"Uechi Locked"

[JOHN THURSTON]

Hi: this is not exactly a piece on fighting drills per se, but the relutance i receive when trying to get recetance to any non Uechi Drill accepted.

Let's be real. if you are trying to prepare a student for a Godan Promotion which is nearly full contact and where one is completely "gloved up" does it no make sense to teach drills to aid the student in that situation.

We have MMA and Mu Thay practitioners at the main Dojo, who are having an impact on the sparring of students going up. IE: the quality of the sparring is going up, and I do not want my student(s) getting their collective butts kicked.

Jiu Kumite is scored as high as Sanchin on the test---I mean-I AM right about that am I not????

Well Talk about resistance--hmmmm--in a small class very hard to deal with.

The drill(s) Involved mostly were geared to "slipping", using the overhand punch and generally blocking with gloves and forearms with minimum effort, especially punches to the body and head.

The fighting stance is always done with the strong side and the stutter step is not used inside the "hands range" circlem but mostly to close to that distance.

I will try to post pictures.

The Stutter step may or may not take some explanation.

Ask questions Please, all thoughts welcomed.

J

[robb buckland]

The sparring we did in our dojo in the berkshires "Frank Gormans' school" changed dramaticly between the 70s' and 80s........it seemed to go from fighting to point fighting.

There is a lot to be said for incorperating head , body , and footwork rythmic "sparring drills" in to the TMA dojo.

Larry Tan used to call that the "next level"........

[JOHN THURSTON]

Yes,

I worked with a true MMA/Uechi Master level yesterday. My "Cross Training choice, so to speak, is T'ai chi. That form (a Yang Family long form is complex and has and integrated "grappling" system called T'ai Chi Na whose concepts, depth, skill level and breadth are mind boggling enough after struggling through the Main body of the form.

That having been said, I am confronted with another vast and fast growing body of knowledge that is being used in the OKK promotionals by candidates that have had the benefit of working with two very excellent and vari talented fighters.

I would not call their approach necessarily "point" fighting. It is very visceral, new (to me) and effective.

Basically, it incorporates elements of American boxing and Mu Thay. We had an MMA O-1 Championship level visa BBJ champ at the Norwell Mass. Dojo, but we could not outbid the sultan of Dubai, and I failed to spend sufficient time working with him as I felt I was sufficient;y busted up in my ankles (smashed and in braces, but i can still stand move, kick and punch in the way of a stand up grappler.

Oscar's last fight showed his skills and his philosophy, he 'contralled his MMA opponent in 15 seconds after just blocking a few punches and kicks, then he had his opponent tied in a not and tapping out out.

15 seconds. Magic stuff.

Recent MMA sessions have shown that I can at least advance in that area a bit, although I am almost handicapped in the sense that I have to wear KF slippers to hold my braces.

Again, that is TMI and not relevant.

To the point, several of these drill involved a quick reaction retreat to musubi /heisoku dachi and bending the vitals away from the/a kick, . this is done while simultaneous "bowing" the "core" as we would label it in TC, back away from the attack, then springing the "strong side forward foot back out for a counter.

Again, this is based on not tying up the hands (as "bare knckle Uechi fighting" would not allow) .

Imagine a Uechi person bowing his Hara away from the attack and/or absorbing it in this Arched back position.

TC teaches this part, but does not quickly address the counters, and counter movements shown, which I will not try and detail today, as I have not absorbed them well enough and to do so the day after a workout specially given would seem a bit of a break with reality and fairness to the instructor.

The approach mandates much coiling and the abandanment of "ready thrust" position as the hads stay more or less in a "middle guard" position.

This is at odds with traditional Okinawan sparring where the punch must be withdrawn to 'ready thrust" quickly after the strike, or there is "no point".

Nonetheless I warrant to you that more than sufficient power is generated.

I will try and piece together one drill after i have had a chance to talk it over with out MMA/Mu Thay Cross trainer.

hHowever, I am using Boxing punches and covers in as many drills as my students will allow without rebellion.

One of them is from middle guard where one simply absorbs the first body punch -say a right almost rear hook/cross punch with A's right on one's own elbow, (left side) while swaying away from the attack slightly, then uncoiling quickly delivering a left jab while uncoling from the blocking position.

More later.

J

[robb buckland]

LOVE Tai Chi !!!!!..........Professor Robert Xavier (Fla ) was my Tai Chi link ....remember that alot of the Uechi fighting we see is not as GEM or Uechi sensei would have had us do much hard not enough soft flow .If you watch the movements of Sensei Malony or Bethany or Cambell in action youll see soft flow (rolling "giving" center followed by brutal explosive HARD finishing techniques ...if you get savy and Im not with the video upload , please supply the video you are speaking of . Much is to be said for cross training in the attributes of which you speak !!! Persons who lack the benifit of a truely balanced training regimine will benefit greatly from this !!!!

[JOHN THURSTON]

Hi:

I am one of the few Uechi people that has been "given permission" to teach the form noted above.

Any mention of it, mostly, in my small class, nearly produces a mutiny.

Nevertheless, if you desrie, I can detail some TC drills.

My Sifu is a 'seventh generation' yang family system Master-and i will catch hell for missing two classes this week.

Push Hands?

J

[robb buckland]

Why Cross train ?

Discussion on the "check hook."... Do not let Jack Dempsey's "shovel punch" (the inside hook) get you confused. Obviously, this check hook is a counter punch executed exactly like what Philadelphia's old school boxers call "the forty-five." There is supposed to be some type of slide step just prior to triggering this punch, either a pivot in (on left foot) against a South-paw or a pivot out (also on left foot) against an orthodox hooker. Supposedly, the attacker is going to lunge past you leaving himself open for this counter punch called the check hook.

I have often successfully used this same counter punch against most all attacking techniques, round kicks, straight rights, left jabs, and/or the shooting of a grappler. I was taught not to hook with a hooker---unless he's a dud or super slow. It requires exceptional "interception" timing, catching the attacker in the middle of his offensive strike as you will view in the Mayweather/Hatton clip below. Note that Mayweather does not pivot at all (although he begins to pivot out on his right foot), as he lands his counter against Hatton's incoming hook while on just one foot.

Study the below clip (two minutes-plus) closely and you can see Mayweather early in this last round attempting to set up this finishing shot, by keeping Hatton slightly out of range and drawing him into the pocket.

Check hook after a side step

In boxing, a check hook is employed to prevent aggressive boxers from lunging in. There are two parts to the check hook. The first part consists of a regular hook. The second, trickier part involves the footwork. As the opponent lunges in, the boxer should throw the hook and pivot on his left foot and swing his right foot 180 degrees around. If executed correctly, the aggressive boxer will lunge in and sail harmlessly past his opponent like a bull missing a matador. This is rarely seen in professional boxing as it requires a great disparity in skill level to execute. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. demonstrated a picture perfect example of this punch against Ricky Hatton in their 2007 encounter. Ricky Hatton was caught with the check hook as he was lunging in; Hatton continued forward as he was knocked off balance and proceeded to ram his head into the ring post as Floyd Mayweather stepped out of harm's way. When interviewed, Mayweather stated that he was taught the check hook in the Michigan amateurs.



Mayweather/Hatton clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0bJJaqdHPg

[f.Channell]

I can't see the rush by.
More like a rush into it. Looks like he caught him, and as he was pulling back up he caught him again. I'm having trouble seeing the difference between a regular left hook and the footwork it seems your speaking of.
Great clip though, with all the boxing clips there should be a forum devoted to it.
I'm posted lots of boxing clips over the years, from Jack Johnson through Tyson with little response. So Bring it on love to see more.

Also this is a drill forum, so any good drill tips would be super too.
Always looking for those.
F.

[robb buckland]

".. this is a drill forum, so any good drill tips would be super too.....".

.
If the attacker/defender in either Dan Kumite or Kyu Kumite uses a fluid posture rather than a static one they can begin to work the rythmic head, body, footwork skills we see in the clip and I like your Idea about a "boxing" forum .

Subtle changes in age old drills can realize startling results !

Its a shame more persons dont see the value these vid clips can have for a Uechika !

[JOHN THURSTON]

What I saw on the the first hook was a sort of circular backward out of the corner retreat swinging the left foot back out and the right hand in in a hook.

The fight was over then.

I noticed that the fighters (probably very tired) were carry their hands vey low and this would surely leqave opening for a hook, which, perhaps because of the target area, drops folk in there tracks.

Tonight I am just going to work on basic footwork and let myself belf treatead as the
"moving dummy" (too true) with the thought of learning things better with the gloves on and passing back the lessons.

Presently I only have Theriealt's Full Contact Karate" and some boking books as guides, but we shall see ====.


I the meantime, just set up "punch bag" Holders and direct a series of punches. Make sure the "holder" has the pads right, or things get frustrating

[robb buckland]

Changes in the pad holders angle elevation and distance would go a long way to solving the traps set by static training.

[JOHN THURSTON]

This is true. But for practicing the basic punches from the American Martial Art one would want the bags at the proper height so that the student (in this case me, Renshi or no) can digest the structural details of the punch.

There is a rising body punch throughout the "Long form" where the right hand is at "ready thrust" level" but the arm is extended out so the all it take to release the strike is to "enable" the twisting power into the elbow, arm, hand as the right foot drives the hip counterwise. I will try and get a picture of this-but, if you do your Uechi "horizontal/diagonal" elbow strike your are enabling the same body architechture----except the arm would be extended out and thus is drivent upwards.

At the Camp I hope to discuss (connectioons" and the similarities between the two styles rather than the differences.

If you are doing a 'wrestlers' elbow smash" in your kata you will not be able to relate to this explanation.

Anyhoo----in the beginning-I think, for example: both parties in a left fighting stance, the attacker at high middle guard and a "bladed" stance

the left hand bag could be held so that a left cross would strike it cleanly, and a right cross would strike the right bag cleany;;;;then the "bag guy" could step back with either foot and the attacker would deliver a roundhouse to the bagged hands cleanly.

Variations are as endless as possible combinantions, and your choices would be as good as mine if not better, but, maybe keeping the number of combinations down, then gradually increasing them would keep both parties "happy" as Sensei ------ said it, "if the bags are not held right, you are in for a long day".

J

[robb buckland]

It would be a great opportunity for us to compare coaching styles....

[JOHN THURSTON]

I am scheduled to attend, but I would not presume to be able to instruct at your level in this area.

Nonetheless, although T'ai Chi on spends three (almost identical transitional) positions where one's weight is evenly balanced between the two feet, otherwise weight is constantly shifted/shiflted forwad and back, it still challenges the student to remaing solidly connected through the body to the ground t all times.

An additional not-the "hook" in TC drive up almost straigh from the forward foot to the pressure points under the chin, the Hojo Undo Uechi Hook drives to the points under and on the cheekbone, and the Boxing hook sorta the same. All different , butrelated.

J

[robb buckland]

"...I would not presume to be able to instruct at your level in this area"

John ....whats 'levels'; were comparing coaching styles like 2 cooks in a kitchen .......I'll bet youv'e got some 'delicious' favorite 'dishes'

[JOHN THURSTON]

Robb:

Let's hope that I do.

We are not now required to do Dan of Kyu Kumite. although "dan" kumite is a "Yakusoku" kumite in the sense that it is presently the advanced Kumite (prearranged) for the OKK as it presently stands.

I takes a great deal from "kyu" kumite and present some decent sparring techniques.

I have been thing about doing this Kumite in a "T" dachi instead of sanchin Dachi---but the student would like that.

The circuit training that Mike D. teaches every sunday is a good change of pace. It has PKA full contact, MMA and Mu Thay influences and we even do some TC excercises as 'cool downs".