Good talk on blocks

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:56 am

Tony-San »

First strike: While it might appear to be a first strike to a lotus eater, a well practiced, intuitive martial artist is actually responding to an intention which has yet to manifest as a physical entity.

e.g. for someone to punch you in your mouth, that idea has to exist as an inspiration prior to the actual punch in the mouth. Through drills, kata training and sparring and all the other karate stuff we do, we should be able to evolve our senses to the point where we can actually *feel* this attack before it compresses into a form which can do damage.

This is why calmness, cool headedness and all those soft attributes of conciousness are important (hench: the calm before the storm), so one can pick up on this movement of intent.

Lotus eaters, while they like to think they are soft and have intuition, they actually have all these doors and barricades up that actually block their senses as well as their perception of the naked truth!

they use these things to help them maintain their composure so that there is a disctinction between them (good) and the other (evil).

Therefore, they will have NO CLUE what I am talking about here. These paradigms are like a room full of mirrors that lotus eaters must perceieve reality through..

not only is their view of the outerer realms distorted, the time it takes to react is dirt slow!

the idea of a first strike to them is an aggresive tactic, but with me, it's actually a defensive manuever... i'm only responding to something that hasn't quite occured yet.

Will that hold up in court? no. Will people think i'm an #####? probably.

Will jesus give me a lollipop? probably not.

Will I be a victim? FUQ NO! And that right there is the only thing that is important to me.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:01 am

Alan K »

The subject matter of self-defense has been a great in depth discussion.

The Blade post was presented in a text book method and covered a lot of material and from this post and the many others such as from Van Canna, Darren Laur, Don Rearic and others gave insight into personal and professional experience.

Yet the nagging thing is that we may all be perplexed to really know if we will prevail in a true self-defense situation.

Noted in the posts is the fact that specific areas on required conduct vary from state to state and from the USA and Canada.

As an example, in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts there is no automatic right to have a judge charge the jury of the availability to the self defense plea.

It must be earned. That is to say the defendant must offer evidence, which if believed by the jury to be true, would be a prima facie case of self defense.

This would come in the evidence presented at the trial, and it could even come from evidence from the prosecution.


There is also the duty to retreat.

The evidence will come from many sources such as witness testimony, which many times is quite contrary from witness to witness or what you had perceived portrayed your situation.

The text presentation can give examples of what may be "reasonable" or warranted force which may be employed in self-defense. The duty to retreat for example will be judged in the evidence presented and the physical attributes of the scene.

For example Bubba bumps into you while carrying a beer in the aisle at a football game and threatens you as being at fault. You have a duty to try to get away from Bubba before you pre-emptively give him a shoken to the solar plex.

Witness evidence can vary greatly even in a clear view situation as was well demonstrated in a Massachusetts case a couple of years ago involving two "hockey dads" who got into a fray in a hockey arena in which their sons were playing.

One beat the other to death.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:04 pm

Don Rearic »
Alan K wrote:
As an example, in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts there is no automatic right to have a judge charge the jury of the availability to the self defense plea. It must be earned. That is to say the defendant must offer evidence, which if believed by the jury to be true, would be a prima facie case of self defense. This would come in the evidence presented at the trial, and it could even come from evidence from the prosecution.



And this, to me, simply makes the Law hostile and the concept of Justice a farce, it's a fantasy.

If you cannot stand up and insist, "No, I was defending myself, I was in fear for my life..."

And they are going to decide for you? See, you're screwed from the start in some cases if you have to "prove" anything to "claim" Self-defense to begin with.

There is also the duty to retreat.



Any thinking, rational person will do so if the opportunity presents itself. This is a world of AIDS and Hepatitis B and who knows what will come around the corner in the future. Before AIDS, no one worried about it, right? Then it burst on the scene and this can certainly happen again.

No thinking and rational person wants to loose a round into someone, it is not a sterile event as it is portrayed on television and even when television shows the splatters, they hardly ever show the close quarters engagement and what really happens.

There is a world of difference between Seagal smoking someone with a Custom 1911 from several feet away and a woman with a rapist on top of her and she fires at contact range.

Knives are brutal as well. Damaging people is brutal and people who know the System and know what happens when you don't fight will usually do whatever they can to avoid these things.



The problem is when a Politically - motivated Judge can sway the case so you cannot claim Self-defense and in this later example of having a Duty to Retreat, a Politically - motivated Prosecutor can twist the Duty to Retreat into something absurd.

It should be left up to the threatened individual as to what is in their best interests, no Monday Morning Quarterbacking should be allowed.

The evidence will come from many sources such as witness testimony, which many times is quite contrary from witness to witness or what you had perceived portrayed your situation.


In the blink of an eye, something can happen, therefore, in the blink of an eye, a threatening movement can be missed. Added to that is the fact that alot of these situations happen in neighborhoods where the people hanging around are more or less like the person that attacked you to begin with.

A Politically - motivated Prosecutor could hold other pending charges against other people so they testify for the State, just like they get criminals to testify against each other. It happens.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:09 pm

Don Rearic>>

The text presentation can give examples of what may be "reasonable" or warranted force which may be employed in self-defense. The duty to retreat for example will be judged in the evidence presented and the physical attributes of the scene.


And there is a flaw in that, you may have an avenue of escape, to be sure, but that does not mean it is safe to do so.

You could be shot in the back, stabbed in the back, chased down and stomped.

Anything. In my case, I basically cannot "retreat" wherever I am. I have a six year old Son and an Asthmatic Wife. I can't pick them up and run.

In the Marine's Lexicon:

"Don't bother to run, you'll only die tired."


For example Bubba bumps into you while carrying a beer in the aisle at a football game and threatens you as being at fault. You have a duty to try to get away from Bubba before you pre-emptively give him a shoken to the solar plex.


Indeed, and if I can get back up safely, I will because I am smart. If I cannot do so safely - even because of unsure footing - in the example you cite, I imagine there might be stairs/steps involved, I would stand my ground.

I would never turn my back on a hostile person, known or unknown.

Preemption enters the game when they have aggressed and they are giving off the precursors to assault.

If I put my hand out there in a stop sign fashion ("The Fence") and someone pushes it away and continues on, I take that as an immediate assault on my person, period.

Likewise, if both hands are up in the classic "Hold Up" position and they enter in, it's their ass at that point.

I'm more or less surrendering. I have no other reasonable chance if I ignore the various fantasies that reaction beats action.


Even then, the law is a process of evolution dictated by human beings and as you all know, can not be precisely predicted.
Alan K


Indeed, we often forget that the word "Draconian" comes from the Athenian Politician and "Lawyer," Draco.

The Law is so harsh and so convoluted that Draco himself would smile at our System.

Littering might not carry the death penalty, but you can lose everything you ever earned because some violent predator, that the very same System refused to deal with - got the right Judge, Jury and Prosecutor.


Stultorum infinitus est numerus

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:13 pm

What I like about Don Rearic's posts...is the fact he keeps on blowing holes in the panties of most of the martial artists who think real violence is nothing but a bad bout of constipation.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:07 pm

Jorvik>>

Street lore

It will vary.....literally from street to street, some more violent than others.
USA may be a million times worse than UK.....but some general rules apply.

The Winner is the one who gets the first dig in.

The "Kirkby Kiss" is a favourite where I live.

Somebody will distract you with a few words, almost casually lean over and take your jacket lapels then send his head into yours at unreal felocity......

you feel the blood spurt from your eyebrow or your nose, you put your hands up to cover your face .....the blows rain in .......then you fall, as the kicks come fast and furious, his friends join in.

Or the other street favourite the " Liverpool Credit Card".....any small bladed knife, usually a craft knife or carpet cutter......an effortless swing will open your face up to the bone.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:14 pm

Don Rearic »

Just wanted to clarify something, I never was a Biker - could be mistaken or taken out of context. But I grew up around Pagans and anyone who has been around any hardcore Bikers knows the name of that tune.

Was taught by a Hessian at one time though. :)

Re: "Liverpool Credit Card." I have a friend who told me that this is a catch-all term for everything from razor knives to screwdrivers used as edged weapons.

He also said edged weapons are generically referred to as a "Stanley," after the carpet (razor) knife by the same name.

Britain has always had a serious knife culture.

Take a Stanley razor knife apart...hmm...should I tell you this? :)

Anyways, anyone that tells you Britain has not had a serious knife culture for years (hint: gun problem is new, think, reason, arrive at a conclusion...) has not been exposed to it.

I have not, I have never been there. I know those who have in British Law Enforcement and Executive Protection circles.

In Baltimore, "shank" and "shiv" are timeless slang.

The Men's Correctional Facility in Jessup, Maryland has been called, "The Cut" for years, since I was a small child and I'm 34 now.

In Baltimore, some people call knives a "Stick" now. As in, "Lemme see your Stick."

Huh? My what?

"Your Stick, lemme see your Stick!"

I don't have a 'Stick.'

"Yeah ya do! That knife, ya stick someone with it, lemme see your Stick, Man."

See? There are several thousand people online from Baltimore who would come here and say, "Quit being so dramatic Don, you watch too many movies."

I don't worry about them. I worry about the ones that already know what a "Stick" is in Baltimore City.

Stultorum infinitus est numerus

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:19 pm

Don Rearic »

What I was going to say about the Stanley and all other carpet and linoleum knives like it is this...

Take it apart like you are going to replace the blade, take an extra blade. You take a wooden matchstick and you break it in half and discard the head. Place the wooden sticks on the blade in the knife, place the other blade on it, the sticks will separate the two blades slightly. Place the other "clamshell" half of the knife back and screw it back together. That is a British Stanley, proper.

As far as "blocking" one, well...

Bob Kasper has about the best workable "Boxcutter" plan I have seen, you know the guy is going to have the mad slasher attack primarily...bring your palms up to the sides of your face - fingertips on temples and your elbows in tight which puts bone in between your face and the incoming razor and it puts bone between the incoming and your neck. Keep it tight and start low kicking the snot out of them. Bob K. calls this, "Cover and Explode."

Hopefully, one of those kicks is going to cause a stutter where you can start giving them the vicious te-gatana, etc
.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:36 pm

Reflections of A Felony in Progress

Deep Sea »

Reflections of A Felony in Progress

Sunday evening, shortly before store closure, I was in a computer store returning a new notebook which I was quite unhappy with. I brought the goods to the courtesy booth and while waiting for the salesman who had originally sold it to me I drifted to the camera section.

They have attractive things there that catch the eye. I walked around to the left of two dudes who were standing along mid-counter. I smelled them [not body odor] and gave them a wide berth as I started looking at the cameras.

I glanced right a few times and instinctively knew there was going to be trouble.

To make a long story short, I faded away from that area for about ten minutes with my salesperson. Then, while returning to the checkout register I was to go past the camera counter.

On my way I noticed those two guys again, and just as I was wondering why they hadn’t made their move yet, my ears picked up a sharp low-decibel “SNAP” followed by the a lowered but audible voice from the leader of the two [he’s the one I smelled who caused all the danger flags to go up]

“Let’s go!” as they made a b-line away from me, and out the door they went. There was a missing camera from where the snap originated.

Fast-Forward…..

Ok, I know those guys. Not those two personally, but those types of individuals. They are far and few between, but they are the “real thing,” those of whom Van writes about; that’s why I “smelled” them [for lack of a better word].

I also sensed the leader was packing heat. I didn’t see it, I didn’t have to. They’d probably never pull it in a store like that unless they had their backs against the wall, that’s how “professional” they are.

Those two are really dangerous individuals, the same kind who approached me at Daytona beach, except these two were what I considered way above average.

Fast-forward again to the substance of what I want to write, and that’ll be much shorter than this lead-in.

The part that gets me is all the stuff I read in these forums about chambering, strategy, etc. really gets me, and especially did again after reflecting Sunday evening.

If any of you, I don’t care how good you think you are, was ever confronted on the street by the guy I call the leader, you are dead meat, plain and simple.


I don’t care if you’ve had a trillion years of a hundred martial arts styles, you’re fuking dead meat and the only movement you’re going to have the sliverest of time to make is a hinged-one on the very back edge of your heels.

If he wants you he is going to make his move and you will find out about it when you wake up in the hospital. I hate to sound so damning about it, but that’s the way it is.

I stood next to them and for several instants, the flags went up for me I was interested and attracted toward the danger like a moth to the light. "Those thoughts and the feelings like that will get one killed."

I thought on my way to work yesterday morning, and I was absolutely simply asininely stupid and crazy, because my readiness and feeling of conquer ability was all in my head, the same as it is with most.

I don't normally armchair what could've, but what I thought about was more like what would've.

Always with an even keel.


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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:39 pm

Akil Todd Harvey »

Hey Hey Martial Arts Pals,

I wish I could come in here and tell ya the whole truth, but I am afraid I would end up causing more confusion and spreading more manure than needed.

All I can say is that certainty is not a luxury I can afford. Whether it be certainty that I will win or that I will lose.

Sensei Van (ver is he?) has brought up the issue of the veteran or senior BG (you know the one with all that tax-payer paid training in the state & federal pen).

The most intimidating of all Van's stories was the BG who took six or seven bullets and still wouldn't go down. Do I think I could take that guy? Probably not.

Can I possibly train hard enough to take out a guy whom seven bullets cant drop? While I may think a lot of myself, my doubts become very real when discussing people of this nature.

If there is anything I can add that may have the necessary two cents factor it would be that we need to look at the motivations of the actors.

In the Scenario depicted by Deep Sea, the BG who looks like a major BG, Deep sea, while questioning his abilities against this guy, in the end, nothing happens to him because the BG has no motivation to go after him.

Had he been the one holding the camera, the motivations of the BG may have been different and the scenario would have ended differently.

It has been said about the NHB competitions that there are no rules when in fact one of the biggest rules of all in the NHB fights that dont exist on the street is the purse for the winner.

I call this the $60,000 or $100,000 motivator. People will do a lot for $100,000 that they would not do only for the purpose of stealing the contents of your wallet.

The motivations for both BG and GG (Deep Sea) are very different in the two scenario's. In the first scenario, Allen has little or no motivation for preventing the BG from taking the goods or for stopping the BG.

In the second scenario, the motivations are about as great as they can get. Who would fight for their life over a camera that did not belong to you and that you were not paid to guard?
Who would fight to protect their loved ones?

Ability, while a key variable, is not the only one that determines outcome.

Peace,

ATH
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:47 pm

Deep sea>>

What if you came home and discovered this specimen doing …


I’ll tell you a little short story, real short. Some of my close friends already know a few details.

Here it goes: I almost killed a guy 30 some-odd years ago who tried to fuk my first wife.

I was real close -- within a fraction of a second of ending his life when I decided he was not worth it. I don’t talk tough, I don’t even like to think tough, so it ends here.

I wrote this paragraph after reading the above, and rather than deleting it, learn what I have to say right here --

If you ever want to kill someone, let it pass because you'll be grateful for the rest of your life that you let it go. There are better ways of dealing with scum, much better ways.

Allen
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:50 pm

Deep sea>>

I’ve come to the rescue of my oldest when he was a young teen right outside the door he was surrounded by mixed race guys and the guy I spoke with was so big I got a cramp in my neck trying to make eye contact.

I did the VSD thing and defused the situation. What I’m really trying to say is that blood runs thicker than water. You don’t even think of danger, you’re just there. Not just me, but that is a common trait of humans.

When I was about the same age as Chris was when I got a cramp in my neck I was a little wise guy [sometimes] and my mom was driving me someplace in providence when I flipped someone the bone.

I don’t remember why but I had a good reason, I just know I must have [lol]. He followed us and when my mom parked he got out of his car and started threatening me.

I think he hit me or something, but my mom, maybe 5’6 grabbed this mean muthah and pinned his big ole ass against the wall of the building with her hand clutching his throat telling him what she was going to do to him if he ever laid his hands on me again.

Wow! Now that's a mom!!! French temper at it’s ultimate.

That’s normal under those circumstances.

Allen
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:21 pm

RA Miller »

I wanted to comment on this part:
"If any of you, I don’t care how good you think you are, was ever confronted on the street by the guy I call the leader, you are dead meat, plain and simple."


and the related sentiments...

These guys are pros (if he is of the same caliber as the EBGs I'm envisioning) and will stack everything in his favor- surprise, location, numbers, weapons and a picked victim.

But they can be thrown off their game by someone who attacks.

As for the bad guy taking six bullets and fighting, the record is a good guy taking over thirty AK-47 bullets and still carrying two comrades to the 'copter.

Their is no reason for anyone to believe that only "other people" have that kind of commitment.

Unless the bullet hits your brainstem, spine or shatters your femur there is no physiological reason to stop. You can choose to keep fighting and that is simply a decision.

Rory
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:25 pm

Stopping Power

Topos »

In the 1960's a good M.D. friend of mine gave me an interesting precise of the issue of stopping power. When he was first drafted in 1945 he was assigned to guard prisoners.

At an unimpressive 5' 6" it was not his lean NY kid that got them in line. One of them, heavily built Master Race 6'er rushed him as he held a M1 Carbine with the 'lowly' .30 round.

Mel said that he knew where to stop the rushing fool: he kneeled and aimed at the femoral artery "anywhere between the legs, I was hoping to be a '2-cushion shot'" The BG toppled as if he were cut down by a buzz saw.

"Aim at the inner thigh and you will stop any one. The spirit may be willing, but the legs or genitals have a mind of their own"

In passing, Mel became a brilliant surgeon who joined the Navy during Vietnam. On weekends he would go on raids (against his Commanders orders), getting medals for among other things saving lives under battle conditions, rescuing a trapped Seal, etc.

More than One Medal. As a surgeon he saved many young lives on the ship.

He wrote me at the end of his tour that he was coming back to get married and create life, having seen and participated in the taking of lives.

The day before he was coming home he just had to go on one more chopper ride, hoping to shot the MG out of the side (he got another medal for knocking out a hidden MG nest).

The three choppers were shot out of the air, including the one he was on. A great loss of a friend and a hero.

Any one who visits Boston can see near the Hatch Shell the Commander Melvin Lederman Memorial.

There are still many of us who remember him.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:27 pm

Deep Sea »

Another thought that pops to the surface is the many posts on how does one use karate to prepare for a confrontation from someone like those two? If I answered it I'd have to write that I really don't know.

If they interviewed their selection, then maybe the "interviewee" can think of something during the discourse.

But when I was standing next to them I had the thoughts that whatever they were going to do was going to be instantaneous, like the shark attack -- without an interview.

Furthering that feeling I day the reaction has to come automatically instinctively, and there has to be a presence of mind like not daydreaming else stars may be included.

I know I write with a little dry edge, but I'm serious anyway. I don't think those two would accost anyone inside the store. Others have said that whatever they wanted to do, they wanted to do it quietly and stealthily.

So my writings were more on the type of individuals rather than my personal involvement and choice of none.

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