Good talk on blocks

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:26 pm

“if someone says, “Shut the ##### up or I’m going to beat your ass,” and it escalates into a fight you will have real trouble proving self-defense... because you didn’t simply shut the ##### up. Self-defense is about defending your body, not your pride. If this threat display devolves into a fight, you were engaged in the Monkey Dance. You were not defending yourself. •”

― Rory Miller, Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:27 pm

“Whether the person you are dealing with is playing a Monkey dominance game or is a pure predator, he wants to deal with a Monkey. When you are in your Monkey brain you are emotional and most of all predictable. Predators (rapists, robbers, murderers--but also the cold-blooded corporate ladder climber) thrive on this and count on you following your social scripts.”

― Rory Miller, ConCom: Conflict Communication A New Paradigm in Conscious Communication

“You might well be an ass. If people regularly dislike you “for no reason” there is a reason and it is you.”

― Rory Miller, ConCom: Conflict Communication A New Paradigm in Conscious Communication
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:02 pm

“Last thing--there is a universal way to see who you are, if you have the courage. You are reflected in your friends.

If you have no friends, or all of your friends are asses… it’s you. You’re an ass.

Hate to be the one to tell you. If, on the other hand, you look at your friends and feel humble that people so cool are willing to spend time with you--in that case you are doing well. Just don’t get smug.”

― Rory Miller, ConCom: Conflict Communication A New Paradigm in Conscious Communication
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:05 pm

“Just as women do not have the ritual of dominance-based violence, they also lack the built-in safety. In other words, if you are dealing with a female threat, she will be seeking to do damage, not to show who is boss.

In my experience, women gouge for eyes, bite, and try to cut the face with their fingernails far more often than men. Second, if you are a woman dealing with a male threat, he can still Monkey Dance at you and perceive you to be challenging him. A significant percentage of the males who prey on women are seeking to safely establish dominance over somebody. In that case, when a woman fights back the man will react very violently.

In his mind, a victim specially chosen to be weak enough to guarantee his validation as a dominator has seen him as weak enough to challenge. A man fighting another man for dominance will try to beat him, but a man who thinks that he is fighting a woman for dominance will be seeking to punish her.

Punishment is much worse. Third, there are specific reactions to violence that most women have absorbed at a very young age that profoundly affect their ability to defend themselves. You see this in victims who flirt with or compliment their attacker: “You’re so handsome you don’t need to rape.”

And you see it in women who struggle instead of fight. Women are used to handling men in certain ways, with certain subconscious rules—social ways, not physical ones. These systems are very effective within society and not effective at all when civilization is no longer a factor, such as in a violent assault or rape.

On a deep level, most women feel at a gut level that if they fight a man he will escalate the situation to a savage beating, punishment for her challenge to his “manhood.” They feel this way because it is true.

This is a hard thing to write. Years ago, before I learned to just listen, a friend told me her story. It had been several days and most of the swelling had gone down. She told me about the rape and the beating.

I asked her if she had fought. Not my business and decades of experience later I would have just listened, but I was young and believed that there were more right and wrong answers than there are.

She shook her head and said, “I was afraid he’d hurt me if I fought.”


― Rory Miller, Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training & Real World Violence
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:08 pm

“Understand this: Once you trigger the other person’s limbic system, he or she cannot process your facts. Nor will they process the facts until after the Monkey issues have been resolved.

No matter how right you are, no matter how unassailable your facts. Those are Human concerns and the Monkey trumps the Human. Had I the knowledge or the skill, all the resistance my ineptness triggered was not only avoidable but manipulable.

Everything was predictable. Had I walked into the office and said, “Captain, I know I’m just a tactical guy, but I saw that memo and I had this idea. I don’t know anything about budgets but it made sense to me, so I’d appreciate it if you’d take a look at it and see if I’m completely off base.

“I know I should have gone through the chain of command, but I figured you were the only one up here who wouldn’t laugh at me if I was wrong…” I know I’m just a tactical guy.

In the captain’s role as protector of the future of the agency, starting by saying that I know where I belong and I’m happy there doesn’t trigger the status check.

I’d appreciate it if you’d take a look… Take a memo and tell one boss, “Sir, I have just solved all your problems” and that boss will shut you down.

Take the exact same memo and tell a different boss, “Could you help me with this?” and he will be flattered.

If you want the Monkey out of the way, whenever possible raise the status of the person you are dealing with.”


― Rory Miller, ConCom: Conflict Communication A New Paradigm in Conscious Communication
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:18 am

Yeah...but can you do it?

We all think we will be capable to take on anybody just because we have some 'long time' Uechi training and some high Dan rank reflecting off the belt we wear. We all have our stories...the fights we might have won, or will win against any opponent...you name it.

Tom Givens writes
I was talking with some buddies of mine and said kind of the same thing. If I'm sitting in a restaurant I look around at the people sitting near and size them up.

"if the guy behind me that looks like a football player goes crazy, what will I do?" that kind of thing.

They thought I was nuts to have that kind of thought process at all. Nice to see that I'm not the only person the looks at everybody and says, "If I had to fight this person what would I do?"


Would you really take on a mean 'Biker' character?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:20 am

You must prepare for 'asocial violence'.

Most confuse
asocial with anti-social behavior.

For clarification, asocial
violence is unavoidable -- the dirtbag is going to jump you and
do violence without ANY provocation.

Anti-social behavior is the
obnoxious drunk who harasses you at a baseball game and instead
of you leaving or getting security to handle the situation, you
opt to take matters into your own hands.

Asocial does not give you an option to use violence. Either you
use it... or violence will be done to you.



Anti-social behavior
gives YOU the choice to disengage -- which is ALWAYS the smart
move. Unfortunately people often confuse the two, treating
asocial as anti-social and vice versa.

You should train to deal with the asocial violence of the
sociopath... and KNOW the difference... so you don't participate
in the avoidable anti-social behavior of others.
[Tim Larkin]
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:52 am

Then the famous Jeff Cooper tells us why so many times people will just freeze despite any 'fighting training'
"Any man who is a man may not, in honor, submit to
threats of violence. But many men who are not cowards
are simply unprepared for acts of human savagery. They
have not thought about it (incredible as this may
appear to anyone who reads the papers or listens to
the news)and they just don't know what to do. When
they look right into the face of depravity and
violence they are astonished and confounded"


-Jeff Cooper

The black belt champion who was assaulted in the dark stairway and had his throat cut by a Jamaican gang banger was unable to mount any kind of defense for the reasons Cooper outlines. Be careful of thoughts processes that will kill you.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:03 am

Once, while investigating a serious auto accident in Rhode Island, and engaged in a scene canvass for witnesses, I approached a barroom on the side of the road.

It was closed but as I got to its front door I felt and 'evil mantle' emanating from it. I questioned a passerby asking if he knew what time the bar would open so I could ask if anyone in there might have witnessed the accident.

The person said, with a worried look on his face,
Look behind you on the hill, man...you don't want any part of that bar...this is Hell's Angels territory.


As I turned and looked up...I saw at a distance of about 100 yards, a ramshackle 'Club house' with a huge sign out front...HELL'S ANGELS....

Now let's see how many Uechi 'tough guys' think they could have handled themselves in a Hell's Angels Bar.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:42 am

Rory Miller wrote in his blog that blocking and striking, even as done simultaneously …are ‘sparring/dueling artifacts’… not self defense…because assaults happen in a flurry of damage…and in order for a simultaneous block and strike to work, you would have to be not only twice as fast as the threat but have reactions that are faster than actions.

He feels the math does not work, and the reason why we get away with it in drills is because we are practicing against ‘feeds’ not attacks.

That both blocking and striking must be aimed and executed and are thus two separate moves, two separate thoughts.

One of the problems that becomes evident, he writes, is that ‘one cannot win on defense’…”if you block an incoming strike, the opponent remains free to make another attack.

You will find this article very interesting on how to train to remedy the problem.

https://ymaa.com/articles/2016/09/drill-the-one-step
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:56 am

The other problem you need to keep uppermost in your mind is that there will be opponents likely to be a threat to you, that you will never succeed in stopping regardless of any self thoughts of 'deadly prowess' you have come to believe you possess.

Think of the Bikers/Hell's angels ...I mentioned above...or more simply...someone who is much bigger and stronger/younger than you, and will really get p-issed off if you hit him without taking the fight out of him.

Thus Rory's quip
do not practice dying either


Think about it. Look around as you are out in the world and 'scope out' possible opponents...you will learn many truths about the self.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:02 am

Take 2: Can non-lethal methods be dangerous?

MikeK »

I've stated on the forums before that I find the non-harming techniques I learned from CDT to be an option that I really like to have in my toolbox. Having some useful techniques at the low end of the Force Continuum is IMO a real good thing.

On the flip side I learned while training on how to deal with an out of control female was that sometimes trying to not harm someone can result in more injury to both parties.

Here is a description of the techniques used from a case currently working it's way through the courts. These sound like the same techniques that I learned and trained.

"Videotape of the incident showed "Mr. X" being forced to the ground by various methods, including knees to the thigh, pressure points to his ear and punches to his arms."

Also add into that according to another account an arm bar and a wrist lock. The sad outcome is that these methods didn't seem to control "Mr. X" enough and a chemical method was used that may have resulted in the death of "Mr. X".

I'd like to hear if anybody else trains the low end of the FC, and if they include in their scenario training how a situation can sometimes escalate from low to high, back to low again.

So from training and experience what are the dangers of non-lethal techniques?

I hope this post makes some sense. :lol:

I was dreaming of the past...
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:06 am

RA Miller »

Mike-

There's a lot going on in any serious fight. There are mental, emotional, physical and neurohormonal issues that can affect how one fights and how they respond.

Nothing is 100% safe any more than it is a 100% effective.

Mechanically, there are physical conditions where the rib is prone to breaking. If a kid who is an excellent athlete can die from a random rib break that punctures his lung or liver while jogging, how can you prevent that in a fight? Or someone who has an aneurism building?


A lot of the lower level restraint techniques tire people out by putting pressure on the diaphragm. Most people give up when they get tired.

Some don't until they pass out, and you may be stressing the body while you haven't yet noticed they've gone limp.

For that matter, in a really ugly fight (you can't see, you and maybe some other people are trying to hold down a fighting, thrashing kid) could you tell the difference between a second wind with more frantic fighting and a seizure?

Just by feel when you are scared and already in a fight?

We rely on pain techniques and mass/leverage to prevent hurting someone- if someone doesn't feel pain (or they do and it triggers a total fear panic fight response) more pressure will eventually result in injury.

Some threats injure themselves flopping (not just threats: in one incident I injured my neck and in another both shoulders cause I thought I had a really cool way to either escape from a hold or do a gymnastics maneuver).

And that's not getting into less lethal technology, some of the tools that we have to try to prevent hands-on force and the big wrestling match. I shot one crazy, barricaded subject with a rubber bullet that was rated to be safe at five feet. It blew a hole in him as big as my thumb at 15.

In your own area a girl was killed by something that was specifically designed not to kill- the FN303 that basically fires paintball rounds filled with pepper powder.

When you are fighting, there is always a chaos factor and flukes happen in chaos. IF you are going to use force to put someone down, there is no 100% safe to do it, not perfectly safe for you or the threat.

Rory
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:14 am

When you read what Rory wrote, you begin to realize how bad and scary reality fights really are...night and day from the safety and illusions of dojo work ...sparring...or tournament 'fighting'...

Keep thinking of the tournament champion who was so grisly executed in the attack of the darkened stairway landing by the Jamaican gang banger.[A case I investigated]...

As Rory warns...'Don't practice dying' ...remember what Rory also wrote...that some people shot ten times have kept on coming and killed the guy with the gun.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:49 pm

Rory Miller

http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2014 ... lists.html

The Golden Move +1
My standard for any combative motion, for a long time, has been the Golden Move:
Every single motion should:

1.Injure the threat
2.Protect yourself
3.Improve your position
4.Worsen the threat's position

That's every single motion. Because it is easier to teach, many martial artists learned to strike (injure the threat) or unbalance (worsen the threat's position); learned to block or evade (protect yourself); and learned footwork (better your position, sometimes worsen the threat's)-- but almost all learned them as three separate things.
R Miller
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