Another dumb headline

This is Dave Young's Forum.
Can you really bridge the gap between reality and training? Between traditional karate and real world encounters? Absolutely, we will address in this forum why this transition is necessary and critical for survival, and provide suggestions on how to do this correctly. So come in and feel welcomed, but leave your egos at the door!
Post Reply
MikeK
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:40 pm

Another dumb headline

Post by MikeK »

Efforts to deport illegal immigrants thought to be gang members or sexual predators have snared those with no criminal past, advocates say
What part of illegal don't they get.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longi ... ny-li-mezz

Casualties of a crackdown
Efforts to deport illegal immigrants thought to be gang members or sexual predators have snared those with no criminal past, advocates say
BY BART JONES
STAFF WRITER

A desperate Josu� Suarez needed to land a job, but as an undocumented immigrant he lacked valid identification. So a year ago he went to the Department of Motor Vehicles, walked over to the counter and handed over a phony work permit as identification to apply for a non-driver's ID.

DMV employees quickly noticed the bogus document, and department investigators arrested Suarez, 21, of Central Islip. When he showed up at Nassau County jail to serve his 18-day sentence for using a forged instrument in January, authorities ran his name through a database and discovered he had an outstanding deportation order issued in 1990 -- a year after his family brought him across the U.S.-Mexico border at age 5.

On March 3, he was deported to his native Honduras, a country he barely remembers after growing up on Long Island. Today, he and 14 other relatives sleep on the floor of a great-aunt's house in San Pedro Sula.

"They sent me to a country where I know nobody, where I have no life and no future. Every day is a new shocker for me," Suarez said in a telephone interview, adding that where he lives the toilet doesn't work and the water from the kitchen sink reeks. "I'm not going to drink water you can smell."

Suarez has been caught up in what immigration lawyers and advocates said is an escalating crackdown on undocumented immigrants, with beefed-up immigration and law enforcement agencies cooperating more closely and sharing more sophisticated databases. Authorities say the campaign is designed to catch gang members and sexual predators who are here illegally, but immigration advocates say undocumented immigrants who have committed minor offenses or have no criminal record also are being arrested and deported. The number of noncriminal deportations has more than doubled in the last four years, according to the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

"When you have a crackdown on immigrants, what happens is a lot of innocent people get swept up," said Huntington-based attorney David Sperling, who represents Suarez. "They're tearing families apart and causing terrible trauma."

Suarez's mother, Maria Suarez, a Bay Shore factory worker, is devastated. "As a mother, as a human being, it is unjust that they deport a boy without investigating the situation," Suarez, 45, said in Spanish. "With so many criminals here, they take an innocent boy."

Her son could have qualified for temporary legal status in the United States a few years ago, but she said she could only afford the $500 immigration and legal fees for her and elder son Franklin, 23.

In the past, undocumented immigrants like Suarez and Brazil native Marino Gomes da Silva, who was picked up in a sweep of unlicensed home improvement contractors in Suffolk County last fall and will be deported this month, generally remained undetected in the United States for years, Sperling and other attorneys said. Gomes, of Bay Shore, is married to a U.S. citizen and helps parent her two U.S.-born children, but like Suarez had an outstanding deportation order he said he never knew about.

A zero-tolerance policy

What immigrant advocates call a "zero-tolerance" policy began after the 2001 terrorist attacks and has intensified in the last year or so, said Judy Golub of the American Immigration Lawyers Association in Washington, D.C. She noted that ICE deported a record number of undocumented immigrants in fiscal 2004, 161,346, about half of them without criminal records, according to ICE. That's an increase from 145,651 the previous year and 116,026 in fiscal 2002.

At the same time, state DMV figures show the number of people arrested for using phony documents has soared from 140 in 2000 to 870 in 2004.

ICE spokesman Marc Raimondi said the agency has stepped up enforcement of immigration laws after it was created two years ago to replace the former Immigration and Naturalization Service to keep the nation safe.

"The way to restore integrity to the U.S. immigration system is to enforce the laws and that's what we are doing vigorously," said Raimondi, adding that ICE is on track to break its deportation record this year. "For far too long the immigration system was seen as optional. Our message today is if you have an order of removal or if you're here illegally, you need to start moving toward the door or you're going to get paid a visit by ICE."

He added that the agency prioritizes who it goes after, targeting gang members and sexual predators. But, he added, any person who entered the country illegally should be deported. Deportations of undocumented immigrants with no criminal records have jumped from 34,487 in 2000 to 76,181 in 2004. They've also gone from making up one-third of all those deported to nearly one-half.

Immigration-control proponents said ICE's stricter enforcement is a step in the right direction, although it reaches a small number of undocumented immigrants compared with the estimated 10 million to 12 million believed to be in the United States.

Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C., a think-tank that favors tightening immigration, said that while he sympathizes with Suarez, his parents are to blame for bringing him here illegally.

"They knew they were breaking the law and putting their child in a situation where he would grow up as an illegal alien," he said. "The family is in effect saying the American people have to bear the cost for their law-breaking and their mistake."

But immigration advocates counter that the immigration system doesn't work because hardly any U.S. visas are approved for low-skill workers for jobs in construction, landscaping, restaurants and factories. They're calling for comprehensive reform creating a mechanism for them to migrate legally, and note that President George W. Bush has proposed a guest-worker program.

"We need to enforce the law, but the law doesn't make sense right now," Golub said. "We want the government to focus resources on the people who mean to do us harm, not the people who are uniting with family members or working."

Suarez can barely remember the night his family crossed the border on foot and in a rubber inner tube they floated across the R�o Grande. They were detained by immigration authorities in Texas and released, his mother said.

The couple and their children -- then ages 11, 7, 5 and 2 -- made their way to Long Island unaware that an immigration judge in Texas had ordered them deported a year after they crossed the border.

Maria Suarez asked that her family be given political asylum in 1990, and they all received legal Social Security numbers and work permits. By 16, Josu� was on the 4 p.m.-1 a.m. shift at Wal-Mart in Islandia. He paid taxes and filed tax returns.

When his permit expired, Josu� wanted to work to help support his mother, who had separated from his father. So in April 2004, he followed an aunt's advice and used the bogus work permit to get the DMV identification.

After the outstanding 1990 deportation order was uncovered when he got to jail, Sperling asked that Suarez's case be reopened and he be allowed to stay. But immigration Judge Bertha A. Zuniga denied the motion, writing that "while this court is sympathetic to respondent having been acclimated to living in the U.S., nonetheless his family bears the burden of his unfortunate predicament." She said Suarez could have taken action after he turned 18 to remedy his immigration problems, such as applying for the temporary protected status his mother obtained.

He was taken to Passaic County Jail in New Jersey, where on March 3 guards told him he was going to Central America. "I never in a million years thought I had a deportation order when I was 6 years old," Suarez said.

He can't get a job in Honduras, the second-poorest country in the hemisphere, because the economy is a shambles. He said he was robbed at gunpoint by men who entered the house and took $250.

"He's being returned to a place that's increasingly dangerous" because of street gangs who target people like him, said Jodi Goodwin, an immigration attorney in Texas, who works with Honduran immigrants.

Suarez has company. His father, Jorge, 46, was picked up by immigration agents at his house in Brentwood in March and deported. Suarez's girlfriend, Honduran native Antonia Madrid, 20, left Central Islip shortly after to join him.

The Suarezes are not the only undocumented immigrants on Long Island arrested in the crackdown. Gomes da Silva came to the United States in 2000, fell in love with Bay Shore resident Ana Carrera, and became a stepfather to her children, Frankie, 8, and Angel, 15.

But last October Gomes, 33, was picked up by Suffolk police during a sweep of unlicensed home improvement contractors ordered by County Executive Steve Levy. Police ran his name through a federal database, which yielded an old deportation order issued against Gomes in Harlingen, Texas, that he didn't know about, Sperling said.

After a night in jail at the Third Precinct in Brentwood, ICE agents took him to Passaic County Jail, where he spent three weeks. He was released after his case was reopened, and later at an immigration court hearing agreed to leave for Brazil by May 12.

"I almost can't sleep, always thinking about how I have to leave," Gomes said in the Spanish he has learned from Carrera. "I don't want to go."

Carrera, 34, who emigrated from Guatemala when she was 5, worries about how she and her sons will survive without Gomes. "It's OK to get people who commit these crimes, these sex offenders," she said. "But they get the wrong ones, ones who are working hard and trying to maintain their families."

Levy said his campaign is aimed at undocumented immigrants who commit serious crimes. Gomes' plight, he said, is largely the result of actions by federal immigration agents. "Once these needed stings to curtail unscrupulous contractors are concluded, it's up to the federal authorities to decide what will happen to persons determined to be here illegally," Levy said.

Gomes acknowledges he entered the country illegally -- to flee the poverty of Brazil, where he started working in construction at age 7. He said he was detained by immigration agents in Texas, signed papers in English he didn't understand, and was released, thinking he was free. An immigration judge later ordered his deportation.

Now many of Gomes' and Carrera's friends are writing to immigration authorities to keep Gomes in the United States. "Marino and Ana belong together," wrote Freeport podiatrist Dr. Jeffrey Warren, who has employed Carrera as his office manager for 15 years. "They are a perfect pair."

Carrera has filed an application to bring Gomes back as the spouse of a U.S. citizen, but Sperling said it would take at least nine months before immigration officials reach a decision. "Everyone deserves a chance," she said.

Suarez also has few if any options for returning legally because none of his immediate relatives are U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents, Sperling said. His outlook may be bleak but Suarez isn't giving up hope of returning to Long Island. "That's where my home is," he said, "whether the government likes it or not."

Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.
I was dreaming of the past...
cxt
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:29 pm

Post by cxt »

Feel bad for the kid--I honestly do, but he is not here legally-and he is not alone.
IJ
Posts: 2757
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 1:16 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Post by IJ »

He was not here legally. That makes him a criminal. It is worth pointing out that almost everyone reading this post is also a criminal. Some thoughts:

Everyone speeds. Everyone with a car, anyway. This puts other people's lives at risk, wastes gas, and makes us dependent on foreign oil. But, we have to live our lives.

Many to most people drank or smoked or both or more underage. It was illegal, they felt we didn't have capacity... but we did.. so we... did.

Drugs? Anyone? C'mon. You're out there. Maybe it was just weed.

How about sex? Until a few years ago same-sex sex was illegal in many places and considered a 5yr 25k felony in many. Oral sex is / was illegal in many places yet 86% of young married couples had indulged when I looked up the law / facts on the matter in college. I'm sure it's higher now. How about having sex when you were underage? Nobody?

My point is, yeah, they broke the law, yeah, they get deported. Yeah, we need to look out for foreign (and domestic) terrorists. But who's honestly going to pretend that if THEY were born into a stinking slum by chance instead of the OC or something that they wouldn't consider trying to better themselves by doing hard work? Especially since the dude was brought here at age five--can we at least charge him as a minor?
--Ian
User avatar
Panther
Posts: 2807
Joined: Wed May 17, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Massachusetts

Post by Panther »

"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris.

"We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's
not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power
and we mean it...

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government
has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't
enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be
a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?

What's there in that for anyone?

But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced
or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers –
and then you cash in on guilt.

Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you
understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

-Ayn Rand, 'Atlas Shrugged', 1957
User avatar
Panther
Posts: 2807
Joined: Wed May 17, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Massachusetts

Post by Panther »

So, now that I've given my basic beliefs on the whole "criminal" situation, even if they were more elegantly stated by Ayn Rand prior to my birth...

Let's acknowledge that there are an enormous amount of folks who have come to the U.S. without going through the proper legal immigration channels. Estimates run at about 3 million a year! A significant percentage of those people do very low paying jobs (and the companies that employ them KNOW they're illegals and take full advantage of that), but there is a very significant number that never pays into our system and yet get the benefits of the hard-working tax-paying citizenry and legal immigrants who are in the U.S. Most recently there is a group that is trying to force Massachusetts to allow illegal aliens who have lived in Massachusetts for 3 or more years to be allowed to go to State Universities at the tuition rate of "in-state" students. That's a break of over $10k per year! A break that "out of state" students who are here legally or are citizens do NOT get. In the data that I saw recently, they could find NONE of the families of these potential illegal alien students who had filed any tax returns or paid any taxes at all! They did find a number of them who had been collecting public assistance for a number of years... go figure.

Given this part of me that has ancestry traced back before all you wassitchu's got here... You should all go away. But since there is also this part of me that has ancestry traced back beyond these shores (as I suspect most have) it is evident that the U.S. was founded by immigrants. It could be argued that they were illegal immigrants. Regardless, there are specific laws concerning immigration to the U.S. and those laws are there to protect the citizenry of the U.S.

I don't mind productive people looking for a better life. No one should... On the other hand, there are enough problems with U.S. citizens who need a helping hand for us to take care of everyone who wants to come to the U.S. with their hand out. And one of the main issues that immigration laws address is the immigration to the U.S. of other country's criminal population (and it doesn't refer to "political" prisoners)...
User avatar
Bill Glasheen
Posts: 17299
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Panther wrote: And one of the main issues that immigration laws address is the immigration to the U.S. of other country's criminal population
Ever heard of a fellow by the name of William Penn?

Sorry, couldn't resist... :P

Hey Ian, I drive like grandma going to church on Sunday morning. And never touched any of that whacky weed stuff. And my mom is a virgin.

Yea, that's the ticket! 8)

- Bill
User avatar
Bill Glasheen
Posts: 17299
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

And yet...

As hard as it is to get into a good school these days, and as hard as my sons are struggling in school now as I type, why the hell should I subsidize someone getting into my state institution who never paid taxes and didn't live by the system, and have that person take my sons' places?

Screw 'em! Send 'em all back on the boat they came in on... :twisted:

- Bill
IJ
Posts: 2757
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 1:16 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Post by IJ »

Agreed. You know what the homeowner taxes are on my new place out here? Primarily for local schools?

$7,500 a year. Happens to be FAR higher than all the locals who last had their house assessed across the steet when it cost a nickle.

And you know how many kids me and mine have or expect to have? Less than one. I NEVER want to pay for services for all of latin america, which is 20 minutes from here... but our ER's and hospitals are collapsing under the strain of caring for illegal immigrants.

It's a mix of compassion and realism... but I can't ever fault the ones who came looking to contribute to the land of opportunity.
--Ian
User avatar
Panther
Posts: 2807
Joined: Wed May 17, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Massachusetts

Post by Panther »

William Penn duly noted Bill... ;)

But you do realize that there have been immigrants (both legal and illegal) who have later been found out to have been convicted murderers and/or rapists in their home country. Fortunately that is a pretty rare occurance with legal immigrants.

I couldn't agree with Ian more... I don't have any problem with anyone wishing to come to "the land of opportunity" and contribute to the future success of the nation.

Then again, on a business trip to AZ last year it was noted that there were a large number of mexicans who worked in the area legally every day as commuters!! They had daily work visas, crossed the border (about 50 miles away or less), went to work at a whole host of jobs and went back home across the border when their workday was done. They didn't pay U.S. taxes and they didn't get U.S. services. They were Mexican nationals, living in Mexico, working in the U.S.
User avatar
Redbeard
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:48 am
Location: Humboldt, AZ

Post by Redbeard »

In regards to what Ian said, and some other things I have heard about property taxes, I'm starting to think that the idea of a "homeowner" in many states of the U.S. is almost a lauphable term. Property tax in my opinion is robery whether its $5 or $5000. My dad had a friend in upstate New York that had to move out of a house he had lived in for 40 years because he could not afford the property tax.
I believe in a flat sales tax and thats it. No income tax, property tax, inheratance tax, etc.
MikeK
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:40 pm

I think Vince just slighted the brothers.

Post by MikeK »

I think Vince needs a visit from Conde to set his ass straight.
Mexico's Fox toughens talk on U.S. immigration law

Fri May 13,11:29 PM ET

Mexican President Vicente Fox called recent U.S. measures to stem illegal immigration a step back for bilateral relations on Friday and said Mexican migrants do jobs "that not even blacks want to do."

In comments likely to raise the temperature of the immigration debate, Fox defended the role of undocumented Mexican workers in the United States to a group of Texas business people meeting in Mexico.

"There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States," he said in a speech broadcast in part on local radio and reported on newspaper web sites.

Fox said recent, tougher measures against immigrants do not represent "the road we should be building between friends and partners."

Mexico has been seeking an accord with Washington for years to make it easier for millions of illegal Mexican immigrants to live and work in the United States. The country expects to repatriate this year more than 250,000 foreigners, mostly Central Americans headed for the U.S. border.

Mexican hopes were raised early last year when President Bush proposed a temporary worker program but it has become bogged down in Congress.

A key partner in U.S. border security, Mexico is upset at new U.S. controls on foreign-born people, including tougher rules to obtain drivers' licenses.

Congressional Republicans attached the immigration changes to legislation providing $82 billion in emergency funds for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush is expected to sign the legislation into law soon.

The law, approved unanimously by the Senate on Tuesday, waives environmental rules to allow the extension of a fence on the border between California and Mexico to stop illegal immigrants. Mexico calls the measure "overly extreme."

But Fox said he was encouraged by a bill put forward on Thursday by Sens. John McCain, an Arizona Republican, and Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat, to allow some of the estimated 10 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States to get legal jobs and eventual citizenship.

"I hope President Bush will support and push the initiative, as he has publicly agreed. I have to take his word and hope he delivers," Fox said.

Copyright © 2005 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
Copyright © 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Questions or Comments
Privacy Policy -Terms of Service - Copyright/IP Policy - Ad Feedback
I was dreaming of the past...
User avatar
Bill Glasheen
Posts: 17299
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Man.... I could get fired for a remark like that.

Amazing. How totally clueless can you get? It reminds me of Jimmy Carter going down there in the 1970s during the Arab oil embargo. Jimmy wanted to make nice so we could get some guarantees on Mexican oil. The then president of Mexico scolded him in a speech at a formal dinner for only coming down then and only because we needed something. So Jimmy gets up and tries to say something to break the serious and abusive mood. He tells what he thought was a joke. He describes the last time he came to visit, and ended up with "Montezuma's revenge." Oh my... Even Rosalyn (his wife) put her head down in her hands.

I agree, Mike. Send Conde down to bitch-slap him around some on an intellectual level. Nothing like getting humiliated in such a fashion by a "lowly black."

- Bill
Post Reply

Return to “Realist Training”