Tag Lines Discussion

"OldFist" is the new and official Forum Arbitrator. "I plan to do a straight forward job of moderating, just upholding the mission statement of the forums, trying to make sure that everyone is courteous, and that no one is rudely intimidated by anyone else."

Moderators: gmattson, Oldfist

Postby Stryke » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:00 pm

I would appreciate it if you had the integrity to name or notify the five trouble makers so they can knowingly correct there actions .

It is possible they dont realise there behaviour is causing such trouble .

If you choose not to do so in public , may i suggest a PM .

They may be totally oblivious , and think there contributing to the forums , after all truth is relative .

A word to the wise , all will be remembered for your actions by the lurkers , all the wanting in the world does not make a situation so , the truth is not relative , respect peoples intelligence to see any hidden agenda .

If any part of my message breaches froum rules/ettiquite , please let me know and I`ll gladly modify it .

Postby Oldfist » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:47 pm

Have I observed inappropriate behavior according to the current set of rules, by some posters, sometime in the past?


That was then and this is now. As far as I'm concerned today everything is great and there are no current problems.

Anyone who is concerned about their behavior should read the current set of rules carefully and abide by them--then there will be no worries.:D

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Postby Randy Pelletier » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:10 pm

deleted by myself for deciding to take the high road.
Last edited by Randy Pelletier on Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Randy Pelletier

Postby Rick Wilson » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:29 pm

Reread everything and, as you suggested, still read it the same way as no explanation was received to the contrary.

"Laird recently received a warning because in my judgement (and that's my job to make this judgement) he went too far in the impolite and challenging way he addressed George. My warning was to let him know I wanted him to stop right there with that type of behavior. George is the site owner and, as such, he is a moderator of all the forums."

You are correct that on this forum you are the moderator and can give warnings as you see fit. This just means some may "wimp" out and choose to stay away from this forum. Sort of negates the conflict resolution purpose of these forums though doesn't it?

George is the host and can ask any of us to leave whenever he wishes.

"Note Well: I don't plan on defending myself against any arbitrary criticism or accusation that may randomly be made up by you, Rick, or anyone else. Please understand, I am not trying to win your approval or anyone else's on this forum. I am simply trying to do my best to moderate this forum and to do my job as forum arbitrator. "

You are correct that there is no need to seek anyone's approaval (guess that would go for everyone then?).

As for not responding to being questioned that is always kind of hard when you choose to post on an open forum don't you think?

And my comments were not arbitrary but specifc and referred directly to words posted by yourself. You will, of course, respond however you wish.

And admitting a problem is the first step to healing. :D (This is a joke folks!)
Rick Wilson

Postby Rick Wilson » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:47 am

There are many reasons people do not post:

1. They just like to read the forums and enjoy that role of learning. Does this mean we should ban them if they do not contribute? No, this is part of their learning. I believe that this is the main body of those who are registered for the forums.

2. They perceive they are not competent to post or reply to a post. Some may not feel they have the experience or the knowledge to post. When Bill makes a post with a great deal of medical facts from his professional education and experience how many feel comfortable entering into a medical discussion with him? (Not me.) This does not mean Bill should not make these posts it just means he is heads above most of us in medical knowledge. I feel this makes up the next largest group who have registered. They would like to contribute but do not feel competent enough, or they look and someone else has already expressed what they would have said.

3. Time. It takes time to formulate a post and time to create an intelligent reply to a post. The forums are often fast paced and some just don’t have the time to get into a discussion when they may access the forums once or twice a week or so. They still love reading the forums when they get a chance. I feel this is the third largest group. There are not many insomniacs like some of us who stay up late after working in the dojo to post. Most just do not have the time, but again enjoy reading when they can.

4. Writing skills. I know some who perceive their writing skill insufficient to post and would feel embarrassed if others pointed out errors. We have seen word misuse, spelling errors and grammatical errors pointed out to posters so they have seen it happen. Many shy away from public embarrassment. Not sure how big this section is but I know they exist.

5. Fear of being banned. I don’t think this is a large group but it is a new one. There are some who have expressed agreement with certain points being made on the forums but have stated to me that they have not posted this agreement because they are afraid they will be banned. Again I think this is a very small percentage.

6. Conflict avoidance. This is the one most commonly pointed out as keeping people away. Uechika sand Marital Artists tend to have strong feelings and these are expressed in their posts. Some find this confrontation not to their liking so they do not post. I just cannot see this as a large group but they do seem to be a vocal one.

So what do you do?

George has set up numerous forums on specific topics so that people who are not interested, or do not like certain topics, can simply stay away from those forums.

If you enter the mind body and spirit forum you should expect a certain type of post.

If you enter Van’s reality world you should not be shocked at the challenging of certain types of training or the stark realism with which violence is described.

If you enter my forum you will not find general topics that do not relate directly to martial arts.

Do not go on the sparring forum and start posting about how you believe sparring isn’t real etc because the entire forum is about sparring.

These things have been clear for some time.

Moderators have the right to request people to leave and not post on their forums. To me if this request is made and not respected then the poster should be banned.

Bill and I have had conflicts. (Now before anyone gets any impressions this is not a complaint about Bill.) Bill is a very nice guy. He is an intelligent man with a lot to contribute to these forums and he has done so faithfully for years now. But over the past while whenever Bill and I converse I perceive him taking shots at my students or me.

Please note this is stated as "my" perception. So for whatever reason, right or wrong, I keep seeing this (others don’t so there you go).

So should Bill be banned because I perceive these things?

Heck NO!

I have just chosen not to post on Bill’s forum and he has respectfully not posted on mine.

I still read Bill’s forum by the way because I like a lot of his posts, so I am lurker on his forum.

What I am trying to say is that there are many reasons why people choose not to post.

Sometimes there are just conflicts we have to recognize and let dissipate.

There are forums on specific topics that clearly beam out “If you don’t like this topic stay out.”

If someone does not like what is happening on Van’s reality forum then they should ask George if they can moderate a Reality forum of their own and moderate it as they see fit. (I wonder if it would be as successful as Van’s is?)

If someone treasures the drills that get questioned on some forums, then they should ask to start a forum specifically dealing with the benefits of those drills and ask those who do not agree not to stay out. And that request should be respected.

Step up and be counted or just sit back, lurk and enjoy reading. Just have fun.
Rick Wilson

Postby Stryke » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:50 am

Obey the golden rule , got it ......


Postby Mills75 » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:57 am

So sorry if I'm putting in two cents in something i'm not really involved in. However, as usual I read the comments made in all the posts on these pages and I come back to thinking Dana is some wise person who really gets to the heart of things in alot of cases. I really have to admit personally I believe she is so well balanced and her suggestions are so relevant in every case where she adds her wisdom.

When Dana makes the newspaper analogy it really hit home and I so wholeheartedly agree. I also think some will always enjoy and find benefits in the news but won't really care to become further involved. Then some will like the reading and then become inclined to get involved for whatever length of time.

I really think it's a very difficult thing to try and pin down why lurkers are lurkers and why posters are posters. I don't think anyone in the martial arts world is afraid or are wimps.I simply feel they are the type that doesn't feel a need to further explain and many respected posters who have shared posts in the past here have stated up front when they gave information that is was not for debate purposes or for anyone to show them something else in it or to change their minds about it.

I think we'd all agree that are teaching is most about a code of respect and honor that is cherished by every practicioner worldwide.We know there are similiarities and there are some differences in the way things are done in mostly small ways from dojo to dojo.

Anyhow the great respect and honor of a sensei who teaches you an art they've practiced for years and years is a precious thing. I think most will talk of the general things found in the art and most will enjoy knowing others who have the same love and respect for it. However no matter what is said or no matter who says it in my opinion I don't think many would even consider changing or entertaining the idea of debate on what they have learned. This seems to be proper protocol to me to respect and honor ones teaching.

I truly feel within that code of honor it is hard to talk of things many see no discussion in. I think the forums are wonderful for reading and being comrades and have many benefits but I feel alot just being honest end it there. And they read the paper and enjoy the news but don't want to go into a situation where they feel they have crossed the line and now have made or become the news.

Thank guys,
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Postby Stryke » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:28 am

good post Jeff , I totally agree :)

Thanks Stryke

Postby Mills75 » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:11 am

One last thing to add if I may..Where i come from in Pennsylvania we have a very proud tradition of winning seasons in football and having great teams. In fact we are one of a very few schools in the nation who are about to reach the incredible mark of 700 wins.

When our coaches talked to us in the locker room they told us about the ghosts and the guys who stood on the field before us and how we should feel them and respect them and do the very best we can to keep the tradition going and to make them proud. No kidding you would get chills and really feel crowds from the 30's cheering and moms and dads so happy and proud of their sons.

It was extremely motivational to think about and humbling also to know you're part of something much bigger than yourself or this particular moment in time and someday younger kids would sit and wear the uniforms and hear and feel the same pride and emotions you feel even today off the field.

I think it's this same strong feeling of pride and tradition found in martial arts that makes it so very hard for people to discuss because I knew other teams out there were good football teams and we respected them but you always come back and pat the guy on the back who scored for your team. It's that same brotherhood that made you play for the guy next to you on the field that I feel keeps alot of people from talking on forums.

They feel they are a part of a large community of good teams but they always go back to the bench and field they play on and love when the game whistle sounds at the end of the game. and if another coach in college said to run a run a route this way they would think man that's not what coach so and so said.

It's a bond of love and trust and brotherhood that keeps us together but at the same time seperates us. but that's what makes teams unique and special. During the game you try to knock the other guys block off with extreme prejudice and after the game you shake his hand and say good game man and kneel down and pray for each others season and good health.

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Postby Oldfist » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:54 pm

Randy, Rick, Marcus, Jeff, thanks very much for your considerate, thoughtful, and interesting posts !!:D

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Postby Mills75 » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:22 am

Thanks John for allowing us a place to voice our thoughts openly and honestly. Communication is a precious commodity so thanks.

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