Offensive school mascots?

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Offensive school mascots?

Postby Bill Glasheen » Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:12 pm

From USA Today...

NCAA bans Indian mascots during postseason

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — The NCAA banned the use of American Indian mascots by sports teams during its postseason tournaments, but will not prohibit them otherwise. The NCAA's executive committee decided this week the organization did not have the authority to bar Indian mascots by individual schools, committee chairman Walter Harrison said Friday.

Mascots like Illinois' Chief Illiniwek will
be banned from postseason tourneys
under the NCAA's ruling.
By Seth Perlman, AP

Nicknames or mascots deemed "hostile or abusive" would not be allowed on team uniforms or other clothing beginning with any NCAA tournament after Feb. 1, said Harrison, the University of Hartford's president.

"What each institution decides to do is really its own business" outside NCAA championship events, Harrison said.

"What we are trying to say is that we find these mascots to be unacceptable for NCAA championship competition," he added.

At least 18 schools have mascots the NCAA deem "hostile or abusive," including Florida State's Seminole and Illinois' Illini. The full list of schools was not immediately released.

Not all schools with Indian-related nicknames are on that list. NCAA officials said some schools using the Warrior nickname do not use Indian symbols and would not be affected.

North Carolina-Pembroke, which uses the nickname Braves, will not face sanctions. NCAA president Myles Brand explained said the school's student body has historically admitted a high percentage of American Indians and more than 20% of the students are American Indians.

Schools on the list could still appeal.

"I suspect that some of those would like to having a ruling on that," Brand said. "But unless there is a change before Feb. 1, they will have to abide by it."

Major college teams also would not be subjected to the new rules because there is no NCAA Divsion I-A tournament or playoff.

Vernon Bellecourt, president of the National Coalition on Racism in Sports and Media, was pleased with the postseason ban but had hoped for even stronger action.

"We would have hoped the NCAA would have provided the moral leadership on this issue, but obviously they've chosen to only go halfway," said Bellecourt, a member of the Anishinabe-Ojibwe Nation in Minnesota.

The NCAA two years ago recommended that schools determine for themselves whether the Indian depictions were offensive.

Florida State, for example, has received permission from the Seminole tribe in Florida to use the nickname. That, however, will not suffice.

"Other Seminole tribes are not supportive," said Charlotte Westerhaus, the NCAA vice president for diversity and inclusion.

Among the schools to change nicknames in recent years over such concerns were St. John's (from Redmen to Red Storm) and Marquette (from Warriors to Golden Eagles).

The NCAA plans to ban schools using Indian nicknames from hosting postseason events. Harrison said schools with such mascots that have already been selected as tournament sites would be asked to cover any offensive logos.

Such logos also would be prohibited at postseason games on cheerleader and band uniforms starting in 2008.


Oh my... Should I be offended?


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Postby Kevin Mackie » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:49 am

Not at all Bill..maybe there's something more offensive here...

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Who's complaining?

Postby Griffin » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:30 pm

I wouldn't want to offend anyone from a Native American tribe, but I would think they would be honored, knowing that a university had shosen to symbolize their reputation as fierce warriors with an undominable (is that a word?) spirit.
But then, when I attended Jacksonville State University, the tree huggers from PETA asked the University President to change our mascot from the Gamecocks because it "promoted cock fighting." What? Our mascot symbolized the ferocious competitiveness of the Gamecock. Anywho...
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Postby Panther » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:43 pm

Since this debate first started (at least 10-15 years ago) from certain PC people and groups, I've been disgusted with the protests.

Using this very flawed logic, such team names as "Cowboys", "Tarheels", "Mountaineers", "Celtics", "Fighting Irish", "Demon Deacons", "Vikings" (and the list goes on) must be banned as well! (Not to mention the animals that may be offended. :roll: )

I read these stories and see them on Toilet-Vision and it always strikes me as odd that the people claiming this is necessary state that the reason is because these mascots are demeaning to native American TRIBES.

Let me tell you... The native circles I travel in (being part native... a small part), get more upset at being called "Tribes" than they do with some sports team using an Indian mascot! History shows that the Native Americans were independent NATIONS. The Seminole NATION, The Cherokee NATION, The Onandaga NATION, the Wampanoag NATION, The Navajo NATION... get it? I want to grab these PC folks and tell them where they can put that whole "Tribe" bit. MOST real native Americans I know feel like they're short-changed and demeaned by the use of "tribe" than they are demeaned by having some sports team's mascot. The use of "tribe" characterizes them as savages, heathens, and a host of other connotations. A NATION has rules and heirarchy and civility and tradtion. Using tribe instead of nation robs us of that civility and lowers us to savages.

I really want a sports team to be called the "firewater breathing mohawked scotsmen"!!!


Bill, I think it would be interesting if a large group of Irish-Americans wrote a similar protest letter to the NCAA demanding that Notre Dame change their mascot and name. Also any of the various "Celtics" names being used! THe NCAA reaction would be very interesting and telling. :idea:

Perhaps we could get some French-Americans to do a similar protest... OH wait, no one has a french mascot... the "Fighting French" would just get a laugh from the other team anyways... :lol:
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Postby Griffin » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:13 pm

Sorry if I have offended anyone by using the word "tribe." I have a small part of Native American heritage myself, and am honored to be able to claim it.
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Postby f.Channell » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:47 pm

The term they teach my kids is "Native American".

My daughter (13) actually gets mad at me when I say Indian.

When I tell my students to sit "indian style" they give me blank stares.

In 20 years when you say indian people won't know what your talking about.
Or think you are referring to motorcycles.

Glad Custer isn't alive to see it. :lol:

We also had a complaint about a paddy wagon in our towns parade this year..........

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Postby Panther » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:04 am


No need to apologize at all... I think people need to lighten up on this type of stuff. I was just pointing out that many of the "whiners" on the tube are also saying things that are insulting and they don't even realize it. The real irony of that is the folks making the insulting comments claim to have the heritage they're insulting!

{rant mode == on}

Com'on... You can't say a joke about someone's race, religion, heritage, etc., etc., etc. BUT, people make fun of the mentally handicapped ("retarded", "moron", "idiot", etc.), people with Southern accents or heritage ("rednecks", "inbred", "hicks", etc.), are obese or have weight problems ("fatso", "two-tons", "whale", "tub o' lard", etc.), enjoy higher mathmatics, engineering, computers and excel in those areas ("geek", "nerd", etc.) and all of that is just fine.

Are those stereotypes any less hurtful?

Are those comments any more accurate or appropriate?

Why are THOSE jokes more acceptable?

Why are THOSE targets more acceptable?

Where's the outrage there?

The attitudes and actions of people haven't changed, only the targets of the vitriol.

PC is BS... end of subject. If people really want to stop being cruel at the expense of others and really want to stop unfair stereotypes, hurtful comments and actions, then they need to stop across the board. Otherwise, they just show themselves to be the same tired plastic people with a slightly different cellophane wrapper.

Do redneck jokes upset me? Used to, but not any more.

Do Indian jokes upset me? Used to, but not any more.

Do ethnic jokes upset me? ... not any more.

How about jokes about religion, race, mental or physical handicaps, obesity or the rest of the list... not any more.

People need to get over this type of stuff.

If someone tells a joke about a Southerner marrying his sister or cousin or something like that, I get it... I'm not thick... I understand the premise of the joke... and it doesn't bother me because growing up in the South, knowing people who are from the South, knowing people who live in the South, I know that is an incorrect stereotype. The main reason it isn't funny is that... well, come ON... don't people have any imagination any more?!? Can't they come up with something better than that? Can't they come up with something better than a warmed over Jeff Foxworthy routine?

It may be funny once, but it gets old quick. And you wouldn't BELIEVE the number of folks in the "enlightened Northeast" that think that's the best they can come up with when they meet someone and find out you're from the South! :roll: OR the number who immediately want to rehash the (not-so)Civil War! :? At LEAST come up with something funny or original. Fercryinoutloud...

I enjoy a good joke based on stereotypes and I don't get upset about it. I wish more groups would "get over it" as well... and as odd as it may seem, when I hear those jokes, it doesn't make me believe the stereotypes.


{rant mode == off}
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Postby RACastanet » Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:48 pm

Bill: In case you missed it this was in the Sunday Sports section...

"Other mascots annoy
Hey, NCAA, while you're at it, get rid of the leprechaun"

For the story: ... 5855934844

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Postby chewy » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:44 pm

Personally, I think they've taken this PC thing a little too far.

But what do I know? I'm just a dumb Polack... :roll:


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Postby Bill Glasheen » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:24 pm

I can guess what you are thinking. You're thinking an Irish-American is not an oppressed minority.

Well, you couldn't be more wrong. Irish immigrants were given a very bad time in America when they first came here. They were treated as suspicious foreigners. Their ancestry and accents were mocked. They were maligned as "Micks" and stigmatized as brawling drunks.

Therefore, I would like you righteous brothers and sisters at the NCAA to put an end to the degradation of this "Fighting Irish" slur once and for all.

A lot of us don't fight. I don't fight. Well, I did toss a guy out of a bar in Greece last summer, but he was drunker than I was.

That's what the world is missing today - a damned sense of humor.

Good thing we have the Irish! :mrgreen:

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Postby TheGreatWhiteBuffalo » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:55 pm

Well, I would think it would be an honor to have a football team named after you. But I think its just so the NCAA can have a good defense if some idiot decides to sue. Because then they can say an investigation was conducted and we already corrected the problems we found offensive. Stupid none the less. But since Im a UF fan they can always change their name to the Florida State Criminoles!!
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Postby Guest » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:01 pm

TheGreatWhiteBuffalo wrote: Florida State Criminoles!!

HAH HAH! Thats a good one!

Postby Bill Glasheen » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:18 am

From USA Today

NCAA allowing Florida State to use its Seminole mascot
By Steve Wieberg, USA TODAY

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Florida State's fierce defense of its Seminoles nickname and mascot proved successful Tuesday.

Florida State is free to use its Seminoles
mascot at NCAA events.
By Phil Coale, AP

The NCAA granted a waiver in the first challenge to a new policy, removing FSU from a list of colleges whose sports teams, it said, use "hostile or abusive" Native American names and imagery.

"The staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor," NCAA senior vice president Bernard Franklin said in a statement released Tuesday. "The decision of a namesake sovereign tribe, regarding when and how its name and imagery can be used, must be respected even when others may not agree."

The Executive Committee, which unveiled restrictions on such symbols this month, "continues to believe the stereotyping of Native Americans is wrong," senior vice president Bernard Franklin said in a statement. "However, in its review of the particular circumstances regarding Florida State, the staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor."

The tribe officially sanctions FSU's use of Seminoles as a nickname and Chief Osceola as a mascot. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, said Tuesday that it was an "honor" to be associated with FSU.

But dissent has been voiced within the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, primarily by general council member David Narcomey, but the council has taken no official position on the FSU issue, according to Jennifer McBee, the tribe attorney general. Narcomey, saying he was voicing his opinion only, wrote in an e-mail to USA TODAY of the decision: "I am deeply appalled, incredulously disappointed ... I am nauseated that the NCAA is allowing this 'minstrel show' to carry on this form of racism in the 21st century."

FSU athletics director Dave Hart called the decision "the right thing to do." Hart, President T.K. Wetherell, school trustees and state lawmakers reacted angrily to FSU's inclusion on the list, subjecting it to restrictions at NCAA championships. This ruling affects only FSU; 17 others are subject to penalties.

"The two things we requested in our appeal were granted," Wetherell said. "I'm ready to play football, start school and have classes begin and all that kind of stuff."

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