In Agreement Again

JOHN THURSTON is back and eager to discuss Western Martial Arts, especially relating to its history.


In Agreement Again

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:03 pm

I have just been spending a lot of time on Patrick's Aviation wtching the dogfights in the Alps and performance videos of all kinds.

For example, I didn't even KNOW the Swiss were flying the F-18 although I was aware of some US and Nato sqaudrons going head to head with Former East German Flankers,

I hope we can watch and digest these videos.

the displays of the Fulcrums (also flown by the Ukraine whose jets have visited the US) and the New "Mark" Flanker Nato is calling the Terminator

Do view this site and select videos to download in case the Website goes t---ts up at some point.

i have downloaded the Fulcrum demo and the F-18 vs. Fulcrum video and I am, frankly, having a blast.

I have been told that the Rafale may actually be in the top 10 if not top 5 dogfighters. I know little of them except that, again, they have or had rather short legs and realive short range missles..

The Fulcrum had, in the past, also suffered from rather short legs and shorter range missile capabilities that US planes armed with the fire and forget Amraam AiIM120. Its radar is very powerful as is the radar in the Su-27/33.

the Amraam missile will now become the backbone of the US Navy Mig/Barcap aircraft as the F-14 has retired.

this is a loss to the Navy of the great Range of the Phoenix missile.

The Amraam is sometimes called "the Silver Bullet" but, as its name suggests, (Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile) its range is limited to 30 miles vs. Phoenix's 100+ mile range.

The Navy expects that the carrier wings now made up of Hornets and Super Hornets will save the giga time spent to keep the aging F-14s flyiong.

Personally I hate to see these former Top Guns sent to the Davis Montham "desert boneyard".

But, I suppose, for example, former F106 Mass ANGs may be in very good condition as well as many other boneyard aircraft such as the venerable A-6 Intruder should they need to be unretired in an emergency. Who knows?.

But--who can realy disagree with your notes about the F-16?? Not me!!

All aircraft will eventually be FBW'd-although I must say that the number of US pilots killed while working out the kinks in the FBW system is very saddening. Most problems seemed to revolved around chafing of the wire harnesses used in the FBW system.

Reminds me. sadly, of the Korean Conflict Jet Ace McConnel (sp?) who was killed testing an upgraded F-86--perhaps the H model???

Be sure and get back to the forum if you spot any particularly good videos.


I apologize for not being able to make the link work for you all.

We haven't even gotten through the discussion of Korean war era aircraft.

I have great misgiving about the destruction of many B-52 airframe to comply with the SALT treaties. The Airforrce has shown that the B-52 is such a sound basic design that it will remain in service in the conventional bombardment wings into the middle of this new century.

The limited production runs of the Lancer and Soirit bombers necessitates retaining the B-52.

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Postby Hugh » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:02 pm

John, I think that the F-14s were believed to be rendered obsolete by better surface to air missiles available to the Navy for fleet protection and by the AEGIS syustem.

BTW, I saw that the Iranians had been using middle men to buy items from the scrapped F-14s to upgrade and to maintain the ones that we sold to them in the 1970s. The Navy have taken to overseeing the utter destruction of the F-14s as a result of this. I certainly hope so!
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Postby JOHN THURSTON » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:33 am

Well, I am sure that would be one reason, but the reason given out was that the age of the F-14's themselves (30 years of hard service) was causing heavy hours of maintenance vis a vis the F-18 Marks..

Keeping parts from Iranian hands would be a concern right now.

Another thought is that the US is unlikely to stay with the AMRAAM as such and I hope we will see an 'extended range" missile on an airframe similar to the Amraan soon.

Also, the 'Sea Sparrow" CIWS should or has been upgraged to AMRAAM ranges.

The "Sea Control" Small carriers will become a reality when the V/Stoll Joint Strike fighter version becomes available.

These would be available do deal with more 'Hot spots", as would powerfully armed "Stealth" Raiders as conceived for the book "Choosers of the Slain" .

I am sure the "Sea Control Ships" would be massively cheaper than the Nimitz class, which has its place in 'blue water' operations

One purpose for the proposed stealth Cruiser/destroyer would be to hold the fort until a Major carrier group or Control Ship Group arrived.

Also, keep in mind that many of our retired heroes remain in desert storage at Davis Monthan and could be resurrected if needed.

Certainly i would rather see the retired F14's there than parted out to the Iranians or scrapped.

Oh, yes, I also received a partial report that the Navy was less than happy with the "Bombcat" and/or Super Tomcat in the multiple role version briefly used in Iraqi Freedom.

Hugh, Europe is changing from special purpose aircraft to the "Multi Role Aircraft" such as Rafale, Grippen and Eurofighter The rplacing of other specialized carrier aircraft by multi role Hornets may be a symptom of the same evolution taking place in our own Navy. There are pics of these multi role aircraft shown on the "Real Conerns/Oponents in the Air" thread. and you will note the external similarity of the multi role types.

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