Uechi Symbolism

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Dana Sheets
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Uechi Symbolism

Post by Dana Sheets »

So I've got a question about commas.

In the Uechi Family crest the three commas in the background go to the left.
Image

In GEM's old patches and the current Eastern Art's logo - the commas go the right
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the Shohei folks chose to swing to the right as well
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GEM et al - is there a reason the US logo for Uechi circled clockwise while the family logo circles counter-clockwise?
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

Hello Dana.

The left swirling commas pattern is called hidari gomon (Literally 'left torture', and might have something to do with the story of tossing three rebels in a pot of boiling water.), and is the symbol for the kingdom of the ryu kyu islands - Okinawa.

The right swirl is a Japanese symbol called mitsu domae (might mean three alliances).

That is as good as my Japanese/hogan gets.

Rich
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Bill Glasheen
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Dana Sheets
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Post by Dana Sheets »

I've been reading online about the difference between the two symbols. Our own school's patch rotates to the right and sits on an octagon - like most of the Uechi and other Te symbols out there. I was just curious of there was a conscious choice made to differentiate from the Uechi family symbol to make a Uechi-ryu symbol. Both look nice IMHO.
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

That's a very good question, Dana.

If you read what's out there (and include Rich's research), it appears there are a number of facts we can draw from this:

1) The hidari gomon (hidari specifically meaning left) is reserved as a symbol of Okinawa. By definition, it rotates counterclockwise. The meaning is buried in oral history and folklore.

2) The mitsu tomoe (roughly translates as triple swirl) is of Shinto and/or Buddhist origin, and represents their own trinity view of the world (philosophical and/or religious). This symbol exists along with double (yin/yang) and even quadruple swirls. There appears to be ambivalence as to the direction it turns.

I like you Dana would like to know why various authors of the modern symbols chose the directions they did, and the reason for the choosing of this symbol in the first place.

* Was it meant to pay respects to Okinawa and Okinawan culture?

* Was the choice of a clockwise symbol in some cases intentional or out of ambivalence? And if the former, then why?

* Was the primary motive of the symbol choice to reflect a trinity mindset?

Where's your view on this, George?

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THE TRIFOIL IS AN ANCIENT SYMBOL!

Post by HALFORD E. JONES »

:D Take a look at the flag of the Isle of Man to see the three legs, if I am not mistaken. Anyway, the symbol is a modified SWASTIKA, which comes out of Tibet in various forms, and represents the three basic forces of the universe, sometimes called, gunas in Hinduism. The fact that left-had followers as opposed to right hand followers has much esoteric/occult meaning to those who take up one path over the other. Turning left has many meanings and is a 'winding down or unwinding' while going right is the opposite. In certain sufi movments,circles they move to the left, perhaps to represent the movements of the planets? :wink:
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IT'S AN OPTICAL ILLUSION.

Post by HALFORD E. JONES »

:D Have you seen those black and white drawings that test perception, like the faces,etc. well the commas,so called, actually are the white part and the black part represents the three parts or the 'wheel'. If you concentrate on the white portion then you see one thing, but if you concentrate on the black portion, by juggling your eyes a bit, you will see the design I am talking about. :wink:
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Post by 2Green »

What Halford refers to are called "field/ground" drawings.
I too puzzled about the different comma diagrams, and looked for the field/ground patterns.
I came to the following conclusion:

The Commas represent the three positive aspects of humanity: mind, body, spirit, all rotating in the same direction to accomplish the same positive effects.
The three "dark daggers" created in the patterns, rotating opposite the commas represent the negative aspects of mind, body, spirit, rotating counter-wise in the diagram.
Wanna hold hands and chew lotus leaves while staring at the diagram?

Seriously though, I can see a value in this concept, which of course, I entirely imagined. Completely straight. Honest.

NM
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Halford

You're getting your symbols mixed up a bit.

What Dana is talking about is either the hidari gomon, or the mitsu tomoe.

The swastikas are another symbol altogether - the Omote Manji (right swirling) or Ura Manji (left swirling). Hitler took one of these two (I forget which) for his symbol of The Third Reich.

The symbol on the flag of the Isle of Man might be thought of as a type of mitsu tomoe. But the symbol is of European (Celtic? Norse?) origin, and is called a triskelion.

Image
The three legs symbol seems to have been adopted in the Thirteenth Century as the armorial bearings of the native kings of the Isle of Man, whose dominion also included the Hebrides - the Western Isles of Scotland.

After 1266, when the native dynasty ended and control of the Island passed briefly to the Crown of Scotland and then permanently to the English Crown, the emblem was retained, and among the earliest surviving representations are those of the Manx Sword of State, thought to have been made in the year 1300 AD. The Three Legs also appeared on the Manx coinage of the seventeenth-nineteenth centuries, and are still in everyday use in the Manx Flag.

Why the Three Legs were adopted as the royal arms of the Manx kingdom is unknown. It was originally a symbol of the Sun, the seat of Power and Life. In ancient times the emblem was particularly connected with the island of Sicily (probably because of its triangular outline) but the Sicilian "Legs" were always naked and generally displayed Medusa's head at the central point.

A rather similar device was popular amongst the Celts and Norsemen in NW Europe, and in view of this it has been suggested that the Manx Three Legs were a heraldic modification of a native badge or emblem. Support for this theory may be seen in the appearance of the 'triskele', or simplified "Three Legs" emblem, on coins of the tenth century Norse King, Anlaf Cuaran, whose dominion included Dublin and the Isle of Man; and it is probable that the later Manx Kings were a branch of the same dynasty.

All the early examples of the Manx "Legs" show them as if running sunwise (i.e. clockwise) and to that extent the heraldic symbol of the Island still retained an essential feature of the ancient pagan sun-symbol. Although sometimes drawn anti-clockwise, that is singularly inappropriate.
- Government, Isle of Man


Here's a nice Celtic Triskelion on a shirt.

Image

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Dana Sheets
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Post by Dana Sheets »

There is also the idea in eastern thought that the three represents the infinity of all things.

First there was the one,
Then there was the two
From the two came the hundred million

So once you have three movements within a circle, you're representing infinity.
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THANKS FOR FINDING THE ISLE OF MAN FLAG SYMBOL!

Post by HALFORD E. JONES »

:D nO, i AM NOT GETTING THE SYMBOLS MIXED UP but pointing out that they have similarities in that whether they represent a 'solar' principle or some other esoteric principle or occult law,etc.,etc. the point is that these symbols can speak across ages and cultures,etc. Teh swastika seems to have four arms because it is merely another way of representing the circular motion of things,whether clockwise or counterclockwise. Again, the notions of evil and good are applied sometimes to these symbols which may actually be objective, just as Hindu gods can be seen in the same light: Kali and Shiva as destruction,etc. Brahma as Creation and Vishnu as preservation or continuance. These are also called the ABC's or Three Forces,etc. I don't have time nor inclination to do more than merely give you some rough indications which may or may not satisfy your emotional,mental, or physical centers very well but that is a problem each and everyone has to solve for themselves if they can and few do. But rather than carry on with this, which is clear to me, but probably muddy to others, I will desist for the time being and let the subject 'cool down'. I appreciate the links shown earlier and will check them out when I have more time.
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Post by druid »

Triskel
A triple spiral is sometimes suggested to represent the Triple Goddess of the three ages of womanhood. It later came to represent the holy trinity in Christianity; God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This motif is also called the triskelion, or triskel.
Image
...I find your lack of faith disturbing...
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WHOSE LACK OF WHAT FAITH IS DISTURBING?

Post by HALFORD E. JONES »

:D The Biblical definition of faith,which I can't recall at the moment, that is, in its exact wordings, as shown in the New Testament, probably sums up what faith is all about. However, taking things on faith alone, without knowledge, is often difficult, dangerous, and demanding. :wink:
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