armor piercing, incendiary, explosive shells being purchased by civilians?
Caught the 60 minute segment on this subject last night. Disturbing that such shells exist, but even more disturbing that civilians have them and there is no way to keep track of them after sold.
Can anyone provide a reasonable reason for owning them?
Hunting??? Self protection??? Bringing down an airline???
Why 50mm. . .
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gmattson
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Why 50mm. . .
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
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RACastanet
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First, there is no record of a .50 cal being used by a terrorist or any other ne'er do well in this country. The rifle is very long, very heavy, and very expensive. Virtually all of the Barrets have been purchased by the US Military. I have never fired one but would love to try one.
There is a legitimate long range target sporting use for the 50 BMG. Not much good in the brush for deer though.
What will hapen now is 'gun control by increments'. If the law bans .50 cal period, that will eliminate about 100% of rifles used by black powder enthusiasts as the are typicaly .50 cal or larger. It may specifically ban the Barrett but I have not seen the wording. But now that .50 cal anything is banned, soon .50 cal everything will follow.
Armor piercing ammo is widely available. But, even the plain vanilla 30-06 and .308 I fire from my M1s will penetrate 1/2" of steel and an inch or more of aluminum armor. If you go to the FBI website and look for crimes using this type of mil surplus weapons and ammo you will find that the incidence of such usage is so low that the FBI has no category for it.
My opinion on all of this is that it is just uneducated extremist hype foisting opinions on an uninformed populace in hopes of scaring them.
You stated " Bringing down an airline???" They got to you!
Rich
There is a legitimate long range target sporting use for the 50 BMG. Not much good in the brush for deer though.
What will hapen now is 'gun control by increments'. If the law bans .50 cal period, that will eliminate about 100% of rifles used by black powder enthusiasts as the are typicaly .50 cal or larger. It may specifically ban the Barrett but I have not seen the wording. But now that .50 cal anything is banned, soon .50 cal everything will follow.
Armor piercing ammo is widely available. But, even the plain vanilla 30-06 and .308 I fire from my M1s will penetrate 1/2" of steel and an inch or more of aluminum armor. If you go to the FBI website and look for crimes using this type of mil surplus weapons and ammo you will find that the incidence of such usage is so low that the FBI has no category for it.
My opinion on all of this is that it is just uneducated extremist hype foisting opinions on an uninformed populace in hopes of scaring them.
You stated " Bringing down an airline???" They got to you!
Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
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RACastanet
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Good catch Allen. 50mm is the size of a mortar round, and those are not legal in the hands of civilians.
I do have one 30mm cannon round with a tungsten penetrator. This is the round used by the A10 Warthog tank buster aircraft. Back when GE manufactured the 'Vulcan' series of gatling guns one of my GE friend's office had them stacked all over. Much more popular than a pen as a givaway. But, that is another story.
Rich
I do have one 30mm cannon round with a tungsten penetrator. This is the round used by the A10 Warthog tank buster aircraft. Back when GE manufactured the 'Vulcan' series of gatling guns one of my GE friend's office had them stacked all over. Much more popular than a pen as a givaway. But, that is another story.
Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
Because the CBS hatchet job, produced with input from the anti-gun crowd, isn't about 50mm, it was about .50 caliber. Besides the fact that CBS "journalism" should be COMPLETELY discredited now, the truth is, as Rich pointed out:
- A .50 caliber rifle has NEVER been used to commit a crime in the U.S.
(Now don't think for a second that the anti-gun psychologists aren't
grooming some patsy to do that as we write...)
- A .50 caliber rifle almost always is a bolt action that IF it has a magazine is usually 5 rounds or less.
- A .50 caliber rifle is used in long distance (1000 yds, 1000 m, 1 mile) competition by VERY highly skilled competitors.
- A .50 caliber rifle is HEAVY and LARGE. The one I had personal experience with was at least 25-35 lbs, stripped down and when placed on the butt standing was around 4 FEET tall.
- A .50 caliber rifle is EXPENSIVE to purchase. Lower cost versions start in the$4k range. AND they're EXPENSIVE to shoot. The ammo, even when being done cheaper by an experience private reloader still runs well over $1 PER ROUND... and that's the CHEAP stuff... average cost is around $2.50 per round.
- A .50 caliber rifle is more than most gun ranges and clubs can handle, requiring membership at special clubs, with 1000 yd+ firing range, that charge extra for the special membership to use the special range.
- Finally, and most importantly... IT'S YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!
WHY should they be allowed to BAN something that has NEVER been used in a crime? Regardless of the lies, manipulations, and other BS thrown out by the gun ban commies, it is NOT a "WMD". Yes, it can kill someone from a farther distance, but dail in that Shiloh-Sharps .45-110 and you can do the same thing with an "antique". This has NOTHING to do with the GUN and EVERYTHING to do with CONTROL! The gun banners LOST the last election and they can't STAND it. So, they have to revert to their tried and true tactics of divide and conquer.
Don't knock fun shooting with a .50 caliber until you've tried it!
Now, for your viewing pleasure...
Here's a picture taken from the 1000yd firing line looking downrange at the targets. This is the view with the naked eye... NO zoom.
Now here's the SAME picture from the same spot looking downrange 1000yds at the targets. This is the view through the camera with the 6X zoom fully on. Note the numbers across the target area. Those numbers are actually over 8 FEET tall and the target is mounted above # 13. The target is 6'X6'...
Here's a picture of the target. Remember it is 6'X6' and you can see how
"accurate" we're talking about. This was actually some better than decent shooting. Also, in the background on the right you can see the corner of the full-sized shed for storage. That's a LARGE padlock, not your run-of-the-mill home center version. The targets are very expensive, so to save money they are re-used as much as possible... thus the "target taped over the target". it is the full thing that is 6'X6'.
And finally, (with face blacked out to protect the... ummmm... innocent),
here is a picture with a 6'2" man shooting a .50 cal bolt-action at the firing line. Naturally all proper safety precautions and equipment were followed. Notice the size of the rifle AND the size of the rounds sticking up in the box next to the rifle.
I have a couple of dummy .50 rounds as a "souvenir". I also had to join the club, pay dues, join the "special" range, pay dues, and all just to shoot one afternoon. No "guests" allowed, only members. And you can only be a member if you're introduced by a current member or you're active/retired military/LEO with credentials or letter from your agency. On the tactical ranges that day (different scenerios setup) there were quite a few "black SUVs" with government plates parked... Regardless, even with pitching in $20 for ammo (I shot 10 rounds... and that sucker KICKS! You can see more than 10 rounds on the target because my host tweaked the scope with a few rounds first...), paying the annual member dues of $50 (it included a nifty club pin
) and paying the $50 "special range" dues/fee... it was WORTH it. Even with a sore shoulder and ears ringing (I used ear plugs AND 29db muffs... that sucker is LOUD!) it WAS WORTH IT! Had to stop between shots just to wipe the smile off my face!
- A .50 caliber rifle has NEVER been used to commit a crime in the U.S.
(Now don't think for a second that the anti-gun psychologists aren't
grooming some patsy to do that as we write...)
- A .50 caliber rifle almost always is a bolt action that IF it has a magazine is usually 5 rounds or less.
- A .50 caliber rifle is used in long distance (1000 yds, 1000 m, 1 mile) competition by VERY highly skilled competitors.
- A .50 caliber rifle is HEAVY and LARGE. The one I had personal experience with was at least 25-35 lbs, stripped down and when placed on the butt standing was around 4 FEET tall.
- A .50 caliber rifle is EXPENSIVE to purchase. Lower cost versions start in the$4k range. AND they're EXPENSIVE to shoot. The ammo, even when being done cheaper by an experience private reloader still runs well over $1 PER ROUND... and that's the CHEAP stuff... average cost is around $2.50 per round.
- A .50 caliber rifle is more than most gun ranges and clubs can handle, requiring membership at special clubs, with 1000 yd+ firing range, that charge extra for the special membership to use the special range.
- Finally, and most importantly... IT'S YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!
WHY should they be allowed to BAN something that has NEVER been used in a crime? Regardless of the lies, manipulations, and other BS thrown out by the gun ban commies, it is NOT a "WMD". Yes, it can kill someone from a farther distance, but dail in that Shiloh-Sharps .45-110 and you can do the same thing with an "antique". This has NOTHING to do with the GUN and EVERYTHING to do with CONTROL! The gun banners LOST the last election and they can't STAND it. So, they have to revert to their tried and true tactics of divide and conquer.
Don't knock fun shooting with a .50 caliber until you've tried it!
Now, for your viewing pleasure...
Here's a picture taken from the 1000yd firing line looking downrange at the targets. This is the view with the naked eye... NO zoom.
Now here's the SAME picture from the same spot looking downrange 1000yds at the targets. This is the view through the camera with the 6X zoom fully on. Note the numbers across the target area. Those numbers are actually over 8 FEET tall and the target is mounted above # 13. The target is 6'X6'...
Here's a picture of the target. Remember it is 6'X6' and you can see how
"accurate" we're talking about. This was actually some better than decent shooting. Also, in the background on the right you can see the corner of the full-sized shed for storage. That's a LARGE padlock, not your run-of-the-mill home center version. The targets are very expensive, so to save money they are re-used as much as possible... thus the "target taped over the target". it is the full thing that is 6'X6'.
And finally, (with face blacked out to protect the... ummmm... innocent),
here is a picture with a 6'2" man shooting a .50 cal bolt-action at the firing line. Naturally all proper safety precautions and equipment were followed. Notice the size of the rifle AND the size of the rounds sticking up in the box next to the rifle.
I have a couple of dummy .50 rounds as a "souvenir". I also had to join the club, pay dues, join the "special" range, pay dues, and all just to shoot one afternoon. No "guests" allowed, only members. And you can only be a member if you're introduced by a current member or you're active/retired military/LEO with credentials or letter from your agency. On the tactical ranges that day (different scenerios setup) there were quite a few "black SUVs" with government plates parked... Regardless, even with pitching in $20 for ammo (I shot 10 rounds... and that sucker KICKS! You can see more than 10 rounds on the target because my host tweaked the scope with a few rounds first...), paying the annual member dues of $50 (it included a nifty club pin
) and paying the $50 "special range" dues/fee... it was WORTH it. Even with a sore shoulder and ears ringing (I used ear plugs AND 29db muffs... that sucker is LOUD!) it WAS WORTH IT! Had to stop between shots just to wipe the smile off my face!-
gmattson
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On Rick's forum
Are we talking about the same gun?
_________________
The BuchHorn™ 209 Magnum is and ultra-modern conventional in-line. The heart of this high-tech smolepole is the precision rifled 24" barrel with a 1:28" twist. It's powered by an extremely hot 209 ignition system and will handle 150 grain magnum charges with ease. The BuckHorn rifle also comes standard with a thumb-actuated safety, Illuminator™ Fiber Optic Sights, dual-barrel retention points and a Bullet Guiding Muzzle. Another feature that really sets this gun apart from the competition is its radical new stock design. The buckHorn's unique stock features Grip Dot panels to ensure a comfortable "non-slip" grip. Not bad for a rifle that retails for slightly more than a Ben Franklin.
_________________
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
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RACastanet
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This appears to be a black powder hunting or target rifle. It likely uses a cap and ball, or maybe a sabot. But, at .50 caliber, it will suffer along with the Barrett.
The Barrett is a huge long range rifle, and costs about 75 to 80 Ben Franklins. It uses the old Browning .50 caliber cartridge.
Rich
The Barrett is a huge long range rifle, and costs about 75 to 80 Ben Franklins. It uses the old Browning .50 caliber cartridge.
Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
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Bill Glasheen
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RACastanet
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Panther, what can I say... I'm jealous.
Here is a similar view I have shown before. This is also a .50 cal, just a select fire version known as 'Ma Deuce'. I took this pic with a disposable camera. The targets in center field are captured Iraqi vehicles about 700 yards away.
Here is a similar view I have shown before. This is also a .50 cal, just a select fire version known as 'Ma Deuce'. I took this pic with a disposable camera. The targets in center field are captured Iraqi vehicles about 700 yards away.
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
I think that maybe, to conteract the anti-gun CBS alarmist propaganda, we need to figure out how to get GEM down to VA for a premium cigar, a glass of well-aged scotch, and (most importantly) a trip over to the Knob Creek shoot!
Hoooooooo-Yaaaaaahhhhhh!
(Strap an Uzi 9mm SMG across your back, jump on the Hog, and take a road-trip!
)
I've had my hands on a Ma-duece, but not one that was loaded... it was at a show... Talk about "Rock 'n Roll!!"
Rich, you're "membership" gives you access to all the good toys!
And Bill, we don't need no stinkin' Hellfires to have a good time!
Hoooooooo-Yaaaaaahhhhhh!
(Strap an Uzi 9mm SMG across your back, jump on the Hog, and take a road-trip!
)I've had my hands on a Ma-duece, but not one that was loaded... it was at a show... Talk about "Rock 'n Roll!!"
Rich, you're "membership" gives you access to all the good toys!
And Bill, we don't need no stinkin' Hellfires to have a good time!
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benzocaine
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Everyone,
That gun put up by GEM is my Christmas present.
It's hardly like the gun that Panther is talking about.
My gun is called a smole pole for a reason. The powder it takes is slower burning than centerfire ammo. The range is no where near what a 50 cal with centerfire ammo gunpowder. Also, if I put regular gunpowder in it the barrel would explode
It is a pleasure to shoot a smole pole. The slow burning powder is less noisey than a regular rifle and produces less kick.
That gun put up by GEM is my Christmas present.
It's hardly like the gun that Panther is talking about.
My gun is called a smole pole for a reason. The powder it takes is slower burning than centerfire ammo. The range is no where near what a 50 cal with centerfire ammo gunpowder. Also, if I put regular gunpowder in it the barrel would explode
It is a pleasure to shoot a smole pole. The slow burning powder is less noisey than a regular rifle and produces less kick.
The reason I posted about the .50cal as I did was that was what was being pushed to be banned on the CBS 60 minutes report. Californication has already banned them. And, even though the gun Ben is talking about is,
as Rich already pointed out, a "black powder" rifle... and even though many States, such as Massachusetts even, allow deer hunting with "primitives" (IE: black powder rifles), the fact is that those black powder rifles usually use a .50, .54, and sometimes even .60 caliber sabot. SO, Ben... According to the way the recent ban was written in Californication, if your black powder rifle shoots a .50 caliber sized projectile (or larger), then it is BANNED in CA. Oops! 
Also, I was also told by someone that the recent CA ban had to be "fixed" to exempt shotguns... You see a 12 gauge shooting rifled slugs has a "greater than .50 caliber" projectile!
It was all part of the "divide and conquer" mentality that the gun-banners have used all along, but didn't have to resort to during the Clinton years, and have now reverted back to.
as Rich already pointed out, a "black powder" rifle... and even though many States, such as Massachusetts even, allow deer hunting with "primitives" (IE: black powder rifles), the fact is that those black powder rifles usually use a .50, .54, and sometimes even .60 caliber sabot. SO, Ben... According to the way the recent ban was written in Californication, if your black powder rifle shoots a .50 caliber sized projectile (or larger), then it is BANNED in CA. Oops!
Also, I was also told by someone that the recent CA ban had to be "fixed" to exempt shotguns... You see a 12 gauge shooting rifled slugs has a "greater than .50 caliber" projectile!It was all part of the "divide and conquer" mentality that the gun-banners have used all along, but didn't have to resort to during the Clinton years, and have now reverted back to.
