Speed II - Citizen Revolt

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:02 pm

Ben started another thread (Need for Speed...) which talked about a new law that came into effect in Virginia on July 1.

New Virginia law starts today

Basically the law is a hidden tax. Whether Democrat or Republican, Virginians on average are fiscal conservatives. They want lower taxes and less government.

Well... The Virginia General Assembly thought they could raise revenue by imposing a tax on top of fines for traffic violations. These additional fees were on the order of one to three thousand dollars for violations ranging from minor speeding to DUI. The funny thing about the bill is that these fees likely will not be imposed on out-of-state drivers due to "constitutional issues." So in essence it's an arbitrary and inequitably applied tax.

Well, it appears that the citizens of Virginia are fighting back.

From NBC12 News

An online petition to repeal a new law that imposes harsh penalties for certain traffic violations is getting a lot of support. It's the second most popular link on the web site www.petitiononline.com.

When we first checked the site this morning, about 15 hundred people had signed the petition. By five o'clock there were more than seven thousand signatures.

Bryan Ault started the petition on Friday.

"The new fees are outrageous, and they're not fairly applied, and it's too much of a burden to citizens of Virginia if they get caught for relatively minor traffic infractions,” he said.

The new fees include an additional $1,050 fine for speeders.

(c) 2007. WWBT, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Story Created: Jul 11, 2007 at 6:54 PM EDT

Story Updated: Jul 12, 2007 at 8:06 AM EDT

A video of the gentleman who started the petition can be found here.

Online petition to repeal traffic law gets support

I checked just now. Today this is the NUMBER ONE most active petition on the website.

Petitiononline.com

By all means, Virginians, get on and sign!

I am so proud of the citizens of our state for not taking this. Our ancestors who participated in an old tea party would have been proud.

- Bill

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:11 pm

I agree. It's disgusting that people should be punished for breaking laws which endanger others.

It cracks me up that people whine about speed traps. Er, the law is widely known, people. If you break it, what exactly do you expect to happen? The police station bakes you cookies?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:28 pm

To: Elected Officials in the Commonwealth of Virginia
To: Elected Officials in the Commonwealth of Virginia

We, the citizens of Virginia, are opposed to the outrageous and unjust traffic fines imposed as "civil remedial fees" in House Bill 3202 for the following reasons:

1. The fines inflict a punishment on drivers that is disproportionate to the degree of the offense they committed.
2. The fines are mandatory, and judges are given no discretion in sentencing.
3. The language of the bill states that the purpose is to "generate revenue" and hence the fines have nothing to do with traffic safety.
4. The bill's sponsor, Del. David Albo (R- 42nd District) is a partner in a law firm that specializes in traffic court cases and stands to benefit personally from this legislation. This type of conflict of interest should not be tolerated.
5. The fines in the bill apply ONLY to Virginia residents, hence unfairly creating different penalties for the same traffic offense based solely on residency.
6. In order to generate additional revenue, points for driving offenses remain on the offender's license for up to 11 years. This will unnecessarily increase the offender's insurance rates for a time frame that is incongruent with the degree of the offense.

We, the undersigned, demand the immediate repeal of these "civil remedial fees." We will not vote for any state Delegate or State Senator who voted for this bill, or for any Delegate or Senator who does not take action to repeal the sections of House Bill 3202 that inflict these exorbitant and unjust penalties.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:33 pm

I am signature 21,088. Sixteen signatures came in during the minute that I was checking my spelling.

Zoom zoom!

- Bill

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:41 pm

Let's repeat this point. It is soooo special.

The bill's sponsor, Del. David Albo (R- 42nd District) is a partner in a law firm that specializes in traffic court cases and stands to benefit personally from this legislation. This type of conflict of interest should not be tolerated.

NOW do you get it??? If it wasn't so criminal, it would be hysterically funny.

Should we be surprised?

Someone wrote:
the law is widely known, people. If you break it, what exactly do you expect to happen?

Er... The bill's sponsor is going to get stinkin' rich???

And should I be surprised that someone who doesn't live here - and so won't be subject to thousands of dollars in fines if he commits a minor traffic infraction in my state - doesn't care?

Today I am very proud to be a Virginian.

- Bill

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:47 pm

I wrote in the other thread I would support a MA law that revokes your license for failing to signal. I'd be fine with one that does the same for speeding more than about 7 or 10MPH over the limit. Bring it on; I don't drive like a teenager.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:58 pm

Well if you think that is just, why not run for the MA General Assembly? Put your platform to the test. Let the citizens decide.

You could also get a law degree, and then work on becoming a judge. Then you could test your ideas in the real world of crime and punishment. Will the citizens be satisfied that the punishment fits "the crime?"

And what would be your punishment for something serious like a violent crime?

And what would you do, BTW, with the tens of thousands (or much more) who lose their jobs and can't generate tax revenue because they can't work w/o a driver's license? How would you handle the subsequent drain on state welfare and Medicaid?

Do you think the punishment would be an effective behavior modification tool?

Lots to ponder about here. If you were in charge, could you take your own ideas seriously? Would the citizens in your democracy do the same?

- Bill

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:19 pm

Well obviously the whole me becoming a judge thing is ridiculous. I have another career.

I think most citizens would be satisfied; we'll see if you're band of speeders manages to repeal the laws in VA. Most people want everyone else to drive sanely. People that can't afford this should have bloody well thought of that before they put everyone else at risk. If you can't pay the fine immedietly, it seems reasonable your state has some sort of payment plan. I really don't know. It doesn't affect me. I wouldn't want to pay a 'normal' ticket.

I absolutely think it will be an effective way to curtail speeding/not signaling etc. If your online petition doesn't stop this, are you going to pay thousands of dollars everytime you get caught just because you like to go fast? I should hope not.

The bit about punishments for violent crimes: I don't really see how it relates. I'm a big proponent of the death penalty, and to be honest, torture.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:38 pm

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:12 pm

John Whitehead, president of the Charlottesville-based Rutherford Institute, has warned General Assembly leaders that legal action looms if the legislature doesn't back off abusive driver fees, which he calls discriminatory and unreasonable.

In a three-page letter to legislative leaders, Whitehead said his civil liberties organization “has been contacted by numerous Virginia residents who have expressed outrage over the civil remedial fees imposed upon Virginia drivers by the transportation legislation enacted during the recent General Assembly session.”

***

“We join with these residents and many others in decrying the unfairness of the fees mandated by [the new law] and in demanding that action be taken, either by the courts or the General Assembly, to stop imposition of these fees,” Whitehead wrote in the letter sent Wednesday to eight legislators as well as Gov. Timothy M. Kaine and Lt. Gov. William T. Bolling.

“Why penalize me because I’m a Virginian?” Whitehead said in an interview today. “We’ve had 15 or 16 calls” from Virginians concerned about the fees plus other calls from lawyers willing to join a lawsuit to stop them, he said.

“If we sue, it would be in federal court,” Whitehead said. “I think the equal protection issue is a good one.”

In his letter to legislators, he said the fees are “ripe for legal challenge” and should be “eliminated because they do not bear any real relationship to the costs incurred by the commonwealth as a result of the traffic offenses that trigger the fees.”

A judge would have no discretion about applying the fees to a guilty party regardless of the circumstances, Whitehead said.

“Moreover, the fact that only Virginia drivers are penalized with these remedial fees is patently unfair and offensive to the fundamental principle embodied in the state and federal constitutions that all persons are to be treated equally under the law,” he said.

***

- Daily Progress

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:11 pm

Some of the comments on the petition are priceless. I'm going to include a few here and there.

Have you driven I-81 since July 1? Count the number of out of state vehicles and tractor trailers that pass you by exceding the speed limit by 10-20 miles per hour or more. The numbers will surprise you! Why should we as Virginians be forced to pay for faster and better hiways for others to drive wrecklessly without fear of finanial retribution? After all, one Virginian going 8 miles over the limit is worth 10 times more than an "out -of -state" driver doing 100! What's next, acessing fines according to the race, sex, or age of the offender?

Whoever is responsible for bringing this policy change about is totally out of touch with reality and do not know how the middle and lower income classes live

A policeman with a loaded gun collecting taxes... Totally insane. Joe Stalin would have loved it !!

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

This law was designed by a lawyer to benefit lawyers.

As A former Police Officer, this is really ludicrous.....and very definitely a conflict of interest by the author..... Oh I have written several thousand tickets without the use of RADAR, didn't sit on the road hiding while doing it, and didn't have to have the legislature write a law preventing possession of the units....Find another way of raising money. Otherwise you will be looking for a new job next election......

I just had a ticket for the first time in 11 years, my second one of all time...I travel 40k miles a year for my job....to think I could pay thousands of dollars in fines, when an idiot from South Carolina flies by me doing 90 mph on I81 and he'll possibly been give a fine that he'll likely not pay, it is totally discrimanatory. if they want to fill the coffers to pay for new roads, keep people ON the roads - and put up a few tolls. let the transient motorist pay for what they are using as well!

If an arresting officer sees two cars suspicious of a traffic violation and one is a Virginia resident and the other is out of state, will he or she stop the Virginia resident because of potential revenue ?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:46 pm

Fees = vehicle pursuits and needless death on the highways! How many kids will stop for a $2000.00 ticket? Thanks for putting my life and the lives of thousands of Virginians at risk!!!

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:30 am

I am self employeed. I pay taxes through the nose as it is. I watch illegal immigrants assemble and protest in my streets and nothing and you want to tax me 2500.00 for 15 over.

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:54 am

These are the stupidest complaints anyone has ever had. Seriously, VEHICLES PURSUITS?? If you don't want charged, obey the law!