Page 1 of 3

To protect and defend.....

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:21 am
by Rising Star
So here is an idea to ruminate.

If the detention facility at Gitmo is closed and all of the present detainees are released or transferred..

And, as like those who have been thus far released, ( I believe that 60 some odd that have been released are now linked to new plots to kill Americans), these newly released terrorists become involved in efforts to kill more Americans, has the new president violated his oath of office?

A violation of his sworn oath???? Impeachable????

Not even a week into this administration....

And so many other things to discuss.....

God Bless America!


PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:48 pm
by Rising Star
BEIRUT, Lebanon — The emergence of a former Guantánamo Bay detainee as the deputy leader of Al Qaeda’s Yemeni branch has underscored the potential complications in carrying out the executive order President Obama signed Thursday that the detention center be shut down within a year.

The militant, Said Ali al-Shihri, is suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September. He was released to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with Al Qaeda in Yemen.

His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.

“They’re one and the same guy,” said the official, who insisted on anonymity because he was discussing an intelligence analysis. “He returned to Saudi Arabia in 2007, but his movements to Yemen remain unclear.”

Thus wrote the NY Times.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:59 pm
by f.Channell
I would close the facility and send them home as well.
Only a flock of geese would fly into the turbine and there would be a terrible accident.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:55 pm
by Rising Star
As long as the pilot(s) get out ok, or maybe we could use Saudi pilots?\


PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:50 pm
by f.Channell
I'm not a gamer but couldn't se use one of those Wii things? :lol:

My dad used to be stationed at that base in Cuba and said it was beautiful there. Course no one was torturing him.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:06 pm
by Rising Star
I guess whether or not anyone has been tortured depends on who you listen to. If information that will save American lives can be obtained, shouldn't we use what means are necessary to accomplish that?

I disagree with the notion that the rights and protections of the US Constitution naturally extend to none US citizens.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:01 am
by f.Channell
No problem here with torturing enemies.
If your getting good info out of them.
But after 6-7 years I can't see what they still know which is pertinent to what's going on now.
So send them home at an opportune time when the geese are flying....


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:00 am
by Gene DeMambro
A week into his term, and Jon is already talking about impeachment.

Oh well, maybe Jonn will think of something rational to discuss.

You may disagree that the Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens, but the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches don't agree with you - and they make the rules.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:20 pm
by Rising Star
Actually Gene, you are wrong.

The Legislative branch writes the law, the executive branch proposes law and acts as our figure head for the world and the judicial branch interprets situations in respect to established law and the Constitution (hopefully they are interpreting everything strictly!). Go back to your middle school civics class to confirm.

Creating situations that put the US and its citizens at risk is a violation of the President's sworn oath to 'protect and defend".

Nothing irrational here only a desire for acountability. Yes we are only a week into the administration. I desire as much or more than anyone out there that this President succeed, however, I am not going to write him a free pass, as many will, for fear of being labeled as anything!


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:35 pm
by Gene DeMambro
There is also due process which the President swore to uphold. There is also the aforementioned separation of powers, which the President also swore to uphold.

No lectures from you are necessary - especially since you got the executive branch part wrong - but perhaps a refresher on Constitutional Law on your part is in order?

Have a nice weekend!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:58 pm
by Rising Star
My apologies Gene:

I gave a dumbed down version on the Constitutional powers so as to make it a bit simpler for folks but anytime you want to engage in debate on the origins and function of the Constitution, please let me know. I am sure that it would be an entertaining debate.

No offense intended, but I like to know those with whom I debate, so you obtained your knowedge and understanding of the Constitution where/how?

Does this work better for you?

Section II

[1] The President shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

[2] He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law; but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

[3] The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

Section III
He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the Union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:28 pm
by f.Channell
Come on John. I'm not a lawyer but I did have to pass a Constitutional Requirement as a State College student in Mass. We passed the 14th and 15th Amendment after the Civil War did this perfectly protect blacks during and after Reformation?
If it was 1865 would you feel Abraham Lincoln competent not punishing the leaders of the Southern Cause? Course we know how that worked out for him.
We've punished and tortured these men in Cuba more than we did the leaders of the south who caused over 600,ooo American deaths. (and as I said I don't believe in quarter to our enemies)
There's more gray area and interpretation in that document, which is what keeps lawyers busy.
The Constitution is just as interesting in what it doesn't say, as much as what it does.
Besides Impeachment has been a political circus and joke every single time.
The Superbowl ticket of the time during the 1800's.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:23 pm
by Rising Star
The 14th and 15th amendments :

Amendment 14, section 1 "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, AND (emphasis provided) subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

Amendment 15 - pertains to the voting rights of citizens and although important, it is not germane to the issue on the table.

Those in the South were American Citizens and those currently detained at Gitmo are not. I see no gray area there but heck, lets bring them all here. Let some politically appointed Judge release them into our society, give them welfare, food stamps, maybe some terrorist bail out/start up $$, etc. and trust that our good graces will reform them so that they will see the light and the error of their ways.

I am sure that they would pose us no danger nor return to their ways of old.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:01 pm
by f.Channell
Germane in that the fact that the Presidents had an obligation to protect the blacks in the South, should have enforced voting rights, but did not, and it took 100 years for the first President to work on Civil Rights and enforce those laws enacted by the 14th and 15th Amendments.
Only one example, plenty of others.
So my point being is that Presidents and Governments decide which laws and protections they feel like enforcing, or enforce according to the will of the people. Obviously with Obama's election public opinion is now to let them go, put the war on the back burner and move on and take care of our wallets, because jobs are dropping like snow in Vermont and soon we'll be living in caves like OBL.
I say get off oil so the chief import from the Middle East is pistachios, hurt them in their wallets.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:53 am
by Gene DeMambro

Now you are talking nonsense.