Good talk on blocks

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:44 am

gary6dan »

Reacting too late can result in recieving a first blow, or reacting to soon out of fear (fight or flight) misjudgment in anothers intent as result of being emotionally charged up, can cause one to be to quick to act.

Who knows how one might react under stress at close range that is potentially dangerous ? Certainly we can outline how one "should" assess the situation. That distancing and good judgment needs to be used.

Everyone will not remain calm and in control when feeling threatened. There is the potential for over reaction and early engagement when not called for. Hell, people overeact in traffic (road rage) and do crazy things. Staying in control is sometimes challenging and more and more, people lose it.
There are consequences when this happens.

Your "justified" in taking action the moment that you preceive yourself to be in direct physical danger....BUT, be very aware that what "you" feel is fully justified at the specific time/place will probably look VERY different to a group of people in a courtroom.


Anything is possible. Reaching for a cell phone could very well happen if one feels "emotionally highjacked" with fear of engagement. An effort to dial 911 hoping to convince you to not harm him if you so implied that you would or in hopes to have police rush to ones aid.

Just the possibly of a thought out scenario's being one example. Hell, if someone reached into their coat in the middle of an escalating verbal conflict, I may react as though a gun or knife is being reached for.

It is just a concern that if one does not "read" the body language correctly and is emotionally and physically ready and waiting to act, he very well may react to quickly.


Providing you have a presence about yourself that is projecting confidence and control, I find that distancing and verbal attempt to shut down the confrontation usually works. As I do not think that most people really "want" to fight as much as vent out anger or fustration and take it out on someone.


One thing that most of us should ask ourselves is _ assuming we get through to the opponent with a pre-emptive strike_ do we really have the knock down power_ the stopping power_ to shut the opponent down_ or will we make him more pissed off and more determined to now take your head off?

I think that this is a very valid point. As we discussed this last night. many of us feel that we can, but we do not know what the opponent is capable of. How good we really are depends upon who we are up against. ie: A worthy opponent.

Respectfully,

Gary S.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:50 am

No such thing as a single strike... Or shouldn't be...


Well, single strike or multiple strikes to stop someone.... if one is up against a ‘bone crusher’ of opponent_ [ We have a couple such scary guys like that at the Shinkokai] he will swat those multiple strikes away like bothersome mosquitoes, trap you into a bear hug and grind you into the pavement.

If you wish to engage at all, be sure of what you are bringing to the enemy, shouldn’t be a bouquet of flowers.

And are you really capable of 'hurting an opponent' with your techniques?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:52 am

fivedragons »

Nobody seems to have responded to Fred's observation. What if the psychology of the kata just isn't congruent with the intent of someone trying to fight their way to freedom.

It wouldn't really be helpful for someone who isn't a highly trained and motivated assassin to learn a bunch of movements that would only apply to that mindset.

After all, if the psychology of the movements isn't congruent with the intent of the person practicing them, the results might not be so good.

Might cause someone to freeze, when they could have blocked, evaded, and run away, gross motor movement fueled by the pure animal intent of the socialized and non aggressive human being.

Who are the people who come to karate? Do we want to pretend we can transform everyone into some kind of invulnerable James Bond?

Or do we want to give innocent and gentle people the skills they can develop according to their perceived need, to help them become strong and learn about the abilities, physical and mental, they may not even think they have.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:54 am

fivedragons »

I remember reading something from Marc MacYoung on this forum about how he teaches people to fight to escape, and how this mindset causes them to be much more effective and commited to their movements than if they were trying to pretend they were bad guys with a predatory mindset.

Makes sense.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:56 am

I think the theory behind the 'pretend' is to sharpen the ability to 'read' what may be about to go down and map an escape sooner in the subconscious.

Good theory as also touched upon by Lt Strong in his book 'Strong On Defense' a great book I detailed here many years back.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:00 am

f.Channell »

Van brings up a great point with the interview.

Certainly clues to someones intent through body language, or tone or language they are using on you can give you a telegraph of their intent.

Of course if someone told a guy you hit on his girl, and you have no idea of this, it might be a grab of your shoulder spinning you around to a sucker punch. This happened to my nephew years ago, broke his jaw.

That would be hard to see coming, unless you walk around in a state of alert all day.

F.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:05 am

Well, in one of my cases investigating a serious injury in a brawl at a house party... I had this guy and his wife in a miniskirt... sitting as guests on a sofa.

Another unknown guest kept eyeing the wife then asked the husband ‘Hey how did you two meet?’

Husband in a calm manner asks the guest into the dining room, next room over, to talk about ‘something’ and ‘blam’ a sucker punch at three feet range, that knocks him down_ then husband proceeds to grind guest’s face into a floor heating/AC vent_ badly disfiguring him.

Things can happen when you least expect it out of nowhere. Look at the way traffic road rage goes.

You are minding your business driving around, then some punk in a pick up truck decides to hassle you, awakening your killer's instinct.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:08 am

gary6dan »

While certainly there are situations that justify the need to engage or take preempted actions, we are as also noted on other threads, held to higher standards as "martial artist". I tend to believe that those of considerably higher dan ranks would be subjected to even higher scrutiny.

In recent viewing of a t.v court case being of a civil matter, that was in reference to a physical confrontation, what was questioned more than the actual "engagement" itself was the actions and behaviour of the involved people prior to the engagement.

While the judge clearly indicated that one persons actions were not appropriate and confrontational, the other person did have "other" alternatives to avoid the confrontation. [Preclusion]

While many of us in verbal disagreements may feel that we must hold our ground, it is the "actions" that we take in seeking other alternatives that will be often determined in the outcome of a court hearing.

As also pointed out previously, we must have the skills to handle situations and be able to determine the "alternatives" if any, that exist.

So even where one may feel the need to engage and/or use preempted measures, there may still be consequences.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:11 am

gary6dan »

Van,

Are we all wired that way ?

Why is it that the blasting horn or agressive driver in your rear view mirror makes one want to respond and take action ? "Read alert" is instant in many situations that others appear to be non responsive to. Is that contributed to our years of training and "awareness" or "mindset" that potential danger exsist ?

As often I question, is it the consequences of actions that encourage many of us to hold onto that control, that otherwise might not be present ? Oh no, it must be that we are a "civilized" human race. :roll:

I can not help but notice the lack of common courtesy that has diminished over the years. In the fast past society of which we live that is so demanding, and often emotionally charged, is it no wonder that challenging words and actions of others appear to be more exsistent than before ?

Or has it always been that way, only that with more people today, there are more .......... amoungst us ? Hmmmmm.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:15 am

As to the driving problem

by Dr. Leon James

Driving psychology has discovered that the driver behind the wheel has to manage three aspects of the self-the driver's feelings, the driver's thinking, and the driver's sensory-motor actions.


These three systems of the self must coordinate and act together or else the driver loses control in a situation. The feeling system includes the driver's attitudes, needs, and motivation.


The thinking system includes the driver's knowledge, memory, and reasoning capacity. The sensory-motor system includes the driver's sensory input and motor output, and all of the driver's actions.


When everything goes well the driver has full control over the three systems of the self. What disturbs this balance?

Let's consider an example. You're driving along and all goes well. Your threefold self is coordinating properly. Your feeling system is held steady by your motivation.

You're motivated to get to your destination without unnecessary delays and you bring into play your attitudes of caution and concentration.

Your thinking system cooperates with your motivation. You keep in mind the rules of the road, you follow the procedures you've been taught, and you correctly anticipate the moves of other vehicles.

Your sensory-motor system coordinates what you see and hear, and executes the necessary motions with your hands, legs, head, and body.

All of a sudden a four-wheeler passes you in the left lane and is speeding up to get to an exit just ahead. You say to yourself he should have waited behind you to take the exit and not try to pass at this point.

You see the car turn on its indicator to get back into the right lane. You are suddenly seized with a feeling of annoyance. Your feeling system is quickly heating up with intense emotions of rage and condemnation.

Your thinking system floods with thoughts like "What an idiot. Etc." Your sensory-motor system responds by holding the speed steady.


And so you're now in a new situation. It's no longer a normal situation. An incident is happening. What are you going to do next? You have a choice of two ways to react to the situation, one dangerous, the other safe .

The dangerous mode is to tie together in your mind your angry feeling with prejudiced thinking. The result is high risk behavior and a short-lived adrenalin high.


The other option is lay aside the prejudiced thinking and reason it out in a fair-minded way. Instead of anger you now feel zeal and compassion. Zeal is an intense positive feeling focused on coping rather than retaliating.


Anger is an intense negative feeling focused on retaliating and punishing rather than coping with a difficult situation.


Anger ties itself to prejudiced thinking that serves to justify your aggressiveness, while zeal ties itself to fair-minded thinking that serves to cope with the situation. Coping is behavior that is safe and protective of everyone's welfare. Thus it has compassion within it.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:18 am

Tim Larkin

I was watching an Instructor Class the other night
with one of my great friends from the fighting world
and we discussed how difficult it is to talk about
fighting to most people.

This difficultly lies in the fact that my definition
of fighting is very different from most "fighters".
When someone tells me they know how to fight, that
triggers in my mind numerous examples of specific
methods of inflicting trauma on the human body with
the goal being the destruction of other guys.

In the rare instance when I decide to speak about
fighting in a social situation, I usually regret doing
so. Quickly I see that most people are uncomfortable
with my very calm descriptions of the effective use of
violence.

Most people get caught up in the surreal aspects of
violence that permeate society today... the WWF or
video game fake violence... as opposed to learning how
to methodically deliver systematic strikes to
vulnerable parts of the human body with the goal being
the total destruction of the other guy.

People always comment on how friendly and
approachable I am -- as well as my instructors. They
are confused, I'd guess, because most of the martial
arts and combat sport world is dominated by aloof
personalities who seem more concerned you recognize
their 'rank' rather than answer your questions.

I tell clients all the time that the more trained
you are to deal with real violence, the more
emotionally relaxed life you live... and the more you
get to enjoy life experiences and people.

There's much less need to use false aggression in
your demeanor to give off that 'I'm intimidating'
message. That is an Effect-State(tm) (and fear-based)
protection mechanism that is mildly effective but
takes a huge emotional toll to pull off.

This is yet another reason to seek out competent
training in hand-to-hand combat. By facing the fact
violence exists and learning how to effectively use
violence, you truly free yourself from unnecessary
fear in your day-to-day living.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:21 am

We all should send for the book 'The Dark Side of Man' _ I did upon recommendations from Wes Tasker.

You won't believe what's in there that we all either took for granted or never understood correctly.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:24 am

The ‘dark side of man’ really gets into this.

It talks of the subtleties of the old mammalian brain and of rage being an overwhelming, primal , out of control response to someone taking something from us, property, a loved one, our self esteem.

The interesting thing being that rage can erupt in response to a trivial or even imagined injury.

Now and then we see manifestations of this on the forums by the way certain individual have behaved in the past.

Here is a test: Use your powers of visualization…visualize strongly that _

You are standing in line …a long slow -moving line. One snaking across the hot asphalt in the scorching sun.

This line and the waiting you are doing are really taking a toll on you physically and mentally, but it is absolutely necessary for you to be there.

Beads of sweat sting your eyes, people around you smell bad are smoking cigars, and one big fat guy just behind you is enveloping your space with the stench of his malodorous breath.

Little kids continuously bump into your legs, you are thirsty, need to relieve yourself, but there is no latrine/rest room in sight.

You have been in this line much, much longer than you think is reasonable, you also know that you are too far back in line and the doors into the cool airiness of the building ahead will close and lock for the day and you will miss out on a very important opportunity. _

Ok_ so are in that line you just visualized? Good.

You have been in it for over an hour now, and at this point you’d rather be anywhere else on earth.

Someone cuts in front of you. He is a real jerk, one of the jerks you are accustomed to meet now and then in a pick up truck, in a mall.

He doesn’t even make an apology; he thinks he can just get away with it. You think: why did he pick me to get in front of?

After you have been waiting patiently in a muggy toxic cloud, he simply gives you a ‘you are a pushover’ look: ‘you’re nothing. I can step all over you’ _

How are you feeling now? More important, what would you like to do to that guy right now?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:22 am

gary6dan »

Van,

Certainly this is a situation I do not wish to be in. Be it as it may, You are !

Quick asessment of the individual acknowledges his size, strength and look in the eyes. I carry no weapons on my person and even if you did, can you get it out from where you might have it and effectively use it ?

The first thoughts are, "enagagement" is percieved as possibly life threatening. As he looks capable of doing damage.

One thing you must not show is, any fear or lack of confidence for surely he will see it as weakness. Possibly a firm word stating that you have been in line for 1 hr and he can not just cut in like that, may be sufficient. As his looks may be intimidating, he may acknowledge your presence and move on. However, you know that in saying something, you may very well have to back it up.

The physical assessment has already been made. The target areas are limted as the body is of mass muscle content, the size and weight is approximately 240lb or more, he appears potentially dangerous, there is no access to neck strikes as he basically has "no neck".

The groin might be an initial shot to weaken him but, head strikes to vital areas is all that appears to be optional. For arm locks, controlling techniques, entering and sticking etc. It is not happening !

A shot to the knee may be damaging if you can break it in one shot.

Can you get an eye strike (gouge) in before landing a few hits to the head ? Can you accurately and powerfully connect to the temple, jaw or center mass of face and do enough damage to put him down ?

If you can not put him down, he will most likely do serious harm to you. Is this potential confrontation worth engagement ? Obviously, preempted action must on "red alert". Are you willing to engage or should you say nothing ? Is the confrontaion worth engagement over space, ego, pride etc. ?

Is there a weapon within reach ? Possibly a rock, brick, steel bar etc. Can I kill him if need be ? If I do, will I go to prison and be found as the aggresor for saying something initially ? If I can't defeat him will I survive and how badly might I get injured.

Many thoughts, all within seconds. :roll:

What would others do, think or say ? How would others react, assess and respond to the situation ? Of course it is easy to "think" what one might do vs. what they actually would do not from behind a P.C. :D

Now if you are 260lbs of mass and intimidating in appearence, he woud not challenge you nor might you have the same concerns and/or fears as an average person.

When a tractor trailer meets a sedan, the sedan is getting demolished. Can a smaller person defeat one of considerable size and strength who is emotionally unstable ? Will all your martial arts training suffice at the moment of truth ?

Many say that size does not matter. I beg to differ as I have been against a few and they hit much harder than smaller guys. Mass + speed = power !


Respectfully,

Gary S.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:27 am

Going back to the visualization, the point of the ‘dark side of man’ book... is that rage can erupt even in an imagined injury, and this imagined scenario has already _ automatically _ secreted the spate of hormones that fuel rage, just by reading, imagining yourself in that situation.

I bet some of us would like to do something extreme, a few even consider homicide. How many identify with the leopard foaming at the mouth?

The book goes on to say that, intriguingly, the old mammalian brain cannot distinguish between justified and _utterly unjustified _ rage from an imagined scenario, such as this, when we conceive of an insult or injury.

Just thinking about the last punk in a pickup truck that tailgated you, flashed his lights and passed you just to cut you off, triggers a mini/cocktail.

It goes on: rage is automatic_ what is not automatic is what we do about it.

And that fear is the most crippling of emotions. Fear is the reaction that realistically or not, that a thing will hurt us, physically, legally, economically, morally.

The amygdala does not discriminate; it simply reacts by sending fear commands to every other part of the brain. It even overrides our rational prefrontal cortex which knows that we can overcome any fear through de-learning by taking action.

And it is these automatic reactions to fear that turn us into temporary supermen, as we see them in all mammals, epitomized in the ‘proverbial cornered rat’ _

Ok_ so we can now play the game with the bastard who cut in line in front of you, and looks at you smirking, knowing you are afraid of him, his size, his defiance.
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