Moooo - Here comes our beef and the protesters!!!

This is Dave Young's Forum.
Can you really bridge the gap between reality and training? Between traditional karate and real world encounters? Absolutely, we will address in this forum why this transition is necessary and critical for survival, and provide suggestions on how to do this correctly. So come in and feel welcomed, but leave your egos at the door!
Guest

worlds longest rant

Post by Guest »

Nice t shirt!

I'd be willing to offer free suitcase packing for the separatists.


CXT . Please don’t distort my words or paraphrase them in a manner that changes their meaning. Lets live the spin doctoring to our governments :wink:
Ok, the Canuks were there AS PART OF SMALL UN PEACEKEEPING FORCE.

Don't make it sound like you guys took independent action.

You didn't.

Nor did you as a nation decide to "do the right thing" and act independently.

You didn't--if you had, you would have the moral high ground to lecture the rest of the world.
1. I have not taken the moral high ground

2. I am not lecturing the rest of the world

3. You claimed Canada did nothing, you were wrong.

4. Yes we did not take independent action,we worked with in the system and international law we went in with a UN Mandate.

5. When it became obvious that the mission would fail we went back to the Security Council and asked for more troops and for a change in directive as it was a non firing mission. We received no help from the Security Council.

The whole point of raising the Rwanda issue was to point out that the USA did not back Canada when we asked for help.



Nice list--so your NOW wanting to go the whole "prior bad acts" route??

Cool--before I run my own list of the various sins, crimes, mistakes, and grevious errors committed BY PRETTY MUCH EVERY NATION IN THE WORLD.
See my point to Bill, I’m lazy the point of the list was to point out your nation has a habit of invading other nations. Gun barrel commerce if you will.


Nor is there even the attempt to list OTHERS that have behaved in a like manner (care to discuss the plight of the Metis sometime-or perhaps the various seperatist movements
I suggest we stick to the thread instead of hijacking the post and solving the wrongs of the world.
Telling, in that you single out the USA---see, its not the ACTS that bother you (otherwise you would be hammering everyone)
The rest of the world is not schiting on Canada for not going to the war with the US, the rest of the world hasn’t slapped a trade war on us. America has.


All "also rans" want to talk about "percentage of GNP"

What you really mean by that is-

"We don't give nearly the amount you do--BUT we need something to make us feel better and insult you about"

Notice that you couldn't even give us our propers even here?
I think aid given freely is a great gift. I think we all should help the less fortunate. With no strings attached. I’m surprised you would degrade the efforts of other peoples to help their fellow man. For the last time the purpose of the post is not to insult anyone. Read my post over again. It may be this arrogant we are the best and you guys all ****** attitude that loses America international support.


And your right in WW2 etc you were "with us" but "with us" and whom does the real "heavy lifting" are two very different things.
Many Yanks like to think they single handedly won the war. I guess those hundreds of thousands of other folks in uniform who died to defeat Hitler were a figment of my imagination. Do you not think your claim might be a little insulting to nations who also suffered heavy losses and were in the war for six years? Do you think the French and British whose children were being killed did any of that lifting?

My little country had over a million people in uniform, that’s ten percent of the population. Kind of comparable to the USA having 35 million soldiers today. I lost family in the liberation of Holland, I’ve visited the Canadian gravesites all over Europe, I lived there for a few years. Don’t tell me you did all the heavy lifting. It’s an insult to every soldier who served, and every family that sacrificed. No doubt America’s late entry into the war shortened it, her sacrifice is appreciated by all nations, but don’t schit on the memory of those who made the ultimate sacrifice. I personally think Hiltlers Russian blunder was the turning point and not the efforts of any one army.
And without us--no-one would have stopped the genocide in Kosavo and Bosina.

You didn't act until WE DID.
Funny I thought that was a NATO force, I didn’t realize that it was an independent American effort with the rest of NATO tagging along. But the point that you had the majority of military forces and weaponry is true. Without it Many more people would have been killed.

You seem to constantly insult non US military forces, cast them as insignificant weak, not carrying the weight. So if they are so useless, why do you want them at your side when you go to war?

If our military is crap why are you punishing us via trade for not sending it to Iraq? And once again, How can you expect us to back you when you didn’t back us? Can we get around to dealing with the thread or are we going to continually be side tracked on other issues?
Ugly truth--without us both World Wars and Korea would have been major losses for the world.
On the world wars, I disagree, but that your nation made a major contributuion to victory there is no doubt. Thank God you where in their dying with the rest of us.

Korea….the police action…yeah it was a war, and like most of them it was America and a few small forces from other nations.


Sloppy thinking dude--"Canadian embassis are not being blown up all over the world... why are Americas?"
You miss the point, the point is why are Americans the prominent target in this type of terrorist attack. Why do other people want to kill your citizens?


No real military spending allowed to develop your "nanny state" and let us protect and the rest of the world.
1. What is a Nanny state?

2. Who do we need protection from? Only country ever to invade us was America. Are you guys thinking of visiting? As an ex military. I’d like to see us with more capabilities in this area, but we still manage to assist the UN in peacekeeping and we have sufficient forces to deal with national emergencies and insurrection. That meets our needs we don’t practice gun barrel commerce, so we have no need of large invasion forces. But nothing wrong with war to drive an economy, good way to end a drepression I hear.


Because we don’t spend billions and billions on military spending we are able to offer universal health care to our people. We would rather spend our tax dollars looking after the health of our people.

You appear to put great value on independent action, of coming up with the idea of going to war and then invading.

Most countries don’t see this as a reason to celebrate. To commite a hostile act to attack is not a good thing in the eyes of the world. The US shuns the UN, and the US also shuns the WTO. Eleven times the WTO has ruled that US tariffs on Canadian lumber are illegal. But America seems to say the hell with the world and everyone else these days. Why is that?




We have different values it would seem.
User avatar
Panther
Posts: 2807
Joined: Wed May 17, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Massachusetts

Post by Panther »

Just watching... :wink:
User avatar
Mary S
Posts: 1472
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Halifax, NS Canada
Contact:

Post by Mary S »

Very interesting how this thread evolved!! :) I recall mentioning something about a bandaid at the beginning of the thread somewhere.... :)

Perhaps instead of picking each other apart we could look at the things we have in common? :) Just a suggestion....

As Panther says....be good to each other :D
Guest

Post by Guest »

Sorry if I'm offending anyone here, Mary I thought I was being nice, just having a debate, just suggesting folks look at themselves in the other guys mirror for while.

CXT and I both have sharp tounges and lead with the chin, But I don't think either of us are offended or angry. I'm not, just trying to get a point across.

The trade backlash is near and dear to my heart, we in Alberta can't sell our beef, and our lumber is taxed to the point we can't sell it in the US either. People are lossing everything over this punative reaction. The only other product we sell to the US is oil and gas. Maybe we should find new markets for all our products. And let our century old friends sit in the cold and dark and ponder why we took out ball and went else where.

George Bush, who I suport and think he was the best man for the job and the best leader one could wish for after 9 11 needs to do work on partnership building.

Canada and the US have had a very close relationship since 1867. Cross border ties run deep. It's hard to find a Canadian who does not have an American relative. I think old grey haired Canadians are the back bone of the economy in Florida :wink:

It's unfortunate things are beginning to sour...I don't understand why the US no longer sees the folks in the North as friends and trading partners. But I guess if things continue to sour we can make new friends to trade with lots of countries need energy.
User avatar
Mary S
Posts: 1472
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Halifax, NS Canada
Contact:

Post by Mary S »

I don't understand why the US no longer sees the folks in the North as friends and trading partners.
Could it be because Canadians are finally finding their voice and speaking their mind? I hope you know what I mean by this...we are usually the quiet neighbour but it seems lately that we are starting to grow a set and are becoming a little more vocal about what we will stand for as a nation and how our culture differs from the US.

God, I miss Pierre Burton... :(

You're not offending me....I find all these viewpoints very interesting.
User avatar
CANDANeh
Posts: 1448
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Jeddore
Contact:

Post by CANDANeh »

God, I miss Pierre Burton...
Yes indeed, greatest Canadian to pass away in my lifetime.
Sad thing is (or is it?), if he had accepted the offers to go to the U.S.A. he would have reached greater "fame and fortune" ...but he remained amoung us 8)
Léo
User avatar
Bill Glasheen
Posts: 17299
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

A few quick comments...

First, this is the best behaved I've seen Laird in such a confrontation. I see a lot of respect being displayed. Hats off to him. As he said, the two of them have a style. No furniture has been broken - yet... :lol:

Second, there was this mad cow disease thing. It's a real pain in the ass when you get even one animal in your country. Suddenly everyone in Europe finds a reason to engage in trade protectionism. I believe Alberta was the source of the latest outbreak. And the only cow we had in our country with the disease came from Alberta. We quickly learned the problems involved in tracing origins of these animals. Better record keeping is needed.

Hopefully that'll all get sorted out soon. I'm not a beef eater, but I appreciate the industry.

- Bill
User avatar
Mary S
Posts: 1472
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Halifax, NS Canada
Contact:

Post by Mary S »

The one (1) cow was born in Alberta but...it's poppa was American (and that's no bull) :)

*****

U.S. mad cow from Alberta
January 6, 2004
By DENNIS BUECKERT


OTTAWA (CP) - Canada remains optimistic U.S. borders will be reopened to Canadian beef despite confirmation Tuesday that an American cow infected with mad cow disease was born in Alberta, says Agriculture Minister Bob Speller.

Speller said he will meet with his U.S. counterpart Jan. 16 in Washington to discuss the situation. He will also lead a trade mission to Japan, South Korea and Mexico to urge those countries to allow imports of Canadian beef. Prime Minister Paul Martin said he will press for the reopening of the American market to Canadian beef when he meets next week with U.S. President George Bush at a summit in Mexico.

"The problems that have to be dealt with are the same on both sides of the border," Martin said Tuesday during a visit to Nova Scotia.

"Canada has acted very quickly, has taken very significant action, has, in fact, paved the way and that has to be recognized."

Confirmation of the cow's origin was met with frustration in Western Canada, but industry officials said the country's status as being at minimal risk of mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), should not be affected.


Speller agreed.

"The latest finding of an infected cow with BSE does not change our assessment of the situation in North America with respect to the safety of the food supply."

But the government is nevertheless introducing increased surveillance and tracking to further reduce the risk of mad cow.

Speller spoke moments after it was revealed that DNA tests in Canada and the U.S. confirmed that a Washington state Holstein that tested positive for mad cow was born on an Alberta ranch.

Speller said he obtained cabinet funding Tuesday for a package of anti-BSE measures which are already under way. He did not give a dollar amount.

Brian Evans, chief veterinarian of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, said the goal is to be able to detect a one-in-a-million case of mad cow.

That will involve upgrading laboratories and training personnel to administer quick tests. This year Canada tested approximately 5,500 cattle for BSE and the number is expected to rise, Evans said.

He said the DNA tests are just one part of a sweeping investigation that will include tracing the feed that likely infected the cow.

Evans said the new case of BSE will have a psychological impact: "It certainly does provide some disappointment to the industry."

The origin of the feed, which could have come from several sources, is still not known.

Canada's cattle industry was already reeling after the infection of a lone beef cow in May. Losses have been estimated at more than $1.9 billion Cdn.

The results of the tests, announced Tuesday, have been highly anticipated since U.S. officials revealed the country's first mad cow case Dec. 23.

Days later, officials tentatively pegged the cow's birthplace and birthdate of April 1997, four months before safety restrictions on cattle feed were adopted.

Ron DeHaven, chief veterinarian for the U.S. Agriculture Department, also maintained the beef supply is safe "whether this cow originated in Canada or not."

Many in the industry say the cow's origin really doesn't matter because the Canadian and U.S. cattle and feed sectors are so integrated after decades of heavy trade. For example, the bull that sired the infected cow was American.
Alberta Agriculture Minister Shirley McClellan shared those views. McClellan said the industry should not face major repercussions from the second case of BSE.

"The North American cattle market is an integrated one," she said in a release.

"This doesn't change what we know. Canada's food supply is the safest in the world because of our advanced tracking and surveillance system."

Saskatchewan Party agriculture critic Lyle Stewart said the confirmation of the cow's origins is nevertheless a blow.

"I really feel that that's overplayed, that it came from Canada," said Stewart, who raises about 100 head of cattle near Pense, Sask., just west of Regina.

"Our industry is so integrated that that shouldn't matter but now we've had two cases that originated in this country and it's of grave concern to the industry."

Larry Schweitzer, vice-president of the Manitoba Cattle Producers Association, said Canada will retain its status as a minimum-risk country for BSE."

"Anything under 30 months of age is basically no risk at all and anything in muscle cuts is no risk at all either.

"If you look at the science . . .it should be no different than what it was before as far as getting fat cattle or under 30 months of age to move across the border."

Schweitzer said producers would need some form of government support.

Ted Haney, president of the Canadian Beef Export Federation, said the risk status of Canada and the United States remains unchanged."

He said the closing of borders over a single case of mad cow disease is a "near-hysterical overreaction."

The United States, which is tracing 80 other cows imported from the same Alberta herd, may be able to retain a mad cow-free status to soothe anxious trading partners that banned American products after the announcement.

U.S. officials say they won't make a decision on whether to reopen the border to live cattle from Canada until the investigation is complete.

Americans banned Canadian cattle and beef products after the May 20 case. Some products from young cattle, thought to be at low risk for carrying the disease, began moving across the border in September.

Mad cow disease eats holes in the brains of cattle. Humans can develop a deadly form of the disease by eating contaminated animal parts. During an outbreak in the 1980s, 143 people died of it in Britain.
Guest

Post by Guest »

First, this is the best behaved I've seen Laird in such a confrontation. I see a lot of respect being displayed. Hats off to him
The phantom lurks. Accidental insult, deliberate? Where's my respect Bill.
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

Hey Laird , Bill just has a particular style .... :roll: .
Guest

Post by Guest »

That he does lad...we best keep an eye on him.

Image
User avatar
Bill Glasheen
Posts: 17299
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Nothing wrong with a bit of style. So long as I don't start asking you if this kilt makes my ass look too big...

- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Hmmm must be a man Magnet thing Marcus, I'll keep an eye on the lad too :roll:

Remember Laddie it's only good to scream harder harder when you be curling :wink:
Guest

Post by Guest »

Image

Lets let everyone vote mate. :wink:
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Clyde , are you daft lad? Now everyone knows the answer :roll:
Post Reply

Return to “Realist Training”