Good talk on blocks

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:21 pm

Of course we can't train to see something and rush in on something we don't see

That is a much my point as anything it is the block mentality again

Just as you won't be able to jump back on an angle and pluck there punch out of the air if you don't see it.

It is a strawman argument to suggest my preferred technique won't work if I use your failed tactics and strategy of the block mindset.


To pretend its a flinch to do so , well ..... Maybe you'll get lucky , now at one point I suggested maybe the flinch and then your moves and gave you the maybe sometimes position .

And I was corrected that the flinch can sophisticate with enough training, which I agree.

But the real issue is not the block, but the proactive mindset and awareness and reading required to defend yourself.

And that never comes with the block mindset , where cover position and strategy aren't your primary defences , but standing toe to toe waiting to pluck a strike out of the air is what you should ingrain.

recognising the position and the cover as an entry gives you the skills to enter , when you flinch and recognise there is no problem going forward as an option or preferably around to the rear, but its still missing the overall picture tactically and physiologically if your just seeing this as preferred techniques .

it's potentially political now and I'm not back to the kumite bash , and you cant do this cant to that defences , note above I said you could possibly flinch back I'm not saying anythings not possible. I'm just talking better practice using modern research to reinforce the traditional lessons.

Im talking about a paradigm shift in awareness and orientation and covers , and the habits you need to remove/establish in order to make it usefull and ingrained.

IE detstroying the block mindset more so than the moves themselves which are effective used in other ways.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:12 pm

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10b2ZTYmmWA

Notice the blading and angling , Now why would anyone take this position ? , now it might of been only 1/3 of a second or so but watch it go back in the clip....

should we be watching to block or watching the ques ? and is it the same thing .

Is one defensive and one pro-active?

waht about the other 42.5 seconds in the clip of warning
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:57 pm

We still don't know what caused the fracas and why the guy on the phone got picked on...anyone know?

And the phone guy gets in the face of the crazy woman, he gets spat upon and is wiping it off his face when he gets hit.

Now let's say he saw it coming and decides to engage in some way this brute of a man...would he have avoided a beating or gotten a worse one?

This is all part of a tactical situation that any good teacher must ingrain in a student.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:24 am

With very few exceptions ...Never expect a 5'1, 95 lbs. small guy to prevail against a 6'5, 300 lbs. big guy with his bare fists.

Although possible if the smaller individual has superior speed and skill, it happens very rarely. The most realistic way to beat the bigger foe will most often depend upon the small guy's expertise in handling a weapon, and/or his willingness to retreat rather than just engage in attacking. A weapon is a great 'equalizer'.

One thing that we don't ever talk about is 'ducking' something that Jim Maloney teaches well...

And any discussion on blocking, covering etc. is not complete without addressing the 'parrying' concept that is so well contained in our wauke.

The parrying also develops very good timing.

It is more efficient to include a parry (a simple tap against a forceful blow is enough to divert the strike) in any deflections and pivots/redirections...than using one arm alone to block the attack.

Parrying combined with your other arm rising and sweeping the center line
gives you more opportunity to catch incoming punches you don't first identify and then counter-attack all in one movement.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:32 am

We still don't know what caused the fracas and why the guy on the phone got picked on...anyone know?


Ive seen a longer clip , from memory theres already been an argument , I think the women pushed in , when things escalate and dont go her way she goes to get her man... thats were this clip seems to pick up

But that's from memory and Im not sure exactly how it went down.

One thing that we don't ever talk about is 'ducking' something that Jim Maloney teaches well...

And any discussion on blocking, covering etc. is not complete without addressing the 'parrying' concept that is so well contained in our wauke.

The parrying also develops very good timing.

It is more efficient to include a parry (a simple tap against a forceful blow is enough to divert the strike) in any deflections and pivots/redirections...than using one arm alone to block the attack.


I teach a bob and pivot to the outside on getting caught in the middle or flinch/spear , I make sure this is ingrained fully before I deal with going up the middle which will surprise some.

I teach kotikitae as a hubud lubud drill which is all parry and timing before anything else , its attack the attack , and replaces the blocking mindset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_P9wdYmRE

different drills make different results possible with the same material
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:59 am

As much as a straight entry against curved strikes are very useful...I still warn about doing this against beastly opponents who not only might shrug off the best you can deliver, but will have you now in a vise grip, where you can encounter head butts, bites and suffocation.

When it is all said and done, it is helpful in learning to feel comfortable in all directions where you might want to step or where you might be pushed/jostled into, especially when up against multiple opponents which is more like what you will be up against in a street fight.

Stick and move, hit and run. Learn to move forward, move backward, sidestep, move in a circular path.

Footwork is a very essential factor combined with the ability to hit with perfect timing. As valuable as Sanchin grounding can be to deliver strong techniques...Never be in a flat-footed stationary fighting stance, a bigger opponent can easily own you if you let him catch you.

Look at the video clip again...look at the beating the phone guy is taking...stunned under raining blows...totally under the big guy's control.

You, as a smaller adversary against a bigger foe, should identify with a bullfighter's evasiveness and swiftness against the bull's powerful rage.

Side-stepping and finding unusual awkward angles is the best way in any engagement...aside from the sucker punch situations...if you must engage try to avoid being in front of your attacker for any extended time.

This gives you an opportunity to seek for an opening, kick low to his legs, and makes you less predictable. However, it takes a lot of training and practice to acquire this skill.

To fight toe to toe with a bigger foe is way too risky. Evasiveness is the one of the most important attributes. Run if you get an opportunity.

Once a big guy like in the clip has you cornered in a toe to toe fight you have got some serious problems as you will be quickly stunned, hurt and overcome by momentum.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:21 am

Stryke
Ive seen a longer clip , from memory theres already been an argument , I think the women pushed in , when things escalate and dont go her way she goes to get her man... thats were this clip seems to pick up

But that's from memory and Im not sure exactly how it went down.


That's when,as you also point out Marcus, the tactical solution would have been to just leave the joint…but in the heat of the moment I wonder how many of us would really do that…look at all those people standing around…those are no win situations but not many people can grasp that. Also I would not want to be eating pizza in a joint where spit had been flying around.
I teach a bob and pivot to the outside on getting caught in the middle or flinch/spear , I make sure this is ingrained fully before I deal with going up the middle which will surprise some.

I teach kotikitae as a hubud lubud drill which is all parry and timing before anything else , its attack the attack , and replaces the blocking mindset.


Good stuff, Marcus, I love that.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:25 am

This is how real fights go down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9at0B1CzfE

and where most likely your fight will be.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:27 am

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:35 am

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:17 am

That's when,as you also point out Marcus, the tactical solution would have been to just leave the joint…but in the heat of the moment I wonder how many of us would really do that…look at all those people standing around…those are no win situations but not many people can grasp that. Also I would not want to be eating pizza in a joint where spit had been flying around.


Agreed Van , Yup and very hard to leave , but not so hard to put the phone away watch , cower and let them be the heroes if need be and be ready for the punch , I still have a hard time thinking of this as an attack you couldn't see coming, cant block well sure , but couldn't predict ?, couldn't cover , is there any chance ?

It is back to how one thinks, and that's the most important bit of training
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:22 am

I agree 100%...the attack was well on its way but perception was lacking all around...but then again...I doubt any of those guys had any training in the stuff we talk about...their awareness down to zero.

And the phone thing...well...that is today's most prevalent disease that keeps on killing people...more addictive than heroin.

Look at the millions of dollars cell phone companies are making on the blabbermouths.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:02 am

You've got it my friend , But of course I learned most of this stuff here .

I think we have a duty to teach the mental aspect if we claim to teach self defence , and it has to be associated with the physical practice to join it and be congruent to it , why we do something not just how and when , build a picture and a process bigger than the physical.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:32 pm

Thanks Marcus...good points.

I have always seen street fights as unpredictable utter chaos that bewilders people who expected something totally different when it happened.

The practice of martial arts, with certain repetitive moves, creates a physical and mental operant conditioning that sometimes is useful and safe...and sometimes is not, because street fights and the complications that flow from them are impossible to foresee in their entirety...so we get stuck in them like a deer in headlights.

Let's look at the stunned expressions on people's faces here...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9at0B1CzfE
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Stryke » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:28 pm

Absolutely , I personally try to ingrain doing something , cycle the loop OODA

the biggest threat is doing nothing , it is hard to ingrain action , self responsibility , a proactive mindset reposition , leave , de-escalate etc

It does not begin with the attack , there are ques , there are positions , if you don't see it coming your no worse off than not seeing it coming right?

In drilling (observe) assess the surroundings , watch ques , manage the interview (orient),take the strategic postion set boundrys , (decide) asess threat level and force continuim (act) Carry out your plan decisively or actively cycle the loop repositioning and gathering more information to further act.


Now all of this is simple and possible to ingrain in dojo training , do scenarios , or even just start attack sequences by establishing a superior or inferior position rather than a neutral one , establishing the need to position as the biggest advantage and priority.

Now what has this to do with blocks? Well everything
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