At camp Rory, Kami and I had more than a few interesting discussions. One of them had to do with personality types. It was Rick who started a thread on Principles vs. Techniques, and it led to a long debate between him and Halford. But TSDGuy and I saw something a bit more profound while watching the struggle. From afar, it may be that we are viewing two different ways that humans can view and interact with the world, with neither being more valid.
Rory's educational background is in psychology. After reading the discussion between TSDguy and myself, he and Kami chose to take the Meyers-Briggs personality test. His results explained a lot to him about the way he approaches life, and it explained to him why he and Kami were good personality fits.
The official site for the MTBI personality test is here.
Meyers-Briggs
I have a lot of problem getting that website to respond. Here's a better one.
The Personality Page
It's very important to understand personality traits and differences. Different people use different methods to arrive at the same destination. One method isn't necessarily better than the other if both can get to a well-defined end. On the other hand, unique personality types may be best suited for unique roles in our society. For example, a big picture person like myself is always in need of a detail person like Rich Castanet (and vice versa) to achieve great ends. When I was in Charlottesville, that detail person was Andy Johnson. We were always better partnered together rather than working separately, in much the same way that Lennon and McCartney wrote better music together rather than by themselves.
I would like to propose that as many people as possible take the Meyers-Briggs personality assessment, and post it online. Ideally I'd like to see both Rick Wilson and Halford do that, and let us look at their personality types. I believe it would be very revealing. But let's not limit it just to their discussion.
- Bill
Personality Types
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Bill Glasheen
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Personality Types
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill Glasheen
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Before I post my results, I'd like to point out something contrary to what Halford seems always to want to propose. That is, the world is NOT binary.
He once referred to the brain as being an organ that functions on a binary level. We either experience fear or joy, pleasure or pain, etc., etc. I loved 2Green's response to this.
There is fear, and there is Fear, there is FEAR, and there is piss-in-your-pants, narrow-visioned, time warping, sound altering, brain-numbing FEAR. You don't really understand how fear and martial technique relate until you study the continuum.
That being said...
It's easy to start with this or that. I will give my 4-dimension "score" in binary format. But a true assessment gives the results on a scale from fully one extreme to fully another. Only two of my four dimensions are strong (you may try to guess which...
). The rest are close to the middle.
My personality type is ENTP. Here is an assessment of that personality type.
It's downright scary... 
Here's more detail.
The Visionary
Your move, folks!
- Bill
He once referred to the brain as being an organ that functions on a binary level. We either experience fear or joy, pleasure or pain, etc., etc. I loved 2Green's response to this.
The brain is NOT a binary organ. Right down to the fundamental working unit (the neuron), it operates via the technique of frequency modulation. A neuron communicates levels of response by the frequency at which it fires. Ten hertz (pulses per second) and twenty hertz communicate different things. Ultimately an individual's brain functions as a result of the complexity of the interconnections between the many neurons. Intelligence and/or experience then is recorded via the nature of synaptic connections.whenever you hear a person say "you know there are TWO kinds of people in this world..." then you are confronting binary thinking. It's not pretty.
There is fear, and there is Fear, there is FEAR, and there is piss-in-your-pants, narrow-visioned, time warping, sound altering, brain-numbing FEAR. You don't really understand how fear and martial technique relate until you study the continuum.
That being said...
It's easy to start with this or that. I will give my 4-dimension "score" in binary format. But a true assessment gives the results on a scale from fully one extreme to fully another. Only two of my four dimensions are strong (you may try to guess which...
). The rest are close to the middle.My personality type is ENTP. Here is an assessment of that personality type.
Does that nail me or what?ENTP
Creative, resourceful, and intellectually quick. Good at a broad range of things. Enjoy debating issues, and may be into "one-up-manship". They get very excited about new ideas and projects, but may neglect the more routine aspects of life. Generally outspoken and assertive. They enjoy people and are stimulating company. Excellent ability to understand concepts and apply logic to find solutions.
It's downright scary... Here's more detail.
The Visionary
Your move, folks!
- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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maxwell ainley
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Bill Glasheen
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Exactly, Max.
Often folks who don't appreciate differences among people are quick to judge others as seeing things incorrectly. Sometimes that's not the case at all. Sometimes it's just a difference of perspective.
Furthermore if you are CEO of a company, or even head of a dojo, you don't want a bunch of clones of yourself running the place and following your direction. That would be a complete disaster. Rather the good leader learns to appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of individuals, and then construct a team that is greater than the sum of the parts. As a teacher, one needs to apprecate that individuals need unique approaches to learning in the dojo. And collectively a group of individuals are better at creating the "critical mass" learning environment than any one individual possibly can. I always did well having a few different personality types other than my own in the dojo (a detail person, a "people" person, some "doers", etc.). I would be delighted to have a fine craftsman such as Max in my dojo. Imagine the incredible perspective he would add to my group!
This is the personality type of TSDguy. He is similar to my own exept for the Introversion vs. Extroversion scale. Note the similarities and differences in the description of the two personality types.
The Thinker
- Bill
Often folks who don't appreciate differences among people are quick to judge others as seeing things incorrectly. Sometimes that's not the case at all. Sometimes it's just a difference of perspective.
Furthermore if you are CEO of a company, or even head of a dojo, you don't want a bunch of clones of yourself running the place and following your direction. That would be a complete disaster. Rather the good leader learns to appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of individuals, and then construct a team that is greater than the sum of the parts. As a teacher, one needs to apprecate that individuals need unique approaches to learning in the dojo. And collectively a group of individuals are better at creating the "critical mass" learning environment than any one individual possibly can. I always did well having a few different personality types other than my own in the dojo (a detail person, a "people" person, some "doers", etc.). I would be delighted to have a fine craftsman such as Max in my dojo. Imagine the incredible perspective he would add to my group!
This is the personality type of TSDguy. He is similar to my own exept for the Introversion vs. Extroversion scale. Note the similarities and differences in the description of the two personality types.
And here is the detail.INTP
Logical, original, creative thinkers. Can become very excited about theories and ideas. Exceptionally capable and driven to turn theories into clear understandings. Highly value knowledge, competence and logic. Quiet and reserved, hard to get to know well. Individualistic, having no interest in leading or following others.
The Thinker
- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jorvik
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Bill Glasheen
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maxwell ainley
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Thanks Bill,
I have had a look at one personalty type so far ,I will read some more tomorrow .
As with our study ,some types cling to shallow study ,while other type go for depth .
I notice in life that some people are introvert yet are shallow ,others are extravert and shallow ,I say this from a character point of view .
My own life appears to have ; been more extraverted very young ,a very good mixer etc ,upon taking up uechi-ryu ,I gradually swung more introverted .introverted shallow ]at the time ,this would change to[ introverted a bit of depth ] plus only a very few wanted uechi [local] so these factors placed me into the introverted type of world ,that suited my personality ,yet socially I could still mix .
As I look back I see I have undergone great change .
max.
I have had a look at one personalty type so far ,I will read some more tomorrow .
As with our study ,some types cling to shallow study ,while other type go for depth .
I notice in life that some people are introvert yet are shallow ,others are extravert and shallow ,I say this from a character point of view .
My own life appears to have ; been more extraverted very young ,a very good mixer etc ,upon taking up uechi-ryu ,I gradually swung more introverted .introverted shallow ]at the time ,this would change to[ introverted a bit of depth ] plus only a very few wanted uechi [local] so these factors placed me into the introverted type of world ,that suited my personality ,yet socially I could still mix .
As I look back I see I have undergone great change .
max.
max ainley
That's an interesting comment Max. In most personality tests I come up as an "observer". The aloof, observing type. Not shy, just aloof.
But I have definitely found that since training Uechi, for almost six years now, I have a new-found ability to lock eyes unwaveringly with characters who would have previously stared me down.
It's as if I carry an inner secret which allows me to CONVEY DOMINANCE toward parties who otherwise might be inclined to try an aggressive move, but now they won't.
Here's an example.
Recently, our dressing room was invaded by joint-rolling acquaintences; but there is a strict no-smoking (anything) policy throughout the night club. WE get blamed for infractions in the dressing room.
I told this former band-mate:"you can't smoke that in here."
Being drunk and stoned he replied "what, are you scared of them, I don't care about ...blah, blah..."
He elbowed the drywall in a show of aggression (no serious holes, no technique, obviously!), but this guy is big, and strong.
I locked eyes and explained that he can NOT light up here; it's MY call not his, and my vision included his very drunk friend off to my right.
Well, he backed down and took his joint elsewhere; I shook his hand, slapped his back, laughed it off and felt very relieved.
I could NEVER have done that a few years a go; simply did not have the mental equipment or the physical *true* confidence to carry it off.
So as to your point, Max, I too have undergone great change although I don't always recognize it "day-to-day".
The concept of locking eyes in training is something which should be emphasized even more, I think.
NM
But I have definitely found that since training Uechi, for almost six years now, I have a new-found ability to lock eyes unwaveringly with characters who would have previously stared me down.
It's as if I carry an inner secret which allows me to CONVEY DOMINANCE toward parties who otherwise might be inclined to try an aggressive move, but now they won't.
Here's an example.
Recently, our dressing room was invaded by joint-rolling acquaintences; but there is a strict no-smoking (anything) policy throughout the night club. WE get blamed for infractions in the dressing room.
I told this former band-mate:"you can't smoke that in here."
Being drunk and stoned he replied "what, are you scared of them, I don't care about ...blah, blah..."
He elbowed the drywall in a show of aggression (no serious holes, no technique, obviously!), but this guy is big, and strong.
I locked eyes and explained that he can NOT light up here; it's MY call not his, and my vision included his very drunk friend off to my right.
Well, he backed down and took his joint elsewhere; I shook his hand, slapped his back, laughed it off and felt very relieved.
I could NEVER have done that a few years a go; simply did not have the mental equipment or the physical *true* confidence to carry it off.
So as to your point, Max, I too have undergone great change although I don't always recognize it "day-to-day".
The concept of locking eyes in training is something which should be emphasized even more, I think.
NM
When in doubt, use the library! A good friend of mine gave us a copy of Please Understand Me by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates. I believe it will be in print in several languages and readily available. Also I believe that Rory, if he sees this thread, has a website marked on his favorites that doesn't charge for the test and maybe he can post it here.
Rory and I are both fairly rare personality types, so in the couples section the researchers had to admit that they had a very small sample to draw from but that theoretically we would be an ideal couple. We've been together for 18 years. Think they might be right?
I'm an ENFJ (Pedagogue). Keirsey says of ENFJs (I'm only posting a small part of the description here because it's long):
Found in only about 5 percent of the general population, ENFJs place people as being of highest importance and priority. As a result, ENFJs may find themselves feeling responsible for the feelings of others to an extent which places a burden on the relationship. An ENFJ communicates caring, concern, and a willingness to become involved. Thus people turn to ENFJs for nurture and support, which an ENFJ is usually able to deliver. At times, however, these kinds of demands can overwhelm ENFJs, who find at this point that they lack the skill to dissociate. ENFJs do no seem able to turn away from these demands even they become unbearable ...
This is why I need Rory. Heh. He keeps me sane and will draw lines for me and reminds me not to feel guilty if I have to cut ties with someone who becomes too demanding or abuses my desire to be oh so helpful.
My temperament type (NF) is Apollonian. Gee, so fancy a name! Apollonians tend to search for the Self and can become so complex (or silly) in thought process that it sounds like nonsense to others at worst and confusing at best. We connect with Hamlet very deeply when he declares, "to be or not to be ..." Keirsey states that "Self realization for the NF means to have integrity, that is, unity. There must be no facade, no mask, no pretense, no sham, no playing of roles. To have integrity is to be genuine, to communicate authentically, to be in harmony with the inner experiences of self." Apparently a lot of us are writers, and we also heavily populate the professions of psychiatry, clinical and counseling psychology, the ministry, and teaching.
I used to be more introverted. That change to extroversion has changed a lot of my personality, as my husband can vouch. When I read the description for INFJ I see some connections, but that's really not me anymore. It's fascinating how a change in one aspect of your personality can alter your outlook, potential, interests, everything. And I'm going to stop now before I start on a long quest for Self.
Kami
Rory and I are both fairly rare personality types, so in the couples section the researchers had to admit that they had a very small sample to draw from but that theoretically we would be an ideal couple. We've been together for 18 years. Think they might be right?
I'm an ENFJ (Pedagogue). Keirsey says of ENFJs (I'm only posting a small part of the description here because it's long):
Found in only about 5 percent of the general population, ENFJs place people as being of highest importance and priority. As a result, ENFJs may find themselves feeling responsible for the feelings of others to an extent which places a burden on the relationship. An ENFJ communicates caring, concern, and a willingness to become involved. Thus people turn to ENFJs for nurture and support, which an ENFJ is usually able to deliver. At times, however, these kinds of demands can overwhelm ENFJs, who find at this point that they lack the skill to dissociate. ENFJs do no seem able to turn away from these demands even they become unbearable ...
This is why I need Rory. Heh. He keeps me sane and will draw lines for me and reminds me not to feel guilty if I have to cut ties with someone who becomes too demanding or abuses my desire to be oh so helpful.
My temperament type (NF) is Apollonian. Gee, so fancy a name! Apollonians tend to search for the Self and can become so complex (or silly) in thought process that it sounds like nonsense to others at worst and confusing at best. We connect with Hamlet very deeply when he declares, "to be or not to be ..." Keirsey states that "Self realization for the NF means to have integrity, that is, unity. There must be no facade, no mask, no pretense, no sham, no playing of roles. To have integrity is to be genuine, to communicate authentically, to be in harmony with the inner experiences of self." Apparently a lot of us are writers, and we also heavily populate the professions of psychiatry, clinical and counseling psychology, the ministry, and teaching.
I used to be more introverted. That change to extroversion has changed a lot of my personality, as my husband can vouch. When I read the description for INFJ I see some connections, but that's really not me anymore. It's fascinating how a change in one aspect of your personality can alter your outlook, potential, interests, everything. And I'm going to stop now before I start on a long quest for Self.
Kami
One seed, many lives.
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Bill Glasheen
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Thanks, Kami. This makes perfect sense from what I know of you.
I have indeed heard that people can change personality types through life - sometimes through external influence. Usually though such "changes" come from someone being in the middle of the continuum where a slight shift in how one responds to questions on a particular day will flip someone from one side of the dichotomy to the other. This is why it's important to see each of the 4 scores on a continuous scale to see the degree of polarization for that paticular metric. In your case, you are likely one of those people who is neither strongly introverted nor extroverted. I can see that...
Just for the sake of consistency, I'm going to draw from the same website as I did for others so that there can be a basis of comparison.
Kami's personality type:
The Giver
Sounds like Rory's a very lucky man, Kami. But given the way I saw him treat you, I see he knows that.
By the way, any way you can tell me Rory's type? I'm very curious about that.
- Bill
I have indeed heard that people can change personality types through life - sometimes through external influence. Usually though such "changes" come from someone being in the middle of the continuum where a slight shift in how one responds to questions on a particular day will flip someone from one side of the dichotomy to the other. This is why it's important to see each of the 4 scores on a continuous scale to see the degree of polarization for that paticular metric. In your case, you are likely one of those people who is neither strongly introverted nor extroverted. I can see that...
Just for the sake of consistency, I'm going to draw from the same website as I did for others so that there can be a basis of comparison.
Kami's personality type:
And here is the detail.ENFJ
Popular and sensitive, with outstanding people skills. Externally focused, with real concern for how others think and feel. Usually dislike being alone. They see everything from the human angle, and dislike impersonal analysis. Very effective at managing people issues, and leading group discussions. Interested in serving others, and probably place the needs of others over their own needs.
The Giver
Sounds like Rory's a very lucky man, Kami. But given the way I saw him treat you, I see he knows that.
By the way, any way you can tell me Rory's type? I'm very curious about that.
- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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benzocaine
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This is very interesting.
Here is a link to a bunch of free tests http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html
According to the test this is me.... http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html
Here is a link to a bunch of free tests http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html
According to the test this is me.... http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html
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Bill Glasheen
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Thanks so much, Ben!
Just to keep with the format, I will enhance Ben's post.
The Idealist
From what I know of you, Ben, this makes sense.
- Bill
Just to keep with the format, I will enhance Ben's post.
And the detail...INFP
Quiet, reflective, and idealistic. Interested in serving humanity. Well-developed value system, which they strive to live in accordance with. Extremely loyal. Adaptable and laid-back unless a strongly-held value is threatened. Usually talented writers. Mentally quick, and able to see possibilities. Interested in understanding and helping people.
The Idealist
From what I know of you, Ben, this makes sense.
- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RACastanet
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Bill Glasheen
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This was one I was waiting for...
This is Rich...
The Guardian
I especially like the part in your description, Rich, that suggests that you could possibly become overly detail-oriented. Au contraire! My visionary, big-picture view matched with your concrete, highly organized, highly detail-oriented approach make a perfect match. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier.
I've got to check out Andy Johnson. I'll bet he's also an ESTJ. You two are very similar.
Just for the record... When I taught Uechi at U.Va., I always had a written test every semester. I intentionally made it so difficult that nobody could get 100% on it. Well guess what? Rich was the first (and only) person to score a perfect score on one of those tests (out of several thousand who took one). It speaks to his steel-trap mind.
- Bill
This is Rich...
And the detail...ESTJ
Practical, traditional, and organized. Likely to be athletic. Not interested in theory or abstraction unless they see the practical application. Have clear visions of the way things should be. Loyal and hard-working. Like to be in charge. Exceptionally capable in organizing and running activities. "Good citizens" who value security and peaceful living.
The Guardian
I especially like the part in your description, Rich, that suggests that you could possibly become overly detail-oriented. Au contraire! My visionary, big-picture view matched with your concrete, highly organized, highly detail-oriented approach make a perfect match. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier.
I've got to check out Andy Johnson. I'll bet he's also an ESTJ. You two are very similar.
Just for the record... When I taught Uechi at U.Va., I always had a written test every semester. I intentionally made it so difficult that nobody could get 100% on it. Well guess what? Rich was the first (and only) person to score a perfect score on one of those tests (out of several thousand who took one). It speaks to his steel-trap mind.
- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
