Good talk on blocks

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:39 pm

How would you handle this blocking situation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10b2ZTYmmWA
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:44 pm

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:59 am

Keep asking yourself how to use them as blocks and you'll get the same answer ....

you need new questions to get a different result .
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:40 am

I guess the answer is the blocking moves in the kata can be used as attacking moves or deflection moves depending on the situation.

Though when we watch the size and strength disparity of the attacker and the victim in the video, you kind of wander if any move will do at all. I think the attacker was also an ex con...so the mindset is different.

Reason why I keep talking about the nature and size of any potential opponent anytime we think 'engagement'...the 'tactical side' is what will keep a person alive, not the technique.

Let's place ourselves in the store when this happened... what would we have done and why? Would we have intervened in any way?

And would any of the techniques we could have used _ stopped that guy?

Let's enumerate them.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:33 am

Well it's a thread on blocks Van , and yes tactics always trumps technique , strategy mindset ... but


its precisely the tactics that are wrong in the execution of blocks generally , in kumites or imagined ritualised kata that is all block strike sequences.

such practice puts you constantly on the end of collision at the point of violence ... the worst place , it ingrains the timing and positioning that is tactically the worst place to be .

any other time is better , any other place is better , but we become fixated on that collision , the act of violence , and miss all the opportunity around it .

and it begins with the mindset of block .... the tactic of block .

You need to ingrain tactics in the technical as well , and the emotional .

as for how to win against x y z ... sometimes you cant , but its best odds
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:59 pm

Good post Marcus...

For discussion's sake I am still looking for opinions on what would better the odds of surviving such a beating in that enclosed space against that 350 pounds opponent who was motivated by the 'fact' his girl friend had been insulted by the victim.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby gmattson » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:31 pm

Image

Tough to discuss such a "sucker" punch situation. I write more about avoidance than engaging, in these no-win encounters. I captured three images involved in the first video. The "victim" is still unaware that anything is happening as the bad-guy is "loading" his sucker punch in the first image. In the second, the punch is on-the way and the victim is still completely unaware of what is happening. By the time the next FRAME of the clip is captured, the punch has landed and the victim in on his way to the floor. (A little bit like being hit head-on by a car coming at you in a two lane road)

How do you prepare and deal with either encounters? YOU DON"T! How do you avoid getting into either encounter? As soon as the drunk woman began acting up, leave the building and call police instead of trying to communicate with the woman or her boyfriend. Car situation? Hope your reflexes are very good!

Bad guys don't telegraph their intentions, bow to their victim before punching and are masters of deception and hitting first.

[got the photo to load - ]
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby fivedragons » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:12 pm

GEM: "Bad guys don't telegraph their intentions, bow to their victim before punching and are masters of deception and hitting first"

Gold

Let's consider this: "Good guys don't telegraph their intentions, bow to their victim before punching and are masters of deception and hitting first."
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:59 pm

For discussion's sake I am still looking for opinions on what would better the odds of surviving such a beating in that enclosed space against that 350 pounds opponent who was motivated by the 'fact' his girl friend had been insulted by the victim.


GEMS right you got to avoid it if you can , if you cant ...... you certainly don't ignore the threat and talk on your phone, you certainly need to eat some humble pie. At least enough to get some strategic advantage.

Using the tactics and offlining ETC thats ingrained in practicing everything that way , failing that you need for surprise and more power than he has so probably a force continium , but the reality is if you find yourself on the end of that your probably done unless you have more. You need serious ability to do damage , some serious gross motor power to anatomical weaknesses , all of which will be harder if you dont have superior the right position/cover/entry, if your stuck already...... were there opportunity's to move?

getting there firstest with the mostest still applies no way around that rule

you might get a guarantee with a toaster, your just playing stiff odds against someone like this , sometimes your the bug not the windscreen , you limit your exposure by living right and making good choices and managing the odds without being paranoid , but it can happen to anyone anywhere.

failing that make sure you carry a box of doughnuts and sprinkle them about to distract him.

dont be in his pocket be inside it and over it or offline of his power , force continuim escalation , another topic , but not even an option if you've not answered the above .

but this is just fiction , I've sparred/competed with bigger guys and that was hard enough with rules
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:14 pm

Bad guys don't telegraph their intentions, bow to their victim before punching and are masters of deception and hitting first.


well yes and no , this is my point , it's the blocking mindset if we're talking about this clip ..... we're still mentally waiting for the attack.

I've actually seen a longer clip , she's left in this one to get her man 8O , and I still count 43 seconds before a punch is thrown , she's up in his face for 43 seconds .... think about it .


did he telegraph the punch ? , ok what about intent , how far back can we go to figure out that something is going wrong and how much earlier could the beligerant victim 8O :roll: of acted earlier , when does an observant person know this isn't going right and can choose to act retreat or defuse.

observe , orient , decide , act
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Art Rabesa » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:26 pm

Enjoyed your post Marcus. I just can not over think blocking in general. I've posted this a few times but here it is once again. I do not see any block as passive. I treat ALL blocks as an attack on the attack. Coming off that very hard block, which is more of a strike, right into the follow up strike or strikes. Everything I read here is very good. I just don't see blocks as a way not to be hit. I see them as attacking moves. -----Art
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby fivedragons » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:41 am

Okay, let's say there is this big bad man. If you were a predator, how would you attack this man?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:18 am

thanks Art have watched a lot of your clips , and what comes through loud and clear is someone who's considered the tactics of making this stuff work , particularly I recall a clip were you show using just the part of block needed and getting straight to it .

I too teach attack the attack , and we go forward from there .

As to how to be a predator , that is scarily easy , but the escalation involved is perhaps a bit much to suggest on here , Van raises good points on what it would take to bring someone like this down . Ever met those idiots who claim to have won a hundred street fights , usually they mean they've assaulted 100 innocent folks unaware , people have differing ideas of a fight.

simple self protection things like stomping out the ankle , neck strikes and cranks etc though are probably the simplest , but the flurry and overwhelming surprise and force is the only real chance. Of course angle and position are the keys to advantage. You need to have some sharp weapons , A big shin kick a Vicous hammerfist etc that work all by themselves.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:44 pm

GEM
I write more about avoidance than engaging, in these no-win encounters. I captured three images involved in the first video. The "victim" is still unaware that anything is happening as the bad-guy is "loading" his sucker punch in the first image. In the second, the punch is on-the way and the victim is still completely unaware of what is happening. By the time the next FRAME of the clip is captured, the punch has landed and the victim in on his way to the floor. (A little bit like being hit head-on by a car coming at you in a two lane road)

How do you prepare and deal with either encounters? YOU DON"T! How do you avoid getting into either encounter? As soon as the drunk woman began acting up, leave the building and call police instead of trying to communicate with the woman or her boyfriend. Car situation? Hope your reflexes are very good!



Excellent points about avoidance, but we must remember that in many cases, and this is something I have been writing about for years as learned at the Lethal force Institute, is that for the majority of people caught in the heat of the moment of a stressful unfamiliar situation, there will be an adrenaline tide beginning to rise, and one of its downsides is that a person will experience moments of denial _ inability of thinking straight and of making the right decisions.

Some may remember my writing here of the case I handled in the south shore, where a number of customers in a bar/eatery were set upon by a bunch of bikers with baseball bats who destroyed the place and killed a hapless father of five kids sitting at a dinner table with the family.

It began when the Bikers walked in to drink at the bar. At one point the bartender shut them off as they were getting boisterous. [Smart customers sitting at the tables should have left the place at that point if not sooner] and certainly when the bikers threatened to come back and tear the place apart. A few did leave but most of them stayed in place waiting for their orders, quite oblivious to potential dangers. Sure enough 10 minutes later bikers come in with bats destroying the bar, beating up the bartender and clubbing customers at random eating their meals at the table.

Why did those customers stay instead of leaving? I interviewed some of the survivors, the reasons why 'they stayed put' would boggle the mind.

The bartender was the most stupid…he did not even call the police to report the threat of returning with destruction by the bikers…and for this reason alone our claims dept, realizing the liability potential, settled all the injury and death claims.

Look at the video clip again and you see people just standing there while the woman starts her tantrum and spitting, and even as the boyfriend beats up the phone guy…why are they just standing there? And why did no one intervene? Would any of us intervened? I asked this question but no one is answering it.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:04 pm

Stryke
how far back can we go to figure out that something is going wrong and how much earlier could the belligerent victim 8O :roll: of acted earlier , when does an observant person know this isn't going right and can choose to act retreat or defuse.

observe , orient , decide , act


This is a great point to keep in mind...because as I have written there will be delays in our mind from denial of any dangers to the self, along with inability to foresee situational complications...and in the case of a martial artist, who thinks he is tough, he might even have the thought that by leaving he is not being a 'man' while harboring delusions of grandeur.

Becoming a good martial artist also involves a study of human nature, something that Rory points out in his books that not all of us read, as we should.

I am not sure in the clip what lead to the fracas between the guy on the cell phone and the woman, maybe some of you do, but looking at the build up and the guy in the face of the woman, there you have the 'heat of the moment' thing
-where one becomes and idiot and is unable to 'Identify'- 'predict' _ 'decide' and 'execute' the best course of action. the 'IPDE' acronym.
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