Good talk on blocks

[Van Canna]

The smart way to train:

Sometimes
this takes the form of a simultaneous block and counter, sometimes
it takes the form of what a fencer would call a "stop hit", sometimes
it is a "block" which is *really* a limb destruction technique or
an unbalancing/throwing technique, and sometimes it takes the form of
avoiding the attack with body shifting.

[Van Canna]

The Alibi

Heated discussion now going on the Italian martial arts News group...very..very heated..

**

Two martial arts friends from the same dojo go out on the town for the evening.

One is driving his BMW; the other is a passenger in the right front seat.

They get cutoff by an irate driver and jammed up against the curb.

The irate driver jumps out, starts to spit at the left driver’s window of the BMW, kicks and punches the sheet metal of the left door and hood, leaving large dents, and challenges the driver or passenger to get out.

They don’t. They cannot move the BMW forward or backward, and remain inside frozen with fear.

The madman cracks the windshield with a hammer fist and takes off calling them yellow cowards.

They go home, feeling less than men, they stop going to the dojo after the taunts of the classmates, and try to cope with a number of alibis as to why they did not react.

~~~~

[Van Canna]

Here is a comment:

the most common characteristic of people is that of considering themselves as something extremely important and indispensable, thus, in every activity the dominant thought is “how will I gain from this”

The more they feed and enlarge their “ego”, the more, in reality, they isolate and weaken themselves, finding themselves “crushed” by their fears.

The image of the driver or passenger choosing to remain locked in the car, even as they felt the need to at least get out and ask for an “explanation” __ but now immobilized into “victim” status.

Either victim of others or of the self. Take your pick.

Considering the likely consequences of a fight if you get out of the car...what is the best choice?

[Van Canna]

The two were subjected to taunts from non martial arts friends as well.

So you are really dealing with the "human factor" in and out of the dojo.

In fact one the problems being discussed is how to cope with the "shame" they feel when looked down upon by the circle of their "regular friends".

Imagine you in the same predicament. Would you really expect people to understand that what you did was the tactically and legally sound thing to do?

Because those guys feel they have died inside.

So you get out get into a fight...you may end up dead or in jail.

But how do you sleep nights?

[Van Canna]

Laird>>

Violence is surrounded with an incredible amount of baggage.

The baggage for not engaging is every bit as harmful as the baggage that builds up with living around constant violence. It can eat at your soul

I don't discuss MA's with none MA people ....their expectations are unrealistic...
---------------
We are supposed to clear buildings in a single leap and be super human fighting machines.

Funny thing is when you do engage, then you become a "F"in animal.
Point is your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

We are the one who have to live with the consequences we get to carry the baggage of violence with us.

I guess I pretty much feel the hell with what folks sitting on the outside looking in think. They won't help with the baggage they just hand you more to carry.

Laird

[Van Canna]

Don Rearic »

More people need to know that "Real Men" and especially "Real Bad Men" look the same when the Trauma Surgeon has his arm up to the elbow in their armpit in the OR.

Does not matter if you are innocent Citizen, Police Officer or Bank Robber it all looks the same to the Surgeon.

This place is a very thought provoking place. I know that this way of thinking is certainly not a rarity.

They did the right thing and they should not be taunted for it. But you know how that goes...

Stultorum infinitus est numerus

Don Rearic

[Van Canna]

Even more insidious are the expectations one sets for himself subliminally… expectations that set us up for catastrophic failures at times. What’s to blame for this?

Maybe it is the gi's fault.

[Van Canna]

newguy »

Even more insidious are the expectations one sets for himself subliminally… expectations that set us up for catastrophic failures at times. What’s to blame for this?

My $0.02:

1. First person(s) to blame for unrealistic expectations? Themselves. Maybe that's harsh - but the information is out there if you have the will to seek it.

2. Seond person(s) - their teacher(s). If they were indeed taunted by their Dojo mates then I would hazard a guess that what's being taught in there is not necessarily reality based.

"Dying ain't much of a living boy." J. Wales

newguy

[Van Canna]

NEB »

I'm curious about one thing. We know how these two men's fellow students reacted to them, but what about their sensei?

What instruction and/or guidance did they receive from the one who is responsible for telling them what to do in that situation?

Not that your teacher is in charge of making your decisions for you, but they should have something to say about it.

Like, "When taken over by a gripping, almost incapacitating fear, here are some pointers..."

Because part of learning to fight is learning TO fight.

MHO

nb

[Van Canna]

CANDANeh »


The irate driver jumps out, starts to spit at the left driver's window of the BMW, kicks and punches the sheet metal of the left door and hood, leaving large dents, and challenges the driver or passenger to get out.

He was the predator they became the prey. Two against one put him as a poor predator and he should have failed.

But, he knew the typical owners of such cars were well socialized, unlike some of us who drive pickups with bumper stickers "at least it is paid for" or " My wife? Yes. My dog? Maybe. My Dodge? Never!

"he would have the edge in his pumped up state. (he was one frame ahead of them). The words "Lets get him!" could have changed the outcome by realizing it was an attack against two not one.

"Battle cries" are meant to unite the group IMHO. It was needed in this case to shake them from their isolation. No one started to beat the war drum.

CANDANeh

[Van Canna]

CANDANeh »

Now, if they would have accepted the fact that the attacker was an idiot and agreed the best action was none, that`s better for the self confidence. I have backed down from individuals and it was a choice with no excusses. Therefore, in my mind I won.

I have fought and failed but it is fine as I learned from it well and was not "prey". I refuse to be treated as prey as it would destroy the person I have to live with which is me.

However, there are times to stand down as any wise "predator" should in order to survive.

Standing down should not rip your heart out, instead it can encourage you to be stronger_ "live to fight another day" .

You cut me off, you smashed my car and I assumed you must be armed...

but I followed you home_ you seen me drive past smiling as you get out of your car.

Your heart beats in your head and you fumble your keys_ you led me to your den..sleep well

[Van Canna]

Good point...if you are being followed....never go home...do go to any police station you know...or do go into a shopping mall parking lot...

or call 911 on the cell phone and tell them you are being followed by a maniac.

[Van Canna]

Valkenar »

Maybe the best thing to do is overcome the idea that fighting somehow makes you manlier. Cultivating a mindset based on the idea that it's the guy who starts the fight that is the lesser person could help some people to relieve feelings of inadequacy for not having gotten in a fight.

Then again, it's one thing to tell yourself "the fact that he's beating on the hood means he's a childish idiot" and another to make it enough a part of your worldview that you believe it without having to consciously say it to yourself.

A lot of the aftermath psychology here seems rooted in trying to establish or defend your sense of manhood. It may not be possible for everyone, but if you can overcome the need to worry about whether you're a real man or not, then you don't feel bad for avoiding fights.

I don't think it's absolutely inevitable that backing down from a fight will make you feel inadequate.

- Justin Powell

[Van Canna]

But then 'emotional high jacking' sets in.

I agree, and we should all strive to achieve this healthy emotional state. But at times it isn’t you that makes you feel inadequate, it is your friends and family, or dojo mates that will make you feel like a second class citizen.

Also, we must understand that the great majority of martial arts students got started because they probably took a beating or backed down from confrontations.

So after training..and still backing down..can do some funny things to your head.

No easy answers.

[Van Canna]

CANDANeh »

I don't think it's absolutely inevitable that backing down from a fight will make you feel inadequate.

If you backed down for the reason(s) you believe in then what others say to lower your status should have no effect.

In the case of the "BMW boys", they are effected deeply because they were forced to back down and indications are they regretted it as they made excuses and it became uncomfortable in facing their peers.

They not only became the target of an attack but they are suffering through significant self doubt because they were unprepared to deal with the attack, even though they may have actually reacted properly.

Candaneh