Tachypsychia

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Tachypsychia

Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 16, 2002 2:16 pm

Jim,

You seem to be stuck on Wing Chun superiority, and that’s okay.

You keep on making comparisons: Wing Chun vs. other styles, technique, and training methods wise, and that’s okay too.

But again, I would not take it too far, lest people really become annoyed with this talk of implied superiority. I have received quite a few email messages about this from the readership at large.

We have been through this many times before over the years, and it is a colossal waste of time to discuss style vs. style __ something that can go on forever.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I thought, Van Sensei that you said the Uechi Masters could use the energy techniques on the inside… Can they not use these methods in combat?


This parallels what Raulf has written about what good is karate if it cannot be used. I think you guys are missing the point of this forum entirely because you are new to this page.

Obviously good karate is an efficient way of defense, or we would not be spending most of our lives practicing.

The thrust of this forum is to bring to the fore and explore various modern methods that augment the usefulness of karate or Kung Fu or whatever style people may be sold on, and also to explode myths of martial arts, of which there are many.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Seriously, I have to infer based on what you assert regarding the degradation of technique under stress….


Understand that those are assertions of scientists after much study, as proven by the lethal force instructors, and as evidenced by modifications in their training to improve survival.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I am also not convinced that the ability for anyone to enter this event is open to anyone. If it really is open to anyone then so much the better because one day this myth will be squashed, hopefully by one of us.


My understanding is that anyone can enter UFC or NHB contests. It would please many budoka to see a wing Chun or other traditional martial artist go in and be a winner against the likes of a Tank Abbott, as an example, just to restore respect to karateka the world over who were vilified by the experience.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Not us, in fact I believe it’s made us stronger. I (we) now train to defend against take-downs as much as anything else.


The NHB contests in our area, where our Uechi champion, Joe Pomfret fights, are certainly open to anyone if you or other members of the wing Chun family are so inclined.

I would enjoy watching a clear victory by a strictly traditional, stand up fighter, who won’t get thrown to the canvass.

I agree with you that to invite a grapple on the streets is not a good idea; but in many situations remaining standing is not an option, regardless of any skills you may possess.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I reassert that if the system anyone trains cannot be applied in combat then something is wrong with the training and if one feels this way then why train a system that cannot be applied in real combat…


You simply must get this thought out of your head, since this is not what we are asserting here.

The thrusts of these discussions for the past four years or so have been to stimulate a deeper understanding and to study ways to increase our effectiveness under the stress of combat.

In order for you to grasp this concept more fully, I would suggest you try to attend a bulletmen scenario seminar..It will be an eye opener as to real or imagined skills.




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Postby Van Canna » Sat Feb 16, 2002 2:24 pm

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Postby Shaolin » Sat Feb 16, 2002 2:31 pm

Hate to ask but what is a 'bulletmen scenario seminar'?

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Postby Tony-San » Sat Feb 16, 2002 3:22 pm

Hey Jim... whatever floats your boat man...

I've always felt that i've been succesful in my practice simply because no one ever fuq's with me. Suprisingly, it has nothing to do with my style of karate, it has to do with where my heart is.
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Postby AlanL » Sat Feb 16, 2002 4:19 pm

I have had the pleasure of taking Bill Kipp's FAST Defense (fear adrenaline stress training) and it's awesome. I've previously posted a video clip of a bulletman attack on this forum. Do a search for "FAST Defense".

If you ever have a chance to do this training do it. It will really make you focus on parts of your style that are extremely effective.

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Postby Shaolin » Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AlanL:
Hi Jim,

Go to www.fastdefense.com for info. There is also a link to RMCAT I would suggest you check out.

I have had the pleasure of taking Bill Kipp's FAST Defense (fear adrenaline stress training) and it's awesome. I've previously posted a video clip of a bulletman attack on this forum. Do a search for "FAST Defense".

If you ever have a chance to do this training do it. It will really make you focus on parts of your style that are extremely effective.

Alan Lowell

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks I saw the clips. Just wondering how is the 'chemical cocktail' created in the senario? I ask because in the training there is, of course, no real danger so what generates the dump, how do they generate that mindset and suspend disbelief?

It looks like fun to me though and I would love a chance to pummle one of them.

Jim


[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited February 17, 2002).]
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Postby Van Canna » Sun Feb 17, 2002 3:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
No one escapes the effects of the chemical cocktail to one degree or another. All fancy techniques go out the window and the participants that think they can pull them off are the ones that get the biggest wake-up call.


This is the biggest denial problem facing the typical martial artist.

A bigger wake up call is the viewing of their supposedly superior techniques on tape after the scenarios, and the difficulty in believing it is actually they, and not someone else on the floor, doing the useless flail.



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Postby candan » Sun Feb 17, 2002 9:17 pm

Seen this with pressure points. A student was "pumped" to totally refuse submission from a much bigger individual. To some degree I believe the "cocktail' kicked in on the one in pain as he seemed like a cornered Raccoon. The frustration apparent on the face of the larger man who eventually ended up pinned and exhausted. This was an eye opener to many who never actually faced aggression. Pressure points work if you account for how long the receptor will allow the pain to exist or most importantly how much success you have in discouraging him from achieving his goal. In controlled conditions such as class or kumite, the goal is not to win at all cost as rules do exist. In a situation where all your known abilities fail and it seems your starting to watch from the outside your futile efferts to regain some resemblance of control as your mind searches for the right responses to ensure its survival let alone any hope of victory..either destroys your spirit or allows it to actually be part of your training. Words can not do justice to insights gained. Senareo trianing of some sort should be a must.
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Postby Shaolin » Sun Feb 17, 2002 9:48 pm

Well it sounds interesting and I would like to try it. There's no fancy techniques in my system and only one punch (chasing fists) that we practice over and over (on people) so I am confident that it will be effective as it has been in the past. The 'from behind' attack actually happend to me on the street before and I was very happy with the results. I'll let you know... Too bad no schools in NYC.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited February 17, 2002).]
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Postby Shaolin » Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by candan:
Must ask if chasing fist has been effective against you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chasing Fists is an exercise and a technique. It is an exercise in the sense that Chasing Fists can be practiced just by itself. It is also taught to Wing Chun students the first day in class. I've been 'stopped' by the fists. They really do hurt like hell and the fact that the strikes are timed so close together makes it feel like they are drilling into you. I have practiced wearing chest armor with the other guy going full power and I could not take more than a minute of it with the armor on (he was bare handed) - so I'd say they stopped me. Interesting foot note: the punch’s leading impact point is the bottom knuckle (wrist locked up) and so the power can be really focused into a small spot.

In Combat Chasing Fists is used generally as a finishing technique, once the line or center has been cleared or is open. It is also sometimes used when the opponent tries to 'run' out of range, it fills the gap well and this actually can happen a lot. It should be noted that we try to avoid using closed fist to the head cause it hurts (ouch!) so some would say this punch is more properly used to the chest area, sternum, or body, which is also closer to the center of gravity and harder to move out of the way. For the head and neck area we normally use open hand strikes.

The punch used in Chasing Fists is called a Cheung Choy and is the punch used 99% of the time in the system – it is also often used in entry by itself. If done right the punch can be very powerful so long as the power comes from the hip. If one raises his center of gravity he will lose power.

In this video the attacker is using this method with his center of gravity raised because he is chasing the other guy with his Chasing Fists. When the opponent stands his ground, and you do too, the punches can have really good power. This is the punch that Bruce called his 1 inch punch because it can be done by an expert from only an inch away and still generate lots of power as Bruce demonstrated...the punch, however, has more power when delivered from a bit further away.


Here is a Jeet Kune Do variation of Chasing Fists, you might want to slow-down the begining to see them more clearly. Also see if you can hear the sound of them hitting the helmet Image


http://www.progressivetacticalsystems.com/Video/Straight%20Blast.mpg



[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited February 18, 2002).]
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Postby david » Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:33 pm

Tony, get the focus mitts and train with a partner. Work on continuous punching combo's. Stay loose. Don't think "power" but speed. Part of the power equation is speed anyway. You can work on a heavy bag but there's less travel. The partner feeding the mitts can backpedal at various speeds so you can chase the target down.

Have mitt will travel. Image

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Postby Tony-San » Mon Feb 18, 2002 2:13 pm

David,

Thanks for the advice. I think i've got plenty of power, but 50% of it never leaves my body. Definatley a waste of potential!

In my field of work, this phenomenoa is often referred to as "High VSWR" (look it up on google, hah!).

Your drills are going to help me get lighter on my feet and get me to move faster. With any luck, I might be able to pull some moves off like that guy did on the video clip.
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Postby Shaolin » Mon Feb 18, 2002 2:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tony-San:
David,
In my field of work, this phenomenoa is often referred to as "High VSWR" (look it up on google, hah!).

Your drills are going to help me get lighter on my feet and get me to move faster. With any luck, I might be able to pull some moves off like that guy did on the video clip.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well like David said...relaxing the muscles and clearing your mind will improve your *Loss Resistance* as any tension in the body (save your fist) will only reduce this factor. Proper structure as in Chasing Fists with your hands out in front of you and in the Centerline will improve your *Radiation Efficiency* and move your hands closer to the target thereby reducing time to target. If you could adapt the punch's arm alignment, keeping the elbow in use a vertical, wrist up punch you might be able to cut down your *Radiation Resistance* to boot. Let me know if I can assist.

Jim


[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited February 18, 2002).]
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Postby Van Canna » Mon Feb 18, 2002 4:25 pm

Yes. Impressive clip of speed and technique.

I posted a similar clip of an English practitioner a while back, whose hand speed was almost diabolical.

Do any of you recall the thread it is under?
How about you Lenny?



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Postby Shaolin » Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AlanL:
Dojo where I have my Uechi classes in Quakertown PA offers this training on a regular basis and is only 2 hours from NYC. Let me know if you're interested. Classes are usually on Saturday afternoon.

Alan

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks for the offer. Right now I am unemployed as an indirect result of 9-11 and I am afraid that I wouldn't be able to do anything cool like that until I get some real money coming in again...sadly this goes for my regular training at a school too at the moment.

When I finally land a job I would love to do it if I can't find one a little closer.


Thanks,

Jim

[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited February 19, 2002).]
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