Townhall Debate..

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IJ
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Post by IJ »

Bill, I wonder if you've had much the same problem I have, which is having no one to vote for I'm excited about and voting mostly against than for. The third party candidates all have their own problems too. Sometimes I wish there were a way to vote for parts of candidates. The country has gotten more complex than it was in the 1700s and perhaps we'd be better off voting for presidential trio that split domestic, foreign affairs, and financial issues. It'll never happen and third party viability is a dot on the horizon, and I wonder what it'll take to motivate changing that latter problem. Does anyone have a suitable candidate and 200 million? Uechi party for 2008? We could sure use some savvy, educated, nonpolitician who could use a good jointlock during the debates.
--Ian
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Indeed I do, Ian. My strongest feeling in this election is one against Edwards. Beyond that, my opinions of the candidates are mixed.

Indeed the problem is that political views fall along at least two dimensions, and the two party system tends only to cast voters on one. And in order to get elected, most try to pander to their base and woo the uncommitted with promises and favors.

What we need in this country is more capable visionaries who aren't afraid to operate on principle, but are willing to listen and compromise in order to get things done. And we the public need to figure out how to filter out all the mindless prattle coming from the biased networks and spin doctors. Uugghh!

I know I wouldn't make a good politician. I'm never afraid to say what I really think. :lol:

- Bill
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Mills75
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Thanks Bill

Post by Mills75 »

Thanks for the kind words and you're much respected in my book as the others are here and you and Ian are right regardless of the issues we're all a big family In the U.S. so hey I do like the idea of having more than one President we need a good republicrat in office to be honest..Oh well hope for the best I guess

Jeff
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Mills75
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Thanks Bill

Post by Mills75 »

Thanks for the kind words and you're much respected in my book as the others are here and you and Ian are right regardless of the issues we're all a big family In the U.S. so hey I do like the idea of having more than one President we need a good republicrat in office to be honest..Oh well hope for the best I guess

Jeff
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

On October 12, Gene said: "Theresa Heinz Kerry has never released her tax returns."

According to the WSJ the Kerry campaign released it last Friday. The bottom line is that on her 2003 form 1040 "Teresa Heinz" paid fed income tax of $627,150 on income of $5.07 million. That comes out to 12.4%, lower than the average of 14.2% for all taxpayers.

I wish I had had a staff of tax lawyers to help me figure out how to do that.

Rich
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Gene DeMambro
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Post by Gene DeMambro »

And good for her, and it's all 100% legal...and legitimate. So what's the problem?

Gene
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

Gene said: "So what's the problem?"

Kerry is the very person complaining about tax breaks for the rich, that is the problem.

Is it ok for the elites to not pay their fair share?

Rich
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Damn... And think about the fact that Chad paid at one of the higher tax brackets when he was 5 years old. He made a few thousand dollars acting in a Paramount King's Dominion TV commercial, and he paid at a tax rate double Theresa's. (The law says he had to pay at the top end of MY rate... :evil: )

But it's all 100% legal...and legitimate. I guess it's the "wealthy" kids that are supposed to pay "their fair share," Rich. ;)

- Bill
ljr
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Post by ljr »

RACastanet wrote:Gene said: "So what's the problem?"

Kerry is the very person complaining about tax breaks for the rich, that is the problem.

Is it ok for the elites to not pay their fair share?

Rich
I have no problem with the amount of tax breaks that Teresa gets. I use every break I have coming to me and so should everyone else. Tax breaks are always a tough discussion, because the only go to the people paying taxes.

originally I believe Bill posted the 12% rate, and Gene stated "I wonder where the 12% rate the WSJ came up with? Clearly it probably is wrong. "

Looks like the WSJ had it right.

We often talk about statistics, and the fact that Teresa "only" gave $2000 to the campaign, but I wonder if there are any loans against property owned by Teresa, or some other way the Senator Kerry has leveraged her wealth into the campaign.

I do not believe any candidate has to supply their tax returns, didn't Romney try not to submit his when he challenged Kerry for his senate seat a few years back? Cannot remember if he actually ended up submitting them.

Cheers,
ljr
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Post by Panther »

ljr wrote:originally I believe Bill posted the 12% rate, and Gene stated "I wonder where the 12% rate the WSJ came up with? Clearly it probably is wrong. "

Looks like the WSJ had it right.
Taking the breaks isn't really the problem... The problem is that Kerry is campaigning against the supposed tax breaks for the rich while having the advantage of being able to hire the tax attorneys which middle class folks like us can't afford to do. And to hire the best trust attorneys, while the rest of us slobs couldn't afford one of these big-time trusts even if we could hire the attorney! Even though there isn't a specific "choice" on the Federal 1040 returns, there IS a specific choice on the Massachusetts STATE return that allows anyone who so chooses to pay at a higher rate. Now... one would think that those folks who are wealthy AND who espouse a desire for higher taxes AND claim that higher taxes are necessary so the all-powerful government can redistribute the money to where they deem it is most needed... well... you'd think those folks would voluntarily pay the higher rate... riiiight? It hasn't been mentioned so far, but you can bet that Kerry, Heinz, Edwards, or Kennedy have not paid anything extra. In fact, it appears their ability to hire the best tax and trust attorneys has significantly reduced their tax burden below the national average.

Now don't get me wrong... I don't think anyone should have to pay the huge taxes being demanded from us at the point of the government's guns... and I sincerely hope and work for the day that I make folks like the Heinz look poor with my wealth... but it is nothing more than hypocritical to claim that taxes should be raised for folks while paying less than the average percentage paid by those who are worse off than yourself. Which brings me to my next tid-bit...

Taxes are simple math. The government could not run on the taxes generated by the wealthiest 1-3% of the population, even if they doubled that rate. There just isn't enough money in that pool to do it. And it should be obvious that government can't run on the taxes generated by the lowest earning folks either... again, there just isn't enough money in the pool. So, it's simple. The government MUST get the bulk of it's money from those who are above poverty-level and below ~$200k/yr. (BTW, if you make $200k/yr, your right up there in the top few percent of the wealthiest.) That's the vast majority of the population... the "middle-class" if you will... If the government wants to steal more money, that's the best place to get it. That's why whenever someone says they want to pay for some government program with a "tax increase on the rich" it ALWAYS ends up that anyone who makes more than about $35-40k/yr is suddenly considered "rich". Simple math... that's where the bulk of the money is. It might not be in the hands of a few folks, in fact, it's spread out of the majority of the population, but put together, that's where the money is.
I do not believe any candidate has to supply their tax returns, didn't Romney try not to submit his when he challenged Kerry for his senate seat a few years back? Cannot remember if he actually ended up submitting them.
Yes, Romney tried not to give out his tax returns. In the end, he did... at least he gave as much of his as Kerry did. Basically what BOTH of their returns showed was that neither of them paid a high percentage in taxes and neither of them gave very much to charity. As far as tax returns, Romney was closer to Kerry than folks wanted to think... So he has an "R" beside his name... In Massachusetts, there is only one political party. Part of them call themselves "Republicans" and the majority of them call themselves "Democrats"... but it's all the same here. :(
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