwise be stuck in the denial of “people just don’t do this sort of thing.”

I know that in my circle this isn’t the way people behave and I have not witnessed such an act before in person or on real video. The closest I saw was a video of a guy using a knife to multiple stab someone but it came after he was bullied and threatened. Not this cold methodical stabbing but a fast and furious.

Not the type of video I would like to see every night and it was very sobering as I posted but those who do not believe they will have to use their MAs for self protection might want to see what is out there in the world. In our safe lives we can fool ourselves.

I live in downtown Edmonton, nicer neighbourhood but step over a few blocks and….

I know I am rambling but this is something we need to be aware of. When people say I will never need my MAs for self protection ask what they will do when they ding this guy’s car?

Will he understand it was an accident?

Sobering.
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Postby Van Canna » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:46 am

Good post, Rick. :(
Van
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Postby Mark Weitz » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:39 pm

A lot to respond to here. I re-read my reply and read the rest of the thread. Certainly I was shocked and disturbed, not because I couldn't conceive of this occuring or that I believed I was somehow immune from it; it was actually viewing it, seeing the knife enter the body of the victim, the total helplessness, and the victim may have been a very capable fighter in his own right, but it didn't stop the nightmare from occuring. Let me be perfectly clear: I don't have the slightest clue what I'd do if I was in the poor man's place and I don't know if my training and/or skills could prevent this from happening to me if faced by two guys with this level of skill, intent, and sheer brutality.

I now see my statement questioning the value of video was coming from my own discomfort and a limited view of what can be learned and who would benefit, a view based on my personal perspective and not those of the wider audience.

Studying with a Kali instructor who'd been in knife fights, watched people get knifed, bludgeoned, and shot to death - inlcuding a fight where one fighter went to round kick the other guy, only to get a BBQ skewer impaled through his thigh and rocks dropped on his head after a takedown - gave me the stories, but this video was more powerful and shocking than any story. I was seeing it happening as it unfolded, not through a story told by a teacher.

One of the good points/questions raised: what did the perps do right? Apparently a lot!

So far the comments on this video have been focussed on the psychological impact, which is hugely important. Darren, you're a law enforcement officer if I read right. What part of your training/experience does this video bring up as things to focus on?
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Postby Bill Glasheen » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:16 pm

To Rick's point, the following was posted on my forum recently.

Local Stabbing

This is a third year biology student at Mr. Jefferson's University. A cold-blooded woman beater and now killer walking amongst a bunch of other spoiled, smart kids from well-to-do families.

They come from all walks of life. It isn't just low life victimizing the folks wearing nice clothes.

- Bill
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Postby benzocaine » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:20 am

I put myself in the place of the person being stabbed. What did he think? His whole life surely flashed before him and a sense of sheer horror of what was happening to him came over him. I hope he passed out or died quickly.. probably didn't though. It looks like the killers wanted to make this guy sh!t his pants with fear before he was slowly snuffed.

And think, this stuff happens and has always happened every day in some part of the world. It could happen to you by some sick f@#k.

This is one of those posts from this forum that gets me thinking damnit. It brings out the kill or be killed concept right to the front of the mind, where your average person never entertains such thoughts.
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Postby Guest » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:07 am

And think, this stuff happens and has always happened every day in some part of the world. It could happen to you by some sick f@#k.

This is one of those posts from this forum that gets me thinking damnit. It brings out the kill or be killed concept right to the front of the mind, where your average person never entertains such thoughts.
It happens every day right in North America. I had a friend stabbed to death in Banff. Lucy was stabbed and slashed over 80 times and then just dumped on the street to bleed out alone in the dark.

It happened in front of the elementary school. It's ironic but I observed a self defence program put on in this same facility targeting adults. Weapons were never mentioned, yet 100 feet away someone has been murdered with a knife.

I agree this forum and fine folks like Van and Darren etc.,do a great job of removing our heads from the sand.

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Postby Mark Weitz » Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:33 pm

Laird, that is terrible what happened to your friend. A terrible loss.

It seems attacks with weapons, and especially among youth, are getting worse. Here in ol' sleepy Thornhill, which border's Toronto's most northerly street, there was a stabbing last night outside a drug store in mall that is roughly 300 yards from my house. I haven't seen the story yet in print but the news channel I watch in the morning said a young man in his twenties, an employee of Shoppers Drug Mart, was leaving work around mid-night, headed for his car in the parking lot right in front of the store - this is a well-lit, busy parking lot, even at that time of night, near a very busy intersection - saw a guy trying to steal his car and got stabbed. The victim is in critical condition in the hospital and no word yet if he made it.

As the details come out, I'll post them here. I'm assuming at this point that the victim attempted to stop the guy from stealing his car and never thought that the perp had a knife and was capable of using it.

What do you folks think? How would you handle that one, specifically keeping in mind your safety and the stabbing video we viewed on this forum?

I'm thinking real hard about this one because I was literally at the same drug store last night, when this stabbing happend. Granted I was there at 8pm, with many more people circulating around, but it was the same damn mall and this jerk is in my neighbourhood and the perp hasn't been found. And like a lot of people, I've headed out to stores close to mid-night to get something needed in my house, cold-medicine for my kid, etc.
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Postby Van Canna » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:31 pm

The Globe had a news item today about a 14-year-old girl getting stabbed. Surgeons had to take out pieces of her liver.

I investigated a case a few years back, where some sick F**, after having a fight with his girl, went to the movies.

The cashier in the booth was a young woman that reminded the punk of his girl.

It just so happened; the side door of the booth had remained unlocked.

So the punk opens it and stabs the hapless woman right through the liver.

Luckily she survived.

Ø I'm assuming at this point that the victim attempted to stop the guy from stealing his car and never thought that the perp had a knife and was capable of using it. <

One of the dangers of the martial arts is that there are some of us who think we are real tough because of our training and our special sensei.

So a few, if not more, would fall headlong into a the trap of dangerous confrontations, which might have been avoided, but for, the “invincibility syndrome” __ AKA__ “confidence”

So they get shot, stabbed, or squashed by a swarm attack.
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Postby Mark Weitz » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:11 pm

Ignorance, for lack of a better word, about what people, or a type of person, are capable of is a barrier, as well as denial. As Bill pointed out, this kind of savagery can be committed by all types, not just the guy who looks like the stereotypical bad-ass.

The line(s) between what we normally think of as good neighbourhoods, safe places to hang out ,etc. is getting thinner and less visible by the month. It's becoming clearer to me that assumptions about what people might do in a fight, and what I and other MAs should/should not do could, to quote Van, end up with you looking out of the oblong box. :!:

I discussed this incident with a colleague of mine, a young social worker who parks her car in the underground parking lot across the street from where we work. And this is NOT a safe neighourhood. I tolder she needs to find somewhere above ground to park her car and to always have a friend from the agency - there are many here who park in the same lot underground - drive her to her car or she do the same for another woman or guy for that matter.

The kid that got stabbed in the story I posted probably didn't think about the fact that his insurance will cover his stolen and/or damaged car. Ignorance of what he was getting into and making a poor choice about protecting his property contributed to his being hospitalized. If I see someone trying to break into my car I sure as hell won't try to stop him. I'll go somewhere safe where I can make a call to the police and the insurance company.
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Postby Stryke » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:10 pm

Unfortunately the law of the jungle is whats happening out on the streets , but in the jungle at least we know who the predators are .

as we get more and more restricted and persecuted for wanting to defend ourselves , and be pro-active , the phsychology of the agressor gets less and less human .

One just cant rely on anyone except themselves these days , its a tragic fact .

Its a matter of deciding wether your valuables or your ego and pride are worth a knife in the ribs .

above that and being prepared it`s a game of chance .

and as Machiavelli wrote

above all else be armed
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Postby Mark Weitz » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:07 pm

[but in the jungle at least we know who the predators are .
]

Do we know who these people are? One problem that's come up, and Bill's attached story about a stabbing shows this, is that we don't always know who these people are. A perp can appear in a number of guises, sometimes a preppy looking kid who you'd never expect to be a cold-blooded murderer is the predator and you wouldn't know it by looking at him.

[/One just cant rely on anyone except themselves these days , its a tragic fact .

Its a matter of deciding wether your valuables or your ego and pride are worth a knife in the ribs .

above that and being prepared it`s a game of chance ]

I agree. We have to take matters into our own hands, train the best that we can, and not hold on to delusional ideas about our abilities and what can happen on the street.
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Re: The Reality Of A Multiple Threat Close Quarter Knife Att

Postby Van Canna » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:08 pm

Mark Weitz »

Do we know who these people are? One problem that's come up, and Bill's attached story about a stabbing shows this, is that we don't always know who these people are.

A perp can appear in a number of guises, sometimes a preppy looking kid who you'd never expect to be a cold-blooded murderer is the predator and you wouldn't know it by looking at him.

One just cant rely on anyone except themselves these days , its a tragic fact .

Its a matter of deciding whether your valuables or your ego and pride are worth a knife in the ribs .

above that and being prepared it`s a game of chance

I agree. We have to take matters into our own hands, train the best that we can, and not hold on to delusional ideas about our abilities and what can happen on the street.

Mark Weitz
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