Good talk on blocks

[Van Canna]

You NEVER want to extend your arms towards their face, because they will armlock you

.Joe

Guess any sanchin arm strikes are out when on the ground. It make sense...very easy to get arm locked.

[Van Canna]

Pomfret, Joe »

Joe Louzon, good points. You must have a terrific instructor. I think he taught you how to spell too !

If the readers, and contributors, take anything from these frantic postings, I hope it's these three things:

1. what to practice, or teach your students, as a basic mount escape.

2. There is no secret technique that will always keep you "rooted" to the ground, never to be toppled. That's absolute BS.

3. No matter who you are, or how long you've been training, keep learning and be open to ideas that are outside of the parameters of your personal or systemic style.

Just as I had suspected, you have heard unsubstantiated claims of abstract and unproven techniques that will make you invincible. I'm begging you to disregard this.

I have attempted to share techniques that many here have actually witnessed, and you can view for yourself on George's wonderful web-site. (And let's here it for George, if it wasn't for him we wouldn't be here now... typing away like mad men!)

let's also hear it for Van. He's one of the highest ranking Uechi people in the world, and brave enough to challenge it (Uechi Ryu) for the sake of the generations of practitioners that may/will rely on it well into the future.

Joe Pomfret

[Van Canna]

Hi Joe Lauzon,

Man that was a hell of a fight..Great job.

But even in looking at it in “film fashion” people will rationalize in their heads all kinds of “ways” mostly unproven, especially by the traditionalist who hasn’t been “mounted” ever, in his life.

Go get a ringside seat at a good NHB fight and experience the “horror” up close and personal.

Of course the best way is to get on the bottom and try to stop “the rain” with your great blocks and “pointy” little things…

before your body gives out from fatigue and glassy eyes..

Careful not to die of heart failure though…

Grappling work is real tough on the body and shocking to realize how little your super Uechi conditioning will allow you to withstand...

Try it and see..

Van

[Van Canna]

While honorable men were not supposed to ignore the shield during
their strikes, the Icelander Egil Skallagrimson ignored such niceties.

Thus,
his opponents were likely to lose their legs to his sword Dragvendil
("Leg-Biter"),

or be thrown to the ground, where they would be choked or
bitten to death."

I guess the Norsemen had not yet heard of "Sanchin rooting" __or WKC

[Van Canna]

JoeLauzon »

He seemed to be unaware of what you would do with his leg. My number one rule for fighting grapplers is don't try to kick them from the outside. Rule number 2 is don't give them a lead leg.

It is VERY possible to make it more difficult to be taken down, but its not as easy to work on as you might think.

The BEST way to work on it is with someone who knows exactly what they are doing for takedowns.

Now when I say takedowns, I mean wrestling takedowns. Wrestlers are NHB fighters use the same takedowns, thats why many NHB Fighters are wrestlers, they already have a great background in a few key points of the game.

And you really need someone who not only knows how to do some good takedowns, but can effectively do them competitively, someone with a good wrestling or NHB background.

Knowing how to do them, and being able to do them against someone who knows how to resist them and is trying 100%, who also has wrestling background is VERY important.

We have had some guys who know the mechanics of a few takedowns, but cant do them against someone even slightly resisting.

They may think their technique is working, and they know how, but they do not know how to effectively execute the takedown in anything more than a demonstration situation.

Joe Lauzon

[Van Canna]

Joe Lauzon>>

So once caught in a mounted position, I assume the main target is the head for a knockout. That was one brutal attack, Joe. You must have punched that guy in the head at least 25 plus times. How can you guys take that kind of attack. You can't condition the head like the rest of the body....look at Ali after years of being hit in the head.

Well I have a GREAT instructor, who lives in NHB by the term, "Dont Lose Position". So for me to stay on top in mount, yes the main target was my opponents head.

If it had been a BJJ match where I wasn't worried about keeping mount, I would've tried ending that fight within 15 seconds of getting mount with an armlock.

I chose the safer path of keeping mount. How can we take that kind of attack?

We dont. You cannot take that much punishment like that and expect to win. It doesnt happen.

He was trying to survive, rather than get me off of him.

Fatigue is not a big fan of surviving, it is a fan of stopping the punishment and abuse.

You cant try to weather the storm, you must get out of mount.

If I had needed to, I could've stayed there for another 10 minutes, and kept the rain coming down.

That guy was done after 2 minutes.

Likewise for the "supermen" of China - what do they have to gain by coming over here and fighting in NHB? Do you think they really would see any value in it from their cultural prospective?

I do not believe any of these "supermen" in China would stand a chance in an NHB fight.

There are shows in Las Vegas with chinese monks, and I have seen them on day time talk shows even.

Why do they do this? For exposure or whatever else, but something about being in the public eye appeals to them.

I believe they would be involved in Pride (Japanese counterpart to UFC) if they were not worried about tarnishing their reputation and fear of defeat.

I think actions speak louder than words, and when I see one of these "supermen" come out and start beating everyone, Ill eat those words. There is no such thing as a secret art.

Thanx Van and everyone else about my fight!

--Joe Lauzon

[Van Canna]

What Joe talks about is what I refer to as the Martial arts BS sometimes we have to put up with in class or on the forums by some 'teachers'...

I know people don't like it when I write these things, but that's exactly the kind of introspection it triggers to keep one alive.

[Van Canna]

Joe L.

I believe they would be involved in Pride (Japanese counterpart to UFC) if they were not worried about tarnishing their reputation and fear of defeat. I think actions speak louder than words, and when I see one of these "supermen" come out and start beating everyone, Ill eat those words. There is no such thing as a secret art.

Joe is relaying the frustrations common to combative sports fighters closest to reality on the street, as close as one can get without killing anyone although entering a NHB fight brings that possibility.

The traditionalist holds the NHB fighter in contempt by the "brow raising" implying that what he does in the ring, has nothing to do with self defense, and that , additionally, a "real traditional master" would "kill" an NHB fighter or a tough streetfighter, in a real fight, but claim that it is not possible to prove it because it is "too dangerous" __


Even though the traditionalist will admit that he can "scale down" his lethal techniques at will, he still cannot bring himself to prove it in the ring or anywhere else, including a reality scenario drill, where there is a good chance he will be embarassed.

This is what ticks those fighters off.

It would be very simple once and for all to see some of these supermen _ simply volunteer to show us how to take care of business, so as to convince us without equivocating, setting aside any 'cultural reservations' ...

[Van Canna]

Pomfret, Joe »

The first mount reversal we teach our beginners is to:

1. Keep him close
2. trap an arm and a leg on the same side (use your foot to trap his ankle).
3. buck your hips as high as you can
4. roll him towards the same side that you initially trapped. You can't just roll. In order to get his mass moving you have to buck and roll.

Joe P.

[Van Canna]

JoeLauzon »

Sometimes its hard to try and explain the necesity of the ground game to someone set in their ways, without making it seem like you have something to prove.

I dont really have anything that I need to prove, I just want to try and help people who think they already have a total Self Defense package.

Ive fought a few times, but I never want to just sit down one day and think that I have learned enough.

So long as I am moving, Ill continue to improve and take any part of any style that works for me, I just want others to adopt the same mentality of incorporating everything they can.

Just something else about being mounted:

You want to hold them tight temporarily because their punches aren't nearly as effective from such close range, but you don't want to use all of your energy trying to hold them tight to you.

You shouldnt be holding them tight for more than a few seconds before you buck and roll or get space to get away. It should be a quick sequence of pull and push.

You are either pulling them in tight to weather the punches before you push them away, or you hold them tight so you can push them to one side with your roll.

--Joe Lauzon

[Van Canna]

One of the ways to die

Attacker describes slow death of transgendered teen
By Michelle Locke, Associated Press

NEWARK, Calif. -- Eddie ''Gwen'' Araujo died slowly.

It began, according to testimony from one of her attackers, with shouts -- ''Are you a man or a woman?'' -- and progressed to clumsy grabs at her genitals to get the answer: Araujo, 17, was born male but lived as a girl.

What followed for about three hours was a beating, strangulation, and then two hits to the head with a shovel, though Araujo may already have been dead, said defendant Jaron Nabors.

That first night, Nabors said he was struck by the thought that Araujo might be male, but he along with everyone else laughed off the suggestion.

But Merel and Magidson's suspicions grew.
Chaos broke out in the early morning hours of Oct. 4 after Araujo's biological identity was revealed.

Araujo begged for mercy, crying: ''No, please don't. I have a family,'' but was punched and hit in the head with a skillet, Nabors said.


He said he
and Cazares left for 20 minutes to get shovels and when they returned Araujo was sitting on the couch, her face covered in blood. Later, he said, her bound body was carried into the garage.


Nabors said Merel and Magidson did most of the beating but he prevented Araujo from leaving the house.

He said he saw Magidson pulling a rope toward Araujo's neck, and he said Cazares hit Araujo twice in the head with a shovel after she had been tied up and strangled.

The four then drove Araujo's body 150 miles east to the Sierra foothills, where they buried her in a shallow grave, Nabors said.

Back home, the four agreed to tell no one, but Nabors called a friend and told him about the events of the night.

Eventually, the story reached police, who contacted Nabors. In mid-October, police said, Nabors led them to Araujo's body.

One of the defendants, Merel, told the San Jose Mercury News in December that he did not kill Araujo, but he said he had gotten angry when he learned Araujo was biologically male.

Gregory Herek, a University of California, Davis, psychology professor,
said some young men, are ''intensely worried about making sure that everyone knows they are masculine and that they are heterosexual, and if an event happens that threatens to make them appear otherwise, they react to that with great emotion.''

Listening to testimony about the long night of Araujo's death has been hard for her family, said David Guerrero, Araujo's uncle.

''It seems when you've heard the worst,'' he said, ''you hear more.''

[Van Canna]

CANDANeh »

Darren Laur

Condition the brain to continue on with goal in these types of environments should ones senses be deprived for whatever reason.

I like that statement.
Very good ideas as training under the peaceful environment of the dojo doesn`t address what occurs outside those walls.

I for example spend little time in loud bars with the confusion produced by the unusual lighting and sounds, therefore an attacking lounge lizard would have an advantage as he would be in his element.

Fire fighters train in smoke houses for good reason and there is no reason serious MA shouldn`t adopt some sort of training methods that Darren mentioned or devise their own ( use due diligence)

One we did in past (long ago) was darkening the room and distracting a person with a flashlight beam in the eyes as he performed.

Another was attaching our long belts to key areas (arms , legs and waist) which placed the restrained student in the hub as he defended himself, the students at the other end of the belt would tug slightly as an unrestrained attacker constantly pressured attacks.

The "wheel" of people allowed him freedom to move around but kept him as the hub.

Frustration and exhaustion came quickly, esp. if those handling the "lines" worked well enough together to allow enough freedom to barely fail, and openings for the attacker to make his way in.


CANDANeh

[Van Canna]

Hard to make the transition from "all is in sanchin" invincibility to a feeling of helplessness, where you find yourself suddenly disillusioned at finding your "Uechi dream" dissolved.

Look at what Joe Pomfret has to go through to convince the "rooted" people that they will go down in a street fight as easy as the next guy.

[Van Canna]

RA Miller »

Darren-

Our scenarios usually have a danger zone indicating a drop off or high traffic street; maybe a body lying in the area (who may have a weapon- gun to wine bottle); usually a pile of pads to indicate a fire hydrant or rubble and "the brick".

One handy foam brick. Time and a gain, something as simple as a brick changes everything when the fight goes to the ground.

We do full blindfold and full blindfold + arm tied in the belt.

We sometimes allow a third or fourth bystander to "help".

We usually don't allow the "good guy" to attack until he could legally justify it, and we do allow a verbal de-escalation of the interview so that they learn some of those techniques too.

Rory

[Van Canna]

We all must accept the fact that Physical skills, developed in some style, are but a small component of street violence, the true arena for self-defense.

Those skills will be helpful in self protection, but no guarantees of success.

Problem is that some of us really are convinced that those skills are all we need to survive any attack. The black belt champion in the stairwell thought so...and got his throat cut by the gangbanger for his 'confidence'_

Just think of what the average Uechi/any MA student works on in the dojo, any dojo, anywhere. Surely some develop into very strong, conditioned practitioners, but do you think they are really “skilled” in surviving street violence?

Ask students in class to define street violence and give you a couple of examples of it...and how they would 'take care' of the problem...ask them what opponent they envision...what situation...and see for your self.

Deep Sea wrote

A thought that has been nagging me for a while, Van, is for you to get a couple of ex-con street fighters to conduct a seminar at summer camp.

That's a thought as those individuals would create a 'shitting your pants' response action to the average practitioner.