Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

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Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

In my "Paradigm Shift" post below, I am not able to properly post replies. The last one seemed to get nested inside Chuck's post. Any ideas? More bugs? Isn't software just wonderful? Have a hard enough time writing it, never mind using it. Image

Chuck,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1. No image loaded (suspect the span tags)

2.Unrecognized attribute in tag: Attribute "BORDERCOLOR=orange"
2a. i belive it's correct syntax is bordercolor="orange" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The span tags are legal [around the pix] and have to be there. You are correct that the quotes go around the color. However I'm not using quotes [also legal] yet, and your software is using them as a delimiter, that's why the quotes surround the whole thing.

The Scrape did some weird things. For instance, the white block of text worked as it shoukd for awhile, and then blanked out as a dirty-white rectangle.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited March 31, 2001).]
Dakkon
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Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Dakkon »

Allen,
Yeah that was weird gotta love it though Image.
Granted very few (i see <5%) of web surfers using a 4.x browser on my site. Don't know what the AOL browser is but don't care too either Image
I use the webTV browser as a "Can the .05%'s" see the site at least enough to get a idea.
I'm afraid to use Netscape6 after it wiped out 6 machines that it was installed on. The new IE6 public beta is ok but still lacks interest.

Still the site looks great and is pretty robust to load too.

Chuck
Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

Thanks, bunches.

NS 6.1 or 6.01 seems to be much more stable than the cantankerous 6 was. It doesn't do sound.

CSS2 has even more features, but I am just getting my feet into being serious with learning it as a way to do webpages. So much more control yet so much more complicated with many, many properties.

Ah! On the other machine, I switched to the sound/color version from the "quiet" version, and it just blows up using NS6.

I'm going to work with a test file locally, but nothing I've read about CSS so far tells me I'm doing something incorrect.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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Scott Danziger
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Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Scott Danziger »

I couldn't fix the other Paradigm Shift so I locked it up. Sorry I lost a couple of posts in the process of trying to fix it. It appears as if Dakkon's post didn't close properly. I doubt it was anything anyone did. System could have had a hiccup at the moment he was submitting it.

Scott
Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

I wonder if Chuck is running Linux these days?

Glad you locked it. If there was something really screwy going on, one could even say that it could bring the site down; unlikely but possible. Thanks.

This particular type of forum seems to be the most popular ever everywhere. It was once free, and is surely trouble-free most of the time. I remember the one this replaced, the one with the indented header lines. You could almost always tell a day or so ahead of time when it was going to go down because it started acting a little funny.

NS6 is doing funny things here too. I also installed it on this machine because I don't have the two machines talking to each other yet.

I just downloaded a CSS manual from a website using IE. The NS "smart downloader" took over, and started flashed weird colors on the page I was downloading from. To me, that kind of software interaction is unstable and rather hokey.



[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited March 31, 2001).]
Dakkon
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Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Dakkon »

Allen,
LOL if you only knew the blues Linux has givin me this past week HAAA HAA HAA manic laughter Image
Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

Laughter must be similar to, but darker deeper, and connoting a different meaning to the one I put on


http://www.xpres.net/~gmattson/ubbs/Forum6/HTML/000620.html


Requires IE to hear it. Just play it over and over, and in your mood it will make you feel better (hehehahaha)


Revamped those simple, simple pages. time to put it to bed now that I am convinced the problem is inside NS6.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera<font color=lightgrey>

[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited March 31, 2001).]
Dakkon
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Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Dakkon »

Allen,
Uh I'm on the Mandrake linux system now.
Wow this is so different and kind blahhhhh Image
Your site looks good on the Netscape that came built in, only the image is MIA everything else was there. I'm going to get Opera next and see how that does the net.

Chuck
Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

Thanks Chuck.

Are you into writing shell scripts? and do you write into the system using UNIX tools? Is your Linux flavor GUI or is it a command line driven Linux?



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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Dakkon
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Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Dakkon »

Allen,
It's both command line and GUI, I'm using the KDE desktop now. I'm not into writing scripts really but I've all the tools to do it.
vi, emacs, xemacs etc.
So far I'm impressed with Mandrake. Built in ICQ clone works great IRC clients out the butt and some nice graphices editors.
Hmmm i'm almost willing to become semi-pro Linux now.
Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

Just learn some 'c' that came with the os and you'll really become a UNIX profesional. You can get a lot of mileage out of a K+R book to be found at your local bookstore.

Shell scripting is like writing DOS batch files and vi is a real animal all unto itself. Real UNIX c programmers do vi!


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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Dakkon
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Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Dakkon »

If shell scripting is similar to DOS then i'm there.
So far I've crashed KDE 3 times doing things to the config w/their tool Image almost as stable as Windoze 95a haa haa haa

Chuck
Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

Hey, Hey! Happy April fool's Day.

Yes, it is like DOS batch files but a little different. The difference lies mainly in the syntax although there is a strong parallelism, but UNIX is so much more powerful and leaves DOS in the DOSt, er dust. There are different shell scripts, depending on what version of UNIX you have at your fingertips.

Remember that DOS and UNIX have amazingly similar file structures. If you know file structures in DOS you are almost there. I assume you know all the variants of the UNIX: ls, piping, redirection, GREP, SED,LEX,LINT,and those things. Much of the sys stuff in the K+R c book I mentioned above applies BOTH to DOS and UNIX. Convenient?

Do a 'cp' and not 'copy'; do a 'mv' and not 'move'; If I'm preaching to the choir, let me know and I'll stop. I once did UNIX, but am not terribly well-versed in it anymore these days, but I suspect getting a better handle of the shell script of your flavor may inhibit the crashes because UNIX is virtually crash-proof when set up right. But when you get a core-dump, you get a core dump which is aking to the blue screen of death except more verbose with every state of every variable you can imagine burping up befire you. UNIX is definitely not a boy's toy. It will take some sys talent to keep your's running smoothly; one of the reasons MS is still in the lead.

UNIX would have made it because it touted itself as THE universal operating system years back in the DOS days. Problem was, it wasn't. The many flavors of UNIX are what Gates built his operating system success on.


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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited April 01, 2001).]
Dakkon
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Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Dakkon »

Allen,
yep the commands are pretty similar file structure is too, it's not been to bad trying to figure it out.
Yeah Unix would have made it but as you said to many "Flavors" still that way today.
I think there is at least 7 different GUIs for linux. More then there is Windozes OS Image
That is another reason linux will struggle to become a "Standard" OS. But that is what makes Linux so wonderfulllllll Image

Chuck
Allen M.

Did the Paradigm Shift Break?

Post by Allen M. »

What makes Linux so wonderful? That it is yet different from all the others?

Just about all the UNIX GUIs are X-Windows or Motif , and that is not the problem with the standardization. I have ported code from UNIX to NT on two separate occasions, and both times it was a nightmare. The nightmare wasn’t going from UNIX to NT, rather it was all the different flavors of UNIX that had to be accommodated. Seems that under the hood, each has their own version of the kernel and what it should look like and software written for different UNIXes would be “#ifdef” up the yang to make up for these differences often resulting in code which would exhibit different behavior depending. Couple that with the fact that no two ‘c’ compilers are created equal. Additionally what aggravates the whole mess is that some of the worst c code I have ever seen in my entire life was written for UNIX. Those people have really built in their own job security. I swear, management hires bunched of college students who don’t know the first thing about pointers and/or the English language, sets them down in a cubicle, and say “Here make this work in this amount of time.”

Duh!

I’m not complaining by a long shot, because that is part of what makes me a “C++ Firefighter.” This is the type of thing that feeds lowly me with work. For it is lowly me and similar types who have learned to endure the sheer tortures of never-ending software frustration to make a few pennies to pay the rent.

Then along comes someone who wants to get this load of spaghetti-like ill-performing code to work on NT. Good luck. It often takes far less time to do the whole thing from scratch then it is to turn Lead into Gold. And when you argue with management and tell them the code is no good it needs to be rewritten, they don’t understand that and they let you go. Only six months later the entire project fails and the company looses millions because they didn’t listen to sound advice.

So the problem is not with UNIX, rather it is the multiple versions with code written by multiple versions of programmers, often not knowing what they are doing, helping to create a quagmire out of the whole thing. UNIX people used to say “Those who don’t know UNIX can’t c.” To that I add “And many who think they do can’t”

And along comes Bill Gates. I don’t care who hates him. He is a marvelous man who built the slickest empire ever by beheading all sorts of dark and dirty UNIX dragons. And through it all has emerges the sweetest suite of software tools and operating systems that man has ever known.

As the empire was expanding along comes c++ at the right time. For when all this UNIX code finally works using the Visual C++ compiler it is then real code like gleaming marble of the walls of a newly build fortress. Yes siree, yes indeedee, that’s how Billy did it. He slayed the wounded dragon then ate its meat and drank it’s blood. He feasted upon the ineptitude of the multitude.

So that is my vision of UNIX internals and of what made MS come to pass.

Your first challenge, Chuck, should you accept this Linux invitation is to learn everything about GREP and learn it until you are chanting endless streams of unpronounceable GREP command diction in your sleep. Only then will you know the true joys of UNIX.

Have fun on this first day of DST.


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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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