Mutants at the Mall

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Mutants at the Mall

Postby Bill Glasheen » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:25 pm

OK, so maybe this thread isn't entirely "politically correct."

But then... After hearing about the poor Vermont physician who is being raked over the coals for trying to save his patient's life by calling attention to her morbid obesity (a.k.a. being really, really fat), I'm thinking we are enabling people by being too PC. After all, should we allow a drunk driver to lay some BS on us about our prejudice of his alcoholism disability? Those of us who purchase health insurance are paying the bill for this overindulgence.

For more info on that subject, see discussions at DB's Medical Rants

And besides, why can't we have some fun now and then? So... I'll start this here where Panther can tell us when we're getting out of line. :P


Many years back, my soon-to-be wife and someone we both knew had bumped into each other in the mall. At the time, my wife was competing in bodybuilding up and down the east coast. The fellow in question was Ernst Soudek. He was a Ph.D. Professor of Humanities in the engineering school at U.Va. I never had any classes with him, but did manage to have a class with his beautiful and intelligent wife who also taught in the Humanities department. They both were born in Austria. Ingrid (I can now call her that) had no accent, but a trained eye could see her beautiful heritage. Ernst was a bit different. He was a BIG boy... He had competed in the Olympics in the past, representing Austria in the discus throw. And Ernst still had his accent.

If you think there are comparisons here between Ernst, Arnold, and the Hanz & Franz stereotype bodybuilder, well... Ernst had this attitude as a hard-core Austrian athlete before Arnold was Arnold and Hanz was Franz. :P

So anyhow... It seems that one day my present mother of my children and Ernst had bumped into each other in the mall. Ernst and she used to bump into each other in the athletic training facilities at University Hall. Ernst was helping then strength coach Bill Dunn write a book about weight training for basketball (featuring Ralph Sampson) and my soon-to-be wife was training amongst the varsity jocks for her competitions. They knew each other through this athletic medium.

After exchanging pleasantries, Ernst took a look around and commented about the number of "mutants" he saw walking around this mall. When I heard about this conversation later, I had to laugh. Here we had two perfect physical specimen talking about folks who later would be referred to (by Dana Carvey) as "girlie men." Even Arnold gets into the act these days, when trying to kick some political bootie. It's a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it speaks unspoken truth about odd people around us. On the other hand, it says something about the person behind the viewing glasses.


I am not a big fan of amusement parks, but some of my friends are. I don't know... I've had a person who worked for me who could get so excited about the latest rides at Busch Gardens or Pamamount's Kings Dominion. She took a week trip to Disneyworld, and thought she had died and gone to heaven. Rich's family has gotten season passes to the local parks, and his daughter earned quite a few bucks there over various summers working for the places. But I go, because I have boys and I suppose it's fun for them. I end up going maybe once or twice a year.

It's worth mentioning that number 1 son earned quite a bit of college money as a 5-year-old playing a "major" part in a Paramount commercial for King's Dominion. It's strange how we stumbed into that, but we did. So I suppose I should be very grateful indeed.


When I go, I can't help but see... MUTANTS! Lots and lots of them.

Look, let's be clear. I've seen more than a few people in wheelchairs who are having a day out of their institutions. That warms my heart. I looked yesterday at one elderly black woman in a wheelchair with white hair and one eye, and thought how wonderful it was that her family got her outside. That is a very good thing indeed.

No, I am not talking about people with genetic issues. I am talking about hideously out-of-shape people who for god's sake should never be showing the skin and flesh that they show.

Look... I realize that the Alpengeist and Apollo's Chariot probably contributed to the nausea I had with me from their corkscrew and loop-the-loop turns. But for crying out loud... When you see people who obviously have ruined their skin from a lifetime of smoking and being out in the sun without sunscreen, when you see teenage girls with midsections that roll over the waistlines of pants that can't stay on because the girl doesn't have a butt muscle to hold it up, when you see rolls of tatooed fat that is tanned and intentionally exposed for our viewing, ...


:bad-words: :silly: :crazyeyes: :evil:

It's not just this time; it's every time I go to these parks. I joked with my son about how the nausea I had all day may not have been from the rides screwing with my vestibular system, but from the horror I had to view before my eyes. He knew exactly what I meant, and laughed with me.

OK, so maybe I'm being bad. Or maybe not. Maybe it's time that people who take horrible care of themselves and then expect "the system" to take care of them should catch a little bit of good-natured abuse. It's worth mentioning that you don't see people like this in Germany, where they eat fatty food but walk to places most of us drive to without a thought. What a surprise that these average Germans look so much better...NOT!

What is it about these places that attracts so many of these people? I have my theory on this, but want to hold it back for now. Maybe this is all me, after all. Maybe I'm turning into Hanz and Franz, and need more sensitivity training.


- Bill
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Postby Kevin Mackie » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:41 pm

I don't know, Bill. Maybe I have a built-in "mutant filter", but my eye tends to gravitate towards the more perfect specimans at malls. If you're going people watching, why subject yourself to visual agony? 8O
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Postby f.Channell » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:18 pm


You know it's the fried dough.
They should offer "biggie" fried dough as a preminum option.

I remember going one time to a free concert in Boston and arriving early and still being too far away from the stage to see it.

Then an ambulance pulled up and they wheeled out a huge obese person and........
You guessed it, wheeled her right up next to the stage.

To concur with Bill, in my trips to Italy, Switzerland and Germany I have had a hard time seeing any obese people.

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Postby chewy » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:38 pm


You are not alone in your agony. Myself and a couple of my closest friends are self-admitted "fatists". We arent' claiming to have an Ah'nold, Lance Armstrong, or T.O. physique, but there is a difference between "yeah I could lose 10-15 lbs." and "That guy probabably can't fit in the seat of any ride in this amusement park!". It's disturbing and gross... even more so when you happen to see a morbidly obese person at a restaurant not even making an effort to slow their rate of consumption (or their caloric intake).

I can take it most of the time, but when I'm eating across the way from one of these individuals, it makes me lose my aappetite. Hey! There's a great new diet fad waiting to be discovered! Before you eat another byte... LOOK AT THIS PERSON! :twisted:

Incidentally, a little on the state of German health.... everything there is not as great as it appears. My wife's family once hosted an exchange student from Germany who turned out to be anorexic. Her condition wasn't noticable until 3 months into the visit and then things really started going downhill fast. My, now in-laws-then-girlfriends-parents, were very concerned and got her admitted to a local hospital. They then called her parents to inform them, but had a hard time convincing her partents that there was a problem. They sent photographs of her and THEY STILL DIDN't SEE A PROBLEM.

After a many more conversions with the parents, other Germans, and a after a few visits to Germany since then, it is appears to us that many Germans look the other way when it comes to eating disorders. They may not be OVER weight on average, but some are too UNDER weight; and nobody seems to care. It's almost taboo there to even suggest that someone may be bulemic or anorexic.

That's my $3.11 (the price I paid for a gallon of gas this morning).


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Postby Kevin Mackie » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:49 pm

Come on, these people try. I understand that many are trying to curb their appetite by taking something before regular meals to make them feel full. Like.. a bucket of fried chicken or a large meatlover’s pizza.

And are some of them uuuuggglllyyy? I overheard a woman at the CVS tell the clerk she needed some cover-up, and the clerk asked “paper or plastic”?

Where’s the rim-shot graphics at?
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Postby Bill Glasheen » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:52 pm

For those who think our dark humor is insensitive and uncalled for, this publication from the CDC just made it across my desk this morning.

- Bill
Children and Teens Told by Doctors That They Were Overweight --- United States, 1999--2002

The percentage of children and teens aged 6--19 years in the United States who are overweight nearly tripled to 16% during 1980--2002 (1). Overweight and obese children and teens are at greater risk for many comorbid conditions, both immediate and long-term (2). Their risk is approximately 10 times greater than that of normal weight children for hypertension in young adulthood, three to eight times greater for dyslipidemias, and more than twice as great for diabetes mellitus (2). To determine what percentage of overweight children (or their parents) and teens were ever told their weight status by doctors or other health-care professionals, CDC analyzed data from the 1999--2002 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES). This report summarizes the results of that analysis, which determined that 36.7% of overweight children and teens aged 2--19 years had been told by a doctor or other health-care professional that they were overweight, and teens aged 16--19 years were more likely to be told than parents of children aged 2--11 years. By discussing weight status with overweight patients and their parents, pediatric health-care providers might help these patients implement lifelong improvements in diet and physical activity.

NHANES is an ongoing series of cross-sectional surveys on health and nutrition designed to be nationally representative of the noninstitutionalized, U.S. civilian population by using a complex, multistage probability design.* During 1999--2002, populations of persons aged 12--19 years, non-Hispanic blacks, and Mexican Americans were among those oversampled. The analyses described in this report include data from 1,473 children and teens aged 2--19 years who were determined to be overweight. This sample represented the approximately 10.3% of U.S. children aged 2--5 years and 16.0% of children and teens aged 6--19 years who were overweight. Overweight was defined as having a body mass index (BMI) (calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared) >95th percentile on the BMI-for-age, sex-specific 2000 CDC growth charts for the United States.†

Parents of overweight children aged 2--11 years were asked, "Has a doctor or health professional ever told you that [child] was overweight?" Parents of those aged 12--15 years were asked, "Has a doctor or health professional ever told [child] that he/she was overweight?" Teens aged 16--19 years were asked, "Has a doctor or health professional ever told you that you were overweight?"

Results were stratified by sex and age and by sex and race/ethnicity. Pregnant females were excluded from analysis. Weighted prevalence estimates were calculated. A chi-square test for trend was performed to evaluate the effect of age. Individual t-tests were performed to test differences between racial/ethnic populations. The cutoff for statistical significance was p = 0.05. Bonferroni adjustments were used to account for multiple comparisons between racial/ethnic populations.

Among all overweight children and teens aged 2--19 years (or their parents), 36.7% reported having ever been told by a doctor or health-care professional that they were overweight (Table). A significant increasing trend (p<0.05) by age group was observed in the percentage of the overall sample told that they were overweight (17.4% for ages 2--5 years, 32.6% for ages 6--11 years, 39.6% for ages 12--15 years, and 51.6% for ages 16--19 years). Similar trends by age group were observed among males and females. Among racial/ethnic populations, overweight non-Hispanic black females were significantly more likely to be told that they were overweight than non-Hispanic white females (47.4% versus 31.0%). Among those informed of overweight status, 39% of non-Hispanic black females were severely overweight (BMI >99th percentile for age and sex), compared with 17% of non-Hispanic white females.

Reported by: CL Ogden, PhD, National Center for Health Statistics; CJ Tabak, MD, EIS Officer, CDC.

Editorial Note:

Annual well-child visits to health-care professionals should include measurement of BMI to determine weight status, as recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics (3). Without intervention, many overweight children will grow up to be overweight or obese adults (4,5). The following four behavioral strategies are recommended for families with overweight children: controlling the environment, monitoring behavior, setting goals, and rewarding successful changes in behavior (6). Families with overweight children might be more motivated to make these changes if they are recommended by a doctor or health-care professional.

In a study of adults who had visited their physicians for routine checkups during the preceding 12 months, fewer than half of those classified as obese (i.e., BMI >30 kg/m2) reported being advised by their health-care professionals to lose weight (7). A study of 473 children in Kentucky determined that overweight condition had been diagnosed in only 29% of 93 overweight children (i.e., BMI >95th percentile); however, that study did not report whether the diagnoses were shared with children and parents (8).

In the study described in this report, significant differences in being informed of overweight status were observed by age group and race/ethnicity. For example, 51.6% of teens aged 16--19 years were informed of their overweight status, but only 17.4% of parents of children aged 2--5 years were informed, possibly suggesting reluctance by health-care providers to inform parents of the weight status of very young overweight children. In addition, non-Hispanic black females were more likely to be told that they were overweight than were non-Hispanic white females. However, 39% of non-Hispanic black females informed of overweight status were severely overweight, compared with 17% of non-Hispanic white females. Health-care providers might have been more likely to discuss weight status with patients who were severely overweight.

The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, NHANES data are cross-sectional and therefore cannot capture information about duration of overweight in these children and teens; a longer duration of overweight might have made a provider more likely to inform a child or parent of the child's overweight status. Second, teens might have had more visits to a health-care professional than young children and therefore more opportunities to be told of their overweight status; however, multiple logistic regression controlling for number of health-care visits during the preceding year produced similar results. Third, the question regarding being told of overweight status was asked of parents for children and teens ages 2--15 years and of teens themselves for those aged 16--19 years. Overweight teens might answer this question differently than parents of overweight children, resulting in either a lesser or greater difference among age groups in reports of being told of overweight status.

Among overweight children who become obese adults, earlier onset of childhood overweight is associated with higher BMI in adulthood (9). Previous findings suggest that children begin to respond to environmental cues regarding dietary patterns by age 5 years (10). Thus, early recognition and discussion of overweight status is a necessary first step to developing healthier lifelong behaviors. Addressing overweight among children and teens requires recognition by health-care providers, discussion of potential consequences with families, acknowledgment of those consequences by families of affected children, and a commitment to work together toward attaining a healthier lifestyle (6).


CDC. Prevalence of overweight among children and adolescents: United States, 1999--2002. National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Hyattsville, MD: US Department of Health and Human Services, CDC, National Center for Health Statistics. Available at ... wght99.htm.

Must A, Strauss RS. Risks and consequences of childhood and adolescent obesity. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999;23(Suppl 2):S2--S11.
Krebs NF, Jacobson MS; American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Nutrition. Prevention of pediatric overweight and obesity. Pediatrics 2003;112:424--30.

Serdula MK, Ivery D, Coates RJ, Freedman DS, Williamson DF, Byers T. Do obese children become obese adults? A review of the literature. Prev Med 1993;22:167--77.

Guo SS, Wu W, Chumlea WC, Roche AF. Predicting overweight and obesity in adulthood from body mass index values in childhood and adolescence. Am J Clin Nutr 2002;76:653--8.

Dietz WH, Robinson TN. Overweight children and adolescents. N Engl J Med 2005;352:2100--9.

Galuska DA, Will JC, Serdula MK, Ford ES. Are health care professionals advising obese patients to lose weight? JAMA 1999;282:1576--8.

Louthan MV, Lafferty-Oza MJ, Smith ER, Hornung CA, Franco S, Theriot JA. Diagnosis and treatment frequency for overweight children and adolescents at well child visits. Clinical Pediatr(Phila) 2005;44:57--61.

Freedman DS, Khan LK, Dietz WH, Srinivasan SR, Berenson GS. Relationship of childhood obesity to coronary heart disease risk factors in adulthood: the Bogalusa Heart Study. Pediatrics 2001;108:712--8.

Rolls BJ, Engell D, Birch LL. Serving portion size influences 5-year-old but not 3-year-old children's food intakes. J Am Diet Assoc 2000;100:232--4.

* Available at

† Available at
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Postby cxt » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:36 pm

The doc's sttaement was NOT an insult--it was a specific and accurate medical opinion.

The worse part is not the complaint itself--the worse part is that they got the local medical board to contact the doc and question his bedside manner-in an offical capacity and in a writing.

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Postby IJ » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:44 pm

Many will enjoy this. A famous site that espouses the view that morbid obesity is really just another variation, like green eyes.

More later.
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Postby Panther » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:57 pm

And then there are those who were once in fairly decent shape, but after life-altering experiences found themselves with the challenges of merely getting through each day with as little pain as possible. It is easy to put on extra weight when simply walking borders on excrutiating... not to mention the need for major pain meds in order to fake out the sensei so you can attempt to workout without tears streaming down your face. So what's the choice... potential addiction to pain meds in order to stay somewhat active, become less active and gain more weight (even with cutting back on calories), or just laugh at the "fatso" and "mutant" jokes because you and your doctor still haven't figured out how to make being active "bearable"?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fat people and Rednecks are the funniest people in the world! :D
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Postby RACastanet » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:03 am

I realize that the Alpengeist and Apollo's Chariot probably contributed to the nausea

I love those rides. Over the years I have ridden coasters thousands of times. If you keep the vestibular system conditioned even riding in the midst of the mutants is no problem.

Personally, I favor wooden coasters. However, Apollo's Chariot is a great metal track coaster. Kings Dominion has the 'Volcano' which is even better. It uses a linear induction motor to accelerate you from 0 to 60 in a second or so to shoot you straight up through the volcano. If you really like acceleration KD has the Blast Coaster that uses an aircraft carrier type launch system to top even the Volcano's performance. Head snapping!

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Postby IJ » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:31 am

So the paradox of obesity. Everyone says weird things about it...

--that we don't know the cause (oh? what about eating more and exercising less, and then, CEASING to exercise because one cannot, and taking up more eating as a pasttime? Anyone who wants to blame genes can explain to me why rates are exploding while genes are unchanged).

--that nothing works for it, except maybe gastric bypass (the only treatment recommended for the largest people. Well, has anyone seen the machinist? Christian Bale needed to become, well, deathcamp for that movie. He simply stopped eating, and ended up weighing 3.4 grams. People say there is no effective diet, but the fact is just that there is no diet that people want to follow. Eat less exercise more, and weight loss is inevitable.

--then there's this moral reaction to the condition. People view the obese, quite often, as gross, and also GUILTY. They ATE their way there. But somehow the gaze is LESS scrutinizing when it involves a smoker dying of heart attack, MI, or emphysema. Why? Is it something like horrible BO, where evidence of poor self care is so publicly evident that those who care about the presentation they make to others are offended by those who don't try?

--we have a subculture of the super obese seeking normality now. See webpage above. They're calling morbid obesity attractive, neutral, normal; a source of pride. Sometimes this is good--remember "the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice?" Even today the black models on magazine covers are frequently light skinned. Or there are controversial situations--for example, the fight over normalizing same sex relationships. These carry zero intrinsic health risks, but toss in irresponsible behavior on the part of large swaths of the subculture, and you DO end up with public health consequences.

What is a physician to do with a morbidly obese patient? They HATE being told they are fat. Afterall, they cannot give up fat like a smoker. Smokers often hate being told not to smoke; fat people frequently feel fine and doubt the health concerns, and feel the physicians are making moral judgements. And reactions of most people, including doctors, to obesity are harsher to more socially neutral behaviors that are no less harmful. What about not exercising? This is more closely linked to trouble than BMI but fat people generate a more negative reaction from nearly everyone.

Plus, there's no easy solution. If your weight is stable, you can gain a pound a week eating 500 extra calories a week, which is easy to do. It's simpler to stuff yourself and call it a night that it is to go hungry--we've all done it. So its easy to put on weight, and calories are denser and cheaper than ever. And readily available. Heavily advertised. And no one seems to know how to consume a carrot anymore because its not in a microwavable package.

But want to LOSE weight? Now you reverse your 500 calorie excess to become stable, then you have to cut our 500 more a day to lose a pound a week. At the UVA gym it took me 30-35 minutes of FIERCE exercise in my early twenties to kill 575 calories on a bike (tho my current bike allowed me to burn 1400 in and hour--i doubt it). A heavy person couldn't do that TWICE a day, or once, so they're going to have to revamp their whole ingrained habit of eating too much. Daily, just to lose 4 pounds a month. When you're 500#, or even 250, you're looking years of error free eating to get back to your healthiest weight. That's tough--a 500 calorie cake mistake ruins a whole day.

But if you ever want to see the consequences, visit a wound clinic or hospital. I have several patients too big to move... exams are nearly impossible, I can't hear lungs or hearts or feel abdominal organs; often they cannot be scanned due to size, even. Legs swell and painful sores develop, ooze, and never heal most of the time... everything is harder to bouncce back from... patients often need a rehab center to recover, but that center may refuse someone who needs 4-5 caretakers to roll to clean under. Iv's cant be placed, central lines get infected; diabetes, heart problems, and other problems ensue. Funny thing is many end up malnourished. Weak, disabled, starved--despite a sea of calories available. At that point little works and chronic illness is the rule.

What do people propose THEY or WE do?
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Postby Panther » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:10 pm

Ian (friends),

It is not "normal", but it has become the "norm". :(

99% of those packing extra weight have no one to blame but themselves. In a recent conversation with my doctor, who by the way doesn't couch anything in "PC" terms, she offered a list of medical options. I turned them all down. There is only one formula for losing weight, as you've already pointed out... Eat less, Exercise more. MY problem has mainly been with getting the exercise. Fortunately I have a sister, among others, who are helping me to get the exercise without the impact. It's working and has been for a number of years, but slooooooowly... and there have been some setbacks.

The problem (IMNSHO) isn't calling things as they are, it's dehumanizing humans. So, besides having to deal with the issues of being overweight (yes, even the guilt of getting that way in the first place), people also have to deal with not being considered human because of it.

And Richard Simmons (et al) get rich while folks looking for a magic pill have another exercise video collecting dust.

And Carnie Wilson, Al Roker (et al) show America that there IS a magic pill with gastric bypass while no one hears about the much safer "traditional" methods for achieving the same results, albeit with more time and commitment required.

And anyone who's never faced the problem can feel somehow morally superior while comedians make another joke about flubber.

This isn't a tough issue, Doctors SHOULD tell their patients like it is, but forget offering all the "medical" solutions. Some folks are overweight from psychological reasons, get them counselling, others from injury, help with pain management, and most just "super size" too damn much, get them in a group that works out regularly while filling their diet with good fruits and veggies. (I eat fruits and veggies plenty... )

Have fun...
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Postby IJ » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:41 pm

They used to actually wire jaws shut for obesity. It doesn't work. People take in too many calories just thru a straw if they're motivated. There has to be, as you said, a will behind any medical solution since they are so limited in efficacy (although, so are diets--weight watchers was best in an American College of Physicians review, but only marginally effective). Some cases in point:

--someone wanted me to find them funding for a free gastric bypass, when their typical diet was the largest size, meat lovers domino's pizza--more calories than he needed for the whole day. He had no plans to stop--he liked to "feel full."

--someone wanted me to prescribe a drug to block fat absorption "prn" or "as needed." In other words, she was planning to eat unhealthy foods, but wanted to reduce the impact.

--a third was a soda fan contemplating bypass--1% risk of death in good hands. She drank about 9 cans a day--at 32 grams sugar per can, that's about 300 grams a day, or 110 KILOGRAMS--more than a normal persons weight (most men should be ~70) of sugar a year--AND she got sugar from all sorts of other things. She was unwilling to switch to diet.

As a SOCIETY, we have to teach our kids to be active, not just to hit the playstation, and we have to make decisions about how food is marketed so that the "default" or no effort diet is healthier. Average serving sizes at restaurants are insane. Composition is wacko too. And about 80% of the average grocery store is foreign to me because I hit only produce, nonfat dairy, lean chicken, diet beverages, and a few other things. Meanwhile, I haven't used an elevator at my 11 story hospital in a year and park at the farther, downhill staff lot. Our problem is we have set people up to fail... if you DON'T make a big effort you get in trouble all too easily.
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Postby Panther » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:40 pm


First, I've been known to drink ginger-ale on occasion, but in the past 6 months or so I've switched to water, coffee (black), tea (straight) and have even given up having the occasional glass (small with lots of ice) of single malt. So, my first insurance for calorie reduction is drinking lots of water and cutting out any calorie-laden beverages.

Second, I've taken to heart the new "food pyramid" with the abundance of servings of fruits and veggies. I get lots of spinach, broccoli, califlower, tomatoes, lettuce, celery, carrots, onions, apples, oranges, and whatever else I feel like. I do have corn, peas or beans some even though those are actually more "starchy" than the green leafy veggies. And I don't smother things with creamy salad dressing. I have allergies to milk, cheese, casein, whey, more than a couple of peanuts, and more than a little bit of wheat, so all that stuff is pretty much right out for me.

Third, I've brough meat consumption down to 3-4 oz, usually of chicken or pork, no processed foods, red meat once a week, and I average an egg a day. The egg might be hard-boiled with a lunch salad or I may have it for breakfast. No juice for breakfast! It is amazing the amount of empty calories in the form of high-fructose corn syrup that is in things like cranberry, grape or apple juice... and I've noticed that quite a number of the OJs out there have extra junk as well. :roll: So, I've cut out juice... If I want fruit, I just eat it.

Fourth, dessert has become a small handful of the fresh blackberries that are growing on my land. We've picked quite a number of them, washed them, and they are very tasty. Amazing that we got them at all since the deer usually beat us to them.

Fifth, working out is at least 45 minutes a day, 6 days a week right now... (one day off for rest) I'm building back up and it takes time. To be honest, the 45 minutes is just the last week or so, building up it's been ~30 minutes for awhile. My sister, wife and doctor are all helping in various ways with the pain management... I've had times when the back pain or knee pain (old injuries) was so bad that I could barely move. Now with low impact, but effective workout routines, things are getting better. Still, doing squats, thrusts, or pliate (sp) the back and knees can end up hurting... (cutting out the jogging, jumping jacks and jump rope have helped save me from the knee-brace and cane.) I hope to move up to twice a day workouts in a week or hopefully sooner.

Finally, as you know, what goes on quickly takes 10 times as long to come off... But the formula is always the same. Eat half of what you want, stop way before you're full, don't snack, cut out "empty" calories, get moving, get moving some more, turn off the TV unless you're doing an excercise routine! There's nothing on worth watching anyway... ;)
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Postby IJ » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:39 am

Your effort sounds nearly news worthy Panther. The good news, as I'm sure you've figured out, is that while weight loss is a long road, people feel better when they eat and exercise right, right away. Just like people say their porsche runs better on hi octane fuel, go figure...
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