Good talk on blocks

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:19 pm

Mark W from Australia>>
Van,
I recently had an occurrence that got me thinking about the parallels between a physical’ attack and a ‘mental’ attack.

A few nights back I was picking up some groceries from a local mall. I’d had a terrible nights sleep and a bad day at work and I was in a really low mental state.

While walking along in a daze I was collared by one of those ‘hard sell’ type sales guys operating out of a booth in the middle of the mall.

Usually I am polite but firm with these guys but almost before I knew it I had signed a contract for a credit card I didn’t need.

I shocked myself because this was something I would never do under normal circumstances. I continued shopping but I started to get mad at myself for being ‘suckered’ into something I didn’t want.

After a short while I went back and asked for the contract I had signed and tore it up.

While talking to my wife about it I considered how in a way it was kind of like a street confrontation. You’re minding your own business in a street, bar, whatever and your train of thought is broken by a question (the hook)

Salesman: “Excuse me sir, may I ask you a question?”

Thug: “What are you looking at?”

If you stop and engage in a dialogue at this point you will be on the back foot.
The salesman has a set goal in mind and a plan of how to get there.

Whereas you have been walking along thinking about your shopping. The salesman presses his advantage by dumping a whole lot of information about his product on you and asking you a lot of questions.

You are mentally kept ‘off balance’ until the salesman sees the right time to get you to sign the paper, buy the product, etc.

Once I was hooked by the first salesman another two came over to help with the hard sell.

They were very cocky, overfriendly and went straight to first names. However when I returned the situation was almost completely reversed. I had a purpose and my return was not part of the plan.

When they saw me walking toward the booth they looked disapointed and all tried to avoid me. I walked up to the first salesman I had talked to asked for my contract back. This time I was initiating the dialogue and he was on the back foot.

Me: “Give me the contract I signed”
Him: “Why, (stalling).. I can’t find it”
Me: “How did you lose it? Please find it.”
Him: “I’m not allowed to give it to you”
Me: “Why not?”

Later I tried to justify my mental weakness by saying to myself that I was tired, stressed, distracted, etc. But like a street confrontation, that’s when their likely to get you, isn’t it?

I hope this makes sense and is not too far off topic.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:24 pm

Whether you are approached by aggressive salesmen, overzealous people in perceived position of ‘power’ _ real or imagined, whether you are under mental or physical attack, you are up against ‘ritual combat’ of “old” _

It is very difficult to say “NO” or to even send “NO” signals because we inwardly fear sending negative messages which may cause us to be disliked by a total stranger. We seek approval in all we do and say from anyone, by word or look.

I am very familiar with “mall attacks” by “kiosk commandoes” _

It is a control game. You give signals of your willingness to be “engaged” and they go to work on you.

When a “No” is offered tentatively and without “Soul conviction” it becomes a word that can be “negotiated” by the person who now chooses not to hear it for control purposes.

With strangers, even those with the best intentions, never ever relent on the issue of “no” because it sets the stage for more efforts to control.

If you let someone talk you out of the word “no” you might as well wear a sign that reads “ You are in charge _


Your “vacillation” is sensed on a verbal or psychological plane and your ‘adversary’ wrests control away from you. This is seen often when dealing with car salesmen; it is a control game.

Usually what happens when someone fails to accept “no” is for you to give ever-weakening refusals and then give in.

If a person gives you reason to feel apprehensive, such as a pushy salesperson, security guard, boss from hell, or even an overbearing sensei, during a “negotiation” stage, remember that negotiations are about “possibilities” and your providing access to someone who makes you uncomfortable, usually will bury you emotionally, or worse.

Sometimes the best and not offensive way is to say, "Sorry I am in hurry" and just keep going no matter what is said in return.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:27 pm

MIKED >>
Van,

I had to testify at an arbitration this past week and prior to that had my deposition taken. The opposing counsel is a "bulldog" with no regard for tact. if you know what I mean. He is an expert at unmasking vulnerabilities and exploiting these.

I knew our side was in the right and I knew that my words were true and that he was blowing smoke and obfuscating the facts throughout the entire process.

I thought the cross-exam would be difficult but due to my training I was told that I was a 'perfect' witness. I remained calm, cool, comfortable, relaxed and "in control".

I also used the Uechi stare on the opposing counsel and spoke at a pace which broke up his rhythm. He wasn't used to that or being stared down.

Mike
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:31 pm

gary6dan »

Van,

You bring out some excellent points in your post. Having been in various situations that you make reference, I can say that it is all true.

Having been pulled into the car business for several years, (that I hated) we were taught to go to first name basis, establish common ground, (home town, kids, sports, interest etc.) and wear down the customer who says "no" or I need to think about it.
Persistence was taught as was adapting "strategy" to each situation. The more time spent establishing rapport, the better the chance to close.

This is very common in "commission sales" and sales reps with "quota's" to meet. Also as you suggest, similar methods are used by just about everyone who wants to get something from you.

The best way to avoid getting sucked into things is to firmly say "no thanks" immediately and ignore further attempts to "soften you up". Walk away.........

We now have "Lead generators" in retails stores approaching everyone for consumer credit cards, Home services etc. Understanding it as a business opportunity to seek out store sales, the same friendly smile and "working you" process is utilized.

In the pursuit of business and/or financial gain, their is technique and strategy used in the game..............

Gary
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Yup...I run into them at Home Depot and even at food markets...and I won't even talk about the Kiosk commandos at the malls.

Sometimes while there with not much to do...I practice walking by them with an 'attitude' and a mean expression on my face...most of the times they won't approach me...

I have also tried this with beggars/street hustlers just for fun.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:36 pm

Lets see : remember the denial response ? As taught by luminaries as Mas Ayoob and master combat instructor John Farnam , this is one of the most prevalent armed conflict trauma effect ! How many times has our life been threatened lately ? Not many , maybe never !

But when it suddenly occurs , the event is so far removed from your ordinary orderly life that your brain will not let you believe it is actually happening to you ! People also go in denial of this denial syndrome !

Under deadly encounter mental faculties become degraded , complex tactics and survival response mechanisms are suppressed ; the assailant is just as nervous as you are , his finger will be on the trigger , he is probably tripping on some substance ; if he as much as reads your signals wrong , you will catch a bullet or two !

Okay ; under stress we revert back to basic techniques we have practiced thousands of time ? How many times have we practiced disarms upon a hand gun , when was the last time we did ?

In 'kill or get killed' Col. Rex Applegate explains that disarming in actual practice is a very personal matter and one that must be understood by a person who has real confidence in himself and his skills ! No two situations will be exactly alike , differences in size and temperament of the individuals and their respective mind states cannot be reduced to reliable mind maps !

It is only when the gun or the gunman is within arm's reach of the victim that any disarm should even be thought of having a chance of success ! He can often be enticed within disarming range , but you won't recognize the man standing in your shoes at that moment, lapping a frozen fear adrenaline cone !

In his famous training of combat forces , Applegate's training and assiduous practice was very realistic and with real weapons fully functional , some with blanks under very controlled conditions !

How many of us train that way ! For that matter how many really know the gun they would take away from someone ! Most are afraid of guns or are antigun , yet they think they can disarm someone after a few lessons !

The knife : you will probably first realize you have been the victim of a knife attack when you see and taste your own blood ! But if you are lucky to see the knife before it slices you into skin flaps , according to the lethal force institute teachings , the real importance is time and distance between you and the assailant ! The rest of the response action , whatever you may be prepared to dish out , is secondary !
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:38 pm

Street tactics
Cecil
< Besides, we
could get into a bunch of street fights and still not be really proving
anything; how can you guarantee that the person you pick at
random is a worthy opponent?

Most people that I know who are
good street fighters are either going to avoid fighting you or will
shoot you or knock you over the head with a bat, stick, tire iron,
ashtray, brick, shoe, or lamp if they even SUSPECT that you have
martial arts training.

And most of these people I know that will do
that HAVE MARTIAL ARTS TRAINING THEMSELVES! <
[Cecil]
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:41 pm

Watch your mouth

We have seen lots of idiots dig their own grave on and off the forums, right?

One incident I will never forget is when working as an insurance investigator... one of our property claims people , dealing with a Mafia family of Italian roots on an insurance claim , said certain things and acted in a certain way perfectly in tune with his upbringing, but > that infuriated the ' foreigners' to the point the case was reassigned to me in order to intercede for my colleague and to smooth things out ! He had been reduced to a quivering blob by primal fear of the hinted repercussions.

As it turned out, I was able to resolve the situation with apologies and fair settlement.

The working of the emotional mind is state specific to feelings of the moment . How we think in romance , for example, is of course different than how we behave when in fear , dejection or rage !

The responses to various emotional situations are a reshuffling of memory and options for action so that those most understood and programmed in relevance are at the top of your mental 'hard disk ' quickly enacted by reflex impulse !
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:48 pm

David Elkins

Hello Sensei and all,

First, the big, strong, and tough element is never to be taken lightly (IMHO as folks say.) Big is largely genetic and we can't do to much there, but strong and tough are birds of a different feather and again IMHO should be trained/challenged regularly.

My experience is that many people give lip service to both but empirically it's hard to find where the training occurs. Maybe it's mental imagery/rehearsal (from the root word, hearse) but you don't see a lot in weight gyms or commercial dojo.

Please, before everyone's blood pressure starts going up, I think Uechi and other "real" (see Dragon Times, Vol. 10) karate styles are notable exceptions.

In most gyms the use patterns favor dumbbell waving and the use of machines to isolate individual muscles for that buff look we all so admire (I don't know how to make a smiley face on the computer so please just imagine one here.)

Seldom does one have to wait on a squat rack and if so it's for a trainee who is wrapped to the gills and performing 1/4 squats. Movements that foster real strength in bone, tendon, muscle, and mind like full squats in any repetition sequence, stiff leg deadlifts, standing presses, cleans, good mornings etc are usually avoided like the plague.

If they are performed it is frequently with a training partner who recites the "all you" pledge as he/she does most of the work. Abdominal work which should be done with HEAVY weights is usually done with none for hundreds of time wasting reps.

Neck work, which again should be on the training schedule of every combat artist is hardly ever seen. In my experience, Judoka do train correctly with resistance apparatus.

They have been getting wonderful advice since Draeger and Ishikawa (1961.) Unlike the great majority of karateka and gung-fu players they are also used to hurt. Pain is something they've made peace with early on in their careers and they can instinctively differentiate hurt from pain and respond appropriately.


In the actual training of whatever art we embrace, how many of us truly push the envelope on a regular basis. Again no fingers pointed - just a general commentary on the level of intensity in many dojo/kwoon.

Is militaristic barking of orders and demanding punitive response for real or imagined infraction intensity? I don't think so but some would disagree.

Having said the above, Judo, wrestling, and football are sports with rules of engagement much the same as the UFC. How many of us would not gladly trade a dislocated joint for an eye gouge or a crushing/tearing of the trachea?

These differences make comparisons apples and oranges.
How can we train for these scenarios? Again IMHO minimize dojo focus on point sparring. Encourage a continuum of movement from entering to trapping/striking to grappling to finishing (hope I didn't infringe on any trademarks there.)

Wear bogu. Hit hard/kick hard. If the action goes over, under, around, or through environmental obstacles, allow it. Go slow when necessary so as to avoid real tissue damage to our valued training partners. Allow, no - demand, use of technique from the wonderful kata we possess.

Encourage creativity in elaboration of bunkai from all levels of student seniority.

Specific drills for grappling "shootists" : My karate brother Carl, who has forgotten more than I will ever know, suggested training what the footballers call "post and tackle." This is simply retraction of the lower extremity on the side of the advancing energy and posing Sanchin with the opposite arm.

After he showed it to me I immediately flashed on the ashi sabaki we use in Tenshin Hojo Undo exercises. That's it!!! If you can't knee, elbow, iron palm strike the incoming force, nullify it with Tenshin stepping and grab/knee, kick, or punch.

If it's possible to execute this strategy in my mind it's preferable to kick out your legs and collapse on the opponent as now I'm playing his ground game.

An apparatus to train this as well as work iron body for the midsection can be fabricated out of a log which has been suspended from the ceiling by chains, obi, or rope, and swung into a trainee who works the evasion and appropriate response.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 2:50 pm

WHEN VIOLENCE COMES

I have been a psychotherapist in one form or another for many years and I have seen many people suffering serious emotional illness (Major Depression and P.T.S.D. primarily) as a consequence of, among other things, their expectations of themselves being dashed by one cruel turn of fate or another.

It is particularly tragic when young people who have Black Belts are beaten up and/or raped. Invariably, they had not been exposed to the mindset we seek to cultivate and feel there is something terribly wrong with them as people and martial artists that they allowed this insult to be perpetrated upon them..."I should have done my triple spinning upside down crecsent unstoppable dragon whips his tail technique!"

I feel very strongly that it is criminal for us to allow students to leave the dojo with this type of perspective. This discussion seemed an ideal place to voice such a concern.

Thank you.
David
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 9:46 pm

paulg » 30 May 2020 06:05

I really like the trend in this discussion to have us pay more attention to our own contribution to the conflict that led to a fight. While it is true that there are some situations in which a truly innocent victim is assaulted 'out of the blue', this is much less common than the martial arts "tall tales of personal skill and valor" would have us believe. It takes two to tango, after all.


I would have to agree because we have seen many situations where the 'but for' rule prevailed.

'But for' the karate classes one took...he would not have acted like a half ass superman and looked for a fight so he could prove his manhood.

In many ways the student standing before a teacher has taken his first step towards trouble, and when he gets 275 sutures from a stabbing in the street, he will first try to crucify the teacher for having taught him s#hit.

I gave one the many examples a while back...about a teacher having told a young student 'anyone who violates your sanchin is dead'...

So the kids gets into a fight with multiple opponents and warns them about his superkarate.

He ends so badly beaten that he was in the hospital for a week. When i took over that sensei's dojo, I called the student, got his father on the phone, who said he was going to sue the whole Mattson Academy Organization for almost killing his son.

Some teachers are worse than students with the karate BS mystique.

And that teacher would shop with a gi on and try to kick cans off Shelves to prove the killer karate moves.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 10:38 pm

Darren Laur
Profile of Violent Victimization Incidents:


• Victims are most often victimized in commercial establishments or public institutions

• Excluding spousal violence, violent crimes were most likely to occur in a commercial place or public institution (38%). In particular, 14% of all violent incidents took place in an office, factory, store, shopping mall, 12% in a bar or restaurant, 7% in schools, and 5% in hospitals.

• In addition to being the most common location for violent victimization, commercial establishments were often the victim’s place of work (43%)

• Public places such as sidewalks, street and highways accounted for 9%, parking garages or parking lots 3%, rural areas or parks 3%, public transportation 2%

• 19% of violent crimes took place either in or outside the victims home

• Robbery most often took place on the street, 43%

• Both physical (39%) and sexual assaults (49%) were most likely to occur in commercial establishments.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 30, 2020 10:51 pm

Sometimes stuff really works...


Fred Chanel<<

Van,
I trained with an old friend of yours today who told me way back when you would fight from the ground circled by your students and whoever was foolish to approach would find themselves kicked and flying across the room.

Hint: He began training in 1964. Is a former police officer. His daughter used to beat the stuffing out of any boy foolish enough to spar her in my first dojo.
I said it sure sounded like you!

F.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 31, 2020 4:50 am

This of interest


The “sweet spots” refer to the most vulnerable spots on your attacker: knees, throat, nose, and eyes.

Pivoting on your back foot, raise your front foot high enough to stomp on his knee; land any form of your hand at his throat -- fist, palm, anything; dig your thumbs into his eyeballs.

With the understanding that you’re defending yourself, all rules go out the window, but your use of force here should equal to the threat.

Regardless, gunning for the testicles is considered a secondary choice, chiefly because most men have learned to block that area with lightening reflexes.

A man is more likely to block a strike here than elsewhere.

Having just launched your incapacitating strike, hit the road. This doesn’t mean scampering away in a hurry -- it means leaving the scene in a cool manner.

After all, now that you’ve pissed him off this is when potential assault charges go up a notch or two for both of you if you stick around.

Do what you need to do in your own defense and go about your business. Don’t let your adrenaline or your sense of satisfaction encourage you to heap it on.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 31, 2020 4:52 am

KICKING ASS


By leaving the scene, you have legally answered an immediate and unavoidable bell. When the threat is diminished, you only have the support of the law on your end if you walk away.

Otherwise, all bets are off. To paraphrase and bastardize Senator Barry Goldwater, moderation in self-defense is no virtue, but extremism in the same situation might be a crime.

This is where knowing how to throw a punch comes in: If you have never punched someone, you haven’t experienced the horror of finding out that punches neither throw nor land like they do in Hollywood.

It’s important to convey this in the following four steps on how to throw a punch so that you can apply the basic mechanics of punch-throwing to your next round.

Those of us who've been the subject of a punch or two over the years can tell you that some guys know how to throw a punch, and others don’t.

Differentiating between the two isn’t difficult; the latter’s blows feel no worse than an errant limb catching your cheek in a wrestling match, while the former’s punches land hard and feel like they’re ringing a bell in your head.

To obtain the desired "bell-ringing" results, here is how to throw a punch in four simple steps.

Here’s what can happen when you throw a punch at the nose: First, the pain is extraordinary -- no other body part hurts quite the way the nose does.

Second, it bleeds uncontrollably. Swelling begins soon afterward, causing the eyes to swell also. In no time, it will become difficult and then impossible to breathe through the nose.

In short, the nose is the facial pathway to debilitating your aggressor without putting his life in immediate jeopardy (although blood loss is a potential danger).

A bonus: When hit, the nose features one special effect to make Hollywood envious -- an audible crunch.


 Never ever hit someone on the jaw with your fist! I agree it looks quite manly when done in the movies but in real life you will most certainly break your hand, especially in cold weather. (Remember, in boxing the gloves are for protecting your hands not the other guy).


Instead hit him on the nose with the palm heel of your hand, if possible from below. It will cause hell of a pain, make his eyes water and will disrupt his balance.



Spinning away might also not be the best of ideas. Just imagine what he might do to you if your punch missed and you suddenly have your back turned towards him.

Better shower him with punches while driving him backwards until he goes down.
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