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Protesting Immigration reform

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:16 pm
by benzocaine

Congress is considering bills that would make it a felony to be in the United States illegally, impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border. The proposals have angered many Hispanics.

About damn time! I hope they pass such a bill soon. Then of course our most intelligent President may not sighn it :roll: What would the Fox family think?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:26 am
by Stryke
why dont they just put a bounty on illegals ? :wink: :?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:38 am
by IJ
I live in san diego. I see a ton of impoverished mexicans suffering from untreated or undertreated hypertension, diabetes, and other problems in the USA--and I pay for their care, which they receive free, through my taxes. Many ER's in SoCal have crumbled under the weight. And there's schools and some crime and tons of other issues.

But lets be realistic. If I were impoverished and saw opportunity elsewhere, I would want to take it. Hungry kid vs lack of citizenship would be a short debate. That's why we see tons of foreign medical graduates and nurses pouring into this country to pick up our slack--we're a huge brainpower importer and overuser, just like we exceed our natural energy reserves. Half the nurses at UCSD medical center are Philipina.

Anyway, we can build fences and so on, and we can patrol the border, and that's all cool (though trust me, when you break your leg jumping that fence and complications keep you at my hospital 10 days, you score big--INS doesn't follow you, you get released to the street a free Mexican). The only way we are really stopping illegal immigration, is making northern mexico a somewhat comparable place to work and have plans and hope. This is like drugs. Interdiction is a joke. Supply and demand. And there are lots of californians who like having their food and lawn care provided extra cheap.

Related issue: I think it was in the new england journal, or if not, jama within the last year: estimated costs for treating mexican TB as it comes into the country and spreads here are greater than, get this, paying to help mexico control the spread of TB there and so reducing TB here. I believe the accompanying editorial was titled "Enlightened self interest" or something.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:39 pm
by chewy
As the son of two LEGAL immigrants two this country I agree that is is about time. My mother was just a teen when she came here and had a parent living here, so she got in fairly easily. My father, however, was an adult and had plent of illlegal means at his disposal for entering the US. Instead he chose to do the right thing and follow all the rules and is now a US citizen.

They are both frustrated that their adoptive government is even considering granting illegals citizenship. They both sacrificed too much and worked to hard to see this privilage given away on the cheap.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:11 pm
by -Metablade-
My family spent thousands of dollars, and three years of grueling red tape, waiting in lines for up to 8 hours at a stretch, and numerous interviews just to get green cards.

Now some people want to just "give it away" for doing no more than just for "jumping the fence?"

It's also good to keep in mind that as Illegals go, we aren't getting Mexico's "best and brightest" here, as Mexico is actually a rather rich nation with a wealth redistribution problem. Rather, we are getting the majority of the n'er do well-ers, peasant farmers, criminals, drifters, and other such ilk. I suppose this speaks to America's own past immigration folk, such as from Europe and Ireland, but at least there was an ocean between the lands, and a legislated process, as lackluster as it may have been.
Here, we have very little protective process, and to top it off, there is a growing movement in the Latino community to take back California by attrition.
As the Latino community has reached over 50% in California, the job is so far getting done nicely.

As I have said before, I have no issue with the rich and diverse Mexican-American heritage for which California would not exist without; in fact, it is in itself a culture which I find in many aspects to be heartwarming and worthy of the respect that it deserves.
That said, Peasant life and culture which is soaked in ignorance, superstition and poverty is not Latino culture regardless of what some may think, and it unfortunately is the culture which is gaining more and more ground here in California, which as far as imports go, I think we can do without.

The last issue which I find most disdainful, is that in the minds of many Latino Immigrant movements, anyone who is Latino and for more legislation, is considered for the most part a "sellout" by the immigrant community, and anyone who is non-Latino and for legislation, is labeled a racist.


latino vs. european immigrant attitudes

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:36 pm
by chewy
This is what baffles me about the American Latino community. From everything I've seen, the vast majority of American Latinos oppose any kind of border security or strengthening of immigration laws or their enforcment. Yet almost every immigrant I know of from Europe (and I know quite a few) is in favour of these same ideas. Why the difference in attitudes?

Is this a racism thing? In my heart and mind, I don't believe so. I understand what someone who had to fight their way to becoming a US citizen (no easy task if you follow the legal path BTW) hates the idea of giving citizenship away for border hopping. I just don't understand why the Latino community sees things differently.



PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:31 pm
by -Metablade-
I may be way off base here, but my secret theory is that many Mexicans want California back, and will do simply by numbers.
On the face of it, this may sound like a bit of a crackpot idea, but it may become a self-fulfilling aim regardless, as more and more LEGAL Mexican-Americans become established, and rise in political power, using legal and non-legal immigrants as their constituency base, they will undoubtedly have to take into consideration the desires of those who helped elect them.
Some call it pandering, however I see it as a natural recourse of serving the interests of the people. As time progresses, we should see a gradual relaxation on immigration and more rights for illegals in general.
It seems a forgone conclusion by sheer volume, groups other than Latino will in the coming years become a minority, and when the overwhelming majority is of one cultural grouping, it is not a far cry to say that the laws will be shifted to benefit that majority group.

Beyond that, I have no idea, other than to say:
"How your spanish?"
All in all, being perhaps neither good nor bad, but decidedly different from what has been.

I am certain that this is not the vast majority thought, however since there are groups that exists with this exact agenda, at least in some part, there is consideration.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:17 pm
by Bill Glasheen
We could always annex Mexico... :roll:

- Bill

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:36 am
by Panther
Bill Glasheen wrote:We could always annex Mexico... :roll:

- Bill

Or nuke it...

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:49 am
by IJ
Actually, the vast majority of illegal mexican (and central american, by way of mexico) immigrants aren't bums or criminals. They came here because you get paid more to work here--even as an illegal, migrant worker without benefits. They know that if they screw up, they're much more likely to be gone. They're the ones who are sending money home.

Someone broke into my car last week and didn't find anything of value--not a chance event, since my partners car had been relieved of a navigation system and 500$ worth of CDs about 6 months ago. Anyway, I don't suspect it was an illegal who decided to come here to steal (especially since mexico is a rich nation with a wealth distribution problem, right? why bother to travel?). I think it was the trashy white kid across the street who was using oxys and meth until he finally had the cops called on him--3 cars worth--by his father. I very politely asked if he might suspect that this habit was financed by any theft, and his father was quite appalled by the suggestion. "Oh, I think he steals stuff in Mexico, but not here in his own neighborhood!" Yeah, sure.

Funny anecdote, for me, but I really bring it up because its a bit like drugs to me. Interdiction is a joke. And that's my tax dollars going to the fruitless effort. How about we put all the cheap labor to taxable work instead?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:03 pm
by Bill Glasheen

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:13 pm
by -Metablade-
Ok, granted, the site which hosts articles such as the one I am posting are a bit, If not a lot flaky, so please take this with a grain of salt,
but at the same time, know that there ARE Mexican Klan type
groups alive and well in America. ... eriots.htm

Certainly pictures don't lie.


I think it's time to purchase some protective supplies.
and by protective, I mean large quantities of things which fire projectiles at high velocities.


The Atzlan movement openly states its goal is to create a separatist state that encompasses the entire southern and western states. Their version of Hitler's Mein Kampf is the Plan of San Diego, which outlines the plan to ethnically cleanse the entire region of whites and blacks by mass genocide. Mecha's own slogan reads, "For the race everything. For those outside the race, nothing." Photographs and statements purposefully ignored by the mainstream media characterize this week's protests as part of this agenda, with Mexican flags outnumbering US flags a hundred to one and groups carrying signs that read, "This is our continent, not yours!" and, "We are indigenous! The only owners of this continent!"

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:24 pm
by Panther
And let's not forget the huge influx of MS-13 gangs that has now reached all the way across the country to the east coast. Someone I know was telling me the other day that there are so many illegal mexicans in North Carolina that they've opened Mexican Consulates and are "protecting" their own from our (U.S.) laws! :twisted:

Just an FYI, Meta... There are a number of us on the forums who strongly believe in and have taken the necessary steps of procurement which you speak about... :wink:

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:39 pm
by chewy
Bill Glasheen wrote:We could always annex Mexico... :roll:

- Bill

we already did Bill (at least the best part of it)... its called Texas. :wink:


PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:09 pm
by -Metablade-

No comment necessary.
The photo pretty much says it all.