This should be required MA study

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Bill Glasheen
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This should be required MA study

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Please, let's keep this thread a politics-free zone.

Most who study martial arts are thankfully spared the trauma of real assault. We all know it looms out there, and many enjoy the fantasy games we play in the dojo. But somehow no matter how hard you try, you just aren't going to get your arms around the multi-layered psychological aspects of it all.

The best we can do - before the event happens - is to study. And the material is available. And IMO, no teacher should call him or herself a martial arts instructor without a deep understanding of all this. Maybe YOU will escape this life without trauma and its aftermath, but one of your students likely will not. Or... I've found many students are there because they are the byproduct of classic PTSD. I could go on and on about this...

Here is a thread discussing a wonderful study in NEJM on PTSD. This is a pre and post study of soldiers that went to Afghanistan and Iraq (post-only for Afghanistan).

The aftermath of war

And here's a great article in USA Today. That discusses the subject in ways that we all can approach and understand.
Posted 2/28/2005 2:08 AM

Trauma of Iraq war haunting thousands returning home

By William M. Welch, USA TODAY

MORGANTOWN, W.Va. — Jeremy Harrison sees the warning signs in the Iraq war veterans who walk through his office door every day — flashbacks, inability to relax or relate, restless nights and more.

Image
Jesus Bocanegra, 23, who has been diagnosed
with post-traumatic stress disorder, visits the
South Texas War Memorial.
By Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY


He recognizes them as symptoms of combat stress because he's trained to, as a counselor at the small storefront Vet Center here run by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. He recognizes them as well because he, too, has faced readjustment in the year since he returned from Iraq, where he served as a sergeant in an engineering company that helped capture Baghdad in 2003.

"Sometimes these sessions are helpful to me," Harrison says, taking a break from counseling some of the nation's newest combat veterans. "Because I deal with a lot of the same problems."

As the United States nears the two-year mark in its military presence in Iraq still fighting a violent insurgency, it is also coming to grips with one of the products of war at home: a new generation of veterans, some of them scarred in ways seen and unseen. While military hospitals mend the physical wounds, the VA is attempting to focus its massive health and benefits bureaucracy on the long-term needs of combat veterans after they leave military service. Some suffer from wounds of flesh and bone, others of emotions and psyche.

These injured and disabled men and women represent the most grievously wounded group of returning combat veterans since the Vietnam War, which officially ended in 1975. Of more than 5 million veterans treated at VA facilities last year, from counseling centers like this one to big hospitals, 48,733 were from the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Many of the most common wounds aren't seen until soldiers return home. Post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, is an often-debilitating mental condition that can produce a range of unwanted emotional responses to the trauma of combat. It can emerge weeks, months or years later. If left untreated, it can severely affect the lives not only of veterans, but their families as well.

Of the 244,054 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan already discharged from service, 12,422 have been in VA counseling centers for readjustment problems and symptoms associated with PTSD. Comparisons to past wars are difficult because emotional problems were often ignored or written off as "combat fatigue" or "shell shock." PTSD wasn't even an official diagnosis, accepted by the medical profession, until after Vietnam.

There is greater recognition of the mental-health consequences of combat now, and much research has been done in the past 25 years. The VA has a program that attempts to address them and supports extensive research. Harrison is one of 50 veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars hired by the VA as counselors for their fellow veterans.

'It takes you back there'

Post-traumatic stress was defined in 1980, partly based on the experiences of soldiers and victims of war. It produces a wide range of symptoms in men and women who have experienced a traumatic event that provoked intense fear, helplessness or horror. (Related story: Iraq injuries differ from past wars)

The events are sometimes re-experienced later through intrusive memories, nightmares, hallucinations or flashbacks, usually triggered by anything that symbolizes or resembles the trauma. Troubled sleep, irritability, anger, poor concentration, hypervigilance and exaggerated responses are often symptoms.

Individuals may feel depression, detachment or estrangement, guilt, intense anxiety and panic, and other negative emotions. They often feel they have little in common with civilian peers; issues that concern friends and family seem trivial after combat.

Harrison says they may even hit their partners during nightmares and never know it.

Many Iraq veterans have returned home to find the aftermath of combat presents them with new challenges:

• Jesus Bocanegra was an Army infantry scout for units that pursued Saddam Hussein in his hometown of Tikrit. After he returned home to McAllen, Texas, it took him six months to find a job.

He was diagnosed with PTSD and is waiting for the VA to process his disability claim. He goes to the local Vet Center but is unable to relate to the Vietnam-era counselors.

"I had real bad flashbacks. I couldn't control them," Bocanegra, 23, says. "I saw the murder of children, women. It was just horrible for anyone to experience."

Bocanegra recalls calling in Apache helicopter strikes on a house by the Tigris River where he had seen crates of enemy ammunition carried in. When the gunfire ended, there was silence.

But then children's cries and screams drifted from the destroyed home, he says. "I didn't know there were kids there," he says. "Those screams are the most horrible thing you can hear."

At home in the Rio Grande Valley, on the Mexico border, he says young people have no concept of what he's experienced. His readjustment has been difficult: His friends threw a homecoming party for him, and he got arrested for drunken driving on the way home.

"The Army is the gateway to get away from poverty here," Bocanegra says. "You go to the Army and expect to be better off, but the best job you can get (back home) is flipping burgers. ... What am I supposed to do now? How are you going to live?"

• Lt. Julian Goodrum, an Army reservist from Knoxville, Tenn., is being treated for PTSD with therapy and anti-anxiety drugs at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington. He checked himself into a civilian psychiatric hospital after he was turned away from a military clinic, where he had sought attention for his mental problems at Fort Knox, Ky. He's facing a court-martial for being AWOL while in the civilian facility.

Goodrum, 34, was a transportation platoon leader in Iraq, running convoys of supplies from Kuwait into Iraq during the invasion. He returned to the USA in the summer of 2003 and experienced isolation, depression, an inability to sleep and racing thoughts.

"It just accumulated until it overwhelmed me. I was having a breakdown and trying to get assistance," he says. "The smell of diesel would trigger things for me. Loud noises, crowds, heavy traffic give me a hard time now. I have a lot of panic. ... You feel like you're choking."

• Sean Huze, a Marine corporal awaiting discharge at Camp Lejeune, N.C., doesn't have PTSD but says everyone who saw combat suffers from at least some combat stress. He says the unrelenting insurgent threat in Iraq gives no opportunity to relax, and combat numbs the senses and emotions.

"There is no 'front,' " Huze says. "You go back to the rear, at the Army base in Mosul, and you go in to get your chow, and the chow hall blows up."

Huze, 30, says the horror often isn't felt until later. "I saw a dead child, probably 3 or 4 years old, lying on the road in Nasiriyah," he says. "It moved me less than if I saw a dead dog at the time. I didn't care. Then you come back, if you are fortunate enough, and hold your own child, and you think of the dead child you didn't care about. ... You think about how little you cared at the time, and that hurts."

Smells bring back the horror. "A barbecue pit — throw a steak on the grill, and it smells a lot like searing flesh," he says. "You go to get your car worked on, and if anyone is welding, the smell of the burning metal is no different than burning caused by rounds fired at it. It takes you back there instantly."

• Allen Walsh, an Army reservist, came back to Tucson 45 pounds lighter and with an injured wrist. He was unable to get his old job back teaching at a truck-driving school. He started his own business instead, a mobile barbecue service. He's been waiting nearly a year on a disability claim with the VA.

Walsh, 36, spent much of the war in Kuwait, attached to a Marine unit providing force protection and chemical decontamination. He says he has experienced PTSD, which he attributes to the constant threat of attack and demand for instant life-or-death decisions.

"It seemed like every day you were always pointing your weapon at somebody. It's something I have to live with," he says.

At home, he found he couldn't sleep more than three or four hours a night. When the nightmares began, he started smoking cigarettes. He'd find himself shaking and quick-tempered.

"Any little noise and I'd jump out of bed and run around the house with a gun," he says. "I'd wake up at night with cold sweats."

'A safe environment'

A recent Defense Department study of combat troops returning from Iraq found that soldiers and Marines who need counseling the most are least likely to seek it because of the stigma of mental health care in the military.

Image
By Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY
Jesus Bocanegra is waiting for the VA
to process his disability claim.


One in six troops questioned in the study admitted to symptoms of severe depression, PTSD or other problems. Of those, six in 10 felt their commanders would treat them differently and fellow troops would lose confidence if they acknowledged their problems.

A report this month by the Government Accountability Office said the VA "is a world leader in PTSD treatment." But it said the department "does not have sufficient capacity to meet the needs of new combat veterans while still providing for veterans of past wars." It said the department hasn't met its own goals for PTSD clinical care and education, even as it anticipates "greater numbers of veterans with PTSD seeking VA services."

Harrison, who was a school counselor and Army Reservist from Wheeling, W.Va., before being called to active duty in January 2003, thinks cases of PTSD may be even more common than the military's one-in-six estimate.

He is on the leading edge of the effort to help these veterans back home. Harrison and other counselors invite Iraq and Afghanistan veterans to stop in to talk. Often, that leads to counseling sessions and regular weekly group therapy. If appropriate, they refer the veterans to VA doctors for drug therapies such as antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications.

"First of all, I let them talk. I want to find out all their problems," he says. "Then I assure them they're not alone. It's OK."

Fifty counselors from the latest war is a small number, considering the VA operates 206 counseling centers across the country. Their strategy is to talk with veterans about readjustment before they have problems, or before small problems become big ones. The VA also has staff at 136 U.S. military bases now, including five people at Walter Reed, where many of the most grievously injured are sent.

The toughest part of helping veterans, Harrison says, is getting them to overcome fears of being stigmatized and to step into a Vet Center. "They think they can handle the situation themselves," he says.

Vet Centers provide help for broader issues of readjustment back to civilian life, including finding a job, alcohol and drug abuse counseling, sexual trauma counseling, spouse and family counseling, and mental or emotional problems that fall short of PTSD.

More than 80% of the staff are veterans, and 60% served in combat zones, says Al Batres, head of the VA's readjustment counseling service. "We're oriented toward peer counseling, and we provide a safe environment for soldiers who have been traumatized," he says.

"A Vietnam veteran myself, it would have been so great if we'd had this kind of outreach," says Johnny Bragg, director of the Vet Center where Harrison works. "If you can get with the guys who come back fresh ... and actually work with their trauma and issues, hopefully over the years you won't see the long-term PTSD."

In all cases, the veteran has to be the one who wants to talk before counselors can help. "Once they come through the door, they usually come back," Harrison says. "For them, this is the only chance to talk to somebody, because their families don't understand, their friends don't understand. That's the big thing. They can't talk to anyone. They can't relate to anyone."
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Good point Bill..

Post by gmattson »

PTSD is a term most use only to describe a war related condition, but I'm sure, can be something that can affect anyone who is in any way, associated with violence.

As I've mentioned dozen of times on these forums, PTSD is something that certain martial artist, who are too preoccupied with demons behind every corner and door may be prone to suffer from.

Teachers should point out (often) that the average citizen will go a lifetime without being attacked or having his/her life threatened. Although the MA is grounded in self-defense techniques and mindset, what makes it an art, is the mind calmness and confidence that allows the practitioner to differenciate a lifethreatening situation and the majority of his/her life when they should be enjoying themselves.
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Wow!!!

I never thought about this, but I believe you've really nailed something here, George.
GEM wrote: PTSD is something that certain martial artist, who are too preoccupied with demons behind every corner and door may be prone to suffer from.
Now... read something from the article above that describes PTSD symptoms.
Post-traumatic stress was defined in 1980, partly based on the experiences of soldiers and victims of war. It produces a wide range of symptoms in men and women who have experienced a traumatic event that provoked intense fear, helplessness or horror. {snip}

The events are sometimes re-experienced later through intrusive memories, nightmares, hallucinations or flashbacks, usually triggered by anything that symbolizes or resembles the trauma. Troubled sleep, irritability, anger, poor concentration, hypervigilance and exaggerated responses are often symptoms.

Individuals may feel depression, detachment or estrangement, guilt, intense anxiety and panic, and other negative emotions. They often feel they have little in common with civilian peers; issues that concern friends and family seem trivial after combat.
Indeed, George, I believe we may have a single, AMA-approved word that gets to the syndrome you speak of - hypervigilance.

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I do wonder....

Post by IJ »

Acuity of horror is part of what predisposes to PTSD. Sudden, unexpected, intense experience are worse. By this, I might think that being a martial artist, facing stress and pseudo-confrontations, and being in a conflict mindstate might make the trauma less traumatic and lead to less PTSD, especially if this is done honestly and realistically (not hysterically). I've been attacked by groups twice and the first time was unexpected and paralyzing (tho no PTSD) and the second time, AFTER MA, was also completed unexpected but rather than being paralyzed, I was adrenalized and ready to charge. Common sense and math led me in the other direction. But there was no fear.

I am unaware if this has been studied.

On the other hand, the hypervigilant MA who is obsessed with the risk of attack (one that is quite overestimated in most), may be reflecting experiences or predispositions that were present before the MA started, or may never have a traumatic attack and so, if suffering from disabling hypervigilance, may just have a SD and not a PTSD. On the other hand, i could see how if MA works people up into a constant anxious state they might be predisposed to PTSD or some other anxiety disorder. The technical term is kindling--one bout of depression or anxiety or mania etc predisposes to others.
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PTSD

Post by paul giella »

I work with PTSD cases every day, from the mild versions to the truly disabling. I can tell you that there are many mild PTDS cases among us martial artists. Martial arts practice can help to an extent to calm the anxieties but, paradoxically, it can make it worse in some cases. When someone spends their life so preoccupied with attack and defense that it impinges on all the ordinary activities of life, like sleeping, eating, etc, it may have gone too far. Ask yourself this; despite your hard practice and your high rank, are you constantly fantasizing about attack and self-defense situations? Are you feeling you never know enough, are never armed enough (multiple personal weapons, etc)? Unless you are a law enforcement officer or a soldier in a war zone, why do you need multiple weapons? And have you noticed this paradox; the more training you have, the more weapons you carry, the less secure you feel ("I have a gun in my belt, another on my ankle, a CQC knife in my pocket, a karate black belt, more martial arts training than you could shake a stick at and I am still constantly worried about being attacked and hurt.") And what about this, a factor I have called "counterphobic behavior" (I wrote to Gavin deBecker about this; he hadn't heard of it but thought the idea was intriguing)... that we compulsively, driven by inner insecurity, actually seek out dangerous situations or put ourselves into harm's way out of some deep need to banish fear. We fight a guy and win. Feel secure for a short time but then think; what if it had been a bigger guy?, Two guys, a guy with a weapon, a gang with weapons... it never stops, and it cannot ever stop because the training never really addresses the source of the anxiety, it just masks it.

Anyway, I gotta go now, but if anyone wants to hear more about this let me know.
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Thanks Paul...

Post by gmattson »

Difficult subject and one that will make many of us martial artist feel uncomfortable as we examine the demons that fuel our fears.

I hope you will continue to explore this sensitive subject with us. From a professional standpoint, when should a teacher suspect that a student has a problem that the teacher is not qualified to help?
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Paul wrote:what about this, a factor I have called "counterphobic behavior" (I wrote to Gavin deBecker about this; he hadn't heard of it but thought the idea was intriguing)... that we compulsively, driven by inner insecurity, actually seek out dangerous situations or put ourselves into harm's way out of some deep need to banish fear. We fight a guy and win. Feel secure for a short time but then think; what if it had been a bigger guy?, Two guys, a guy with a weapon, a gang with weapons... it never stops, and it cannot ever stop because the training never really addresses the source of the anxiety, it just masks it.
Interesting, Paul.

This reminds me a bit of OCD. I happen to know some obsessive compulsive individuals. OC behavior can be quite beneficial. I would want my surgeon to be OC about sterility, process that adheres to evidence-based care, paying attention to monitors and other visible symptoms, creating a familiar enviroment that he/she feels comfortable with, etc. I would want my physician to put work before friendship and bloody yell at someone in the OR for making an error. I would want my physician to wash his/her hands inbetween seeing each and every patient. I would want my physician paying attention to expiration dates on medications, on sterilized intruments, etc. I would want detailed records kept of nosocomial infections, and have him/her up-to-date on newer and better ways to do things.

But...

* Washing hands repeatedly because you couldn't get through the process from beginning to end without doing something "stupid" - until days of this caused your hands to bleed - is dysfunctional.

* Not being able to eat your food because your child touched the plate first is dysfunctional.

* Having a clean environment in your immediate presence but a filthy one in your wake because you are afraid to touch the trash is dysfunctional.

* Not being able to get a flu shot because you don't trust the sterile technique of another healthcare worker - and consequently put your patients in jeapardy - is dysfunctional.

This is where functional OC becomes OCD - obsessive compulsive disorder.

I have noticed that even in the same individual that they can vacillate between "reasonably normal" OC and OCD. It takes all kinds to make a community. We all are allowed our picadillos that others may not prefer. The "D" part comes in when behavior prevents someone from enjoying their life, doing their job, and conducting their relationships. Furthermore, the "D" part is to be considered whenever you notice a change in behavior.

Back to Paul's quote above...

In my life, I've made it a point to experience things so I would know more about them.

Back in the drug-happy early seventies, I sat in on a few LSD parties as "the straight" so I would know something more about drug use and drug abuse. {Kids, this can get you into trouble!!!} The boomers were the first to experiment with many drugs (marijuana, LSD, cocaine, etc.) that - to them - seemed relatively harmless at the time. They became the running experiment that the next generation could benefit from. I enjoyed my peer relationships, and had a wide variety of friends from different social groups (athletes, freaks, veterans, geeks, etc.). I wanted to know something about the drug culture. Yes, I put myself in danger, and at the same time "looked after" my friends. I learned something. And it scratched my intellectual itch. Yes, I put myself at risk of getting arrested.

On many occasions I intentionally went into an eating place at around 4 AM after a day of work, an evening of workout, and a night of dissertation work. (This was my 3 to 5 hour a week period of my life. I burned the candle on 3 ends to get where I am today.) I sat in the back corner, and witnessed more than a few fights while I calmly ate my bedtime snack. Talk about multitasking... :P I learned a lot about human behavior before fights started, and the stupid games people play in the name of "honor." But... I never felt a need to get in there and tell the goons to "knock it off." I was happy with my seat in the nosebleed section.

I encourage people from all walks of martial life to enter my martial circle. Rich is one of a kind, and has been both participant with and instructor for the USMC. He's got a weapons collection that would make a survivalist jealous, and is a certified instructor in rifle, pistol, and shotgun. I learn what I can from him, and he takes me out to the range on occasion. But I haven't felt the need to leave my family behind and enlist at the age of 50. And while I am armed, it is within reason. I don't break laws, and I don't break the bank. I do not endanger my family. And...Rich doesn't scare me either. I don't mind having him as a neighbor and friend.

Any of these scenarios could be different. And there most definitely are "gray zones" here.

What is "normal" and what is "abnormal?" I'm smart enough to know what I don't know. Even my best neural net logistical models make mistakes!

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Post by paul giella »

Bill,
Good thoughts. the dividing line between normal and abnormal is indeed a subtle one, sometimes very hard to define. And not simply defined by the overt utility of the behavior. The example you gave of the surgeon with adaptive OCD traits is a good one. One would of course want one's surgeon to be careful, thorough, very rational and intolerant of deviation from proven and accepted protocol, but that does not require that the surgeon's behavior be neurotically driven. You may be familiar with the old term "secondary gain", an old psychoanalytic concept that speaks directly to the fact that many neurotic symptoms represent a compromise between internal anxieties and external realities... most neurotic adjustments, especially in the relatively healthy individuals, bring definite payoffs in terms of adaptive skills. That does not make them less neurotic, in the purest sense of the term, but it does make them harder to see and harder to change. Let's go back to your example. If your OCD surgeon were to undergo a successful analysis and undo the compulsive need for excessive perfectionism and germ phobia would that make him a less thorough and less skilled surgeon? No! He would more likely be a better surgeon, because much more of his mental energy is free to be applied to the rational approach to the task at hand. He would practice good sterile technique because doctors know that good sterile technique is essential for good medical care (not because good sterile technique is his way of keeping his own anxieties at bay). He would be clearing away some of the mental cobwebs that are clouding his clearest vision of the task at hand. Now, could a mildly OCD surgeon hide his OCD symptoms behind the rationalization that perfect sterile technique makes for better surgery? Certainly so, and this is why it is so difficult to know, on superficial review, whether his technique is a neurotic adjustment or not. On a practical level it hardly matters; both surgeons are effective and well qualified. But the less neurotic one enjoys the benefit of more emotional freedom and a more satisfying inner life that does the compulsive one. The judgement is not based on the simple external outcome (which may be exactly the same in both cases), it is based on something far harder to see and know and which could take a very long time to ever be known. Or maybe never be known, since most of us go through life with more of these neurotic compromises than we ever become aware of. Think of the Zen stories (Zen and psychoanalysis have exactly the same end goals, by the way). What does a man do before enlightenment? Chop wood, carry water. And what does a man do after enlightenment? Chop wood, carry water. What is the difference? The post enlightenment chopping and carrying is more mindfully and fully lived. Another one: what is the essence of Zen? In summer we sweat, in winter we shiver. (especially this winter!) We live more fully in the moment, less of our energy absorbed by intellectual, illusory layers of perception that actally distance us from the direct experience of ourselves and the world. Or this: the old Zen master says "when i was a child I looked at the mountain and saw a mountain. Then I became an educated man and I realized that the mountain was so much more complicated! Then I grew old and became enlightened and realized that when i look at the mountain I see just the mountain". Or the same notion from Bruce Lee: "Before I studied martial arts I thought a punch was a punch and a kick was a kick. The I studies and realized a punch is not just a punch and a kick not just a kick. But now I know that a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick". Zen practice and psychotherapy have different methods, but similar goals... the freeing up of inner experience from old, limiting mental templates.

Regarding PTSD it is somewhat more complicated because of the deep limbic system involvement in real trauma. But the goal is the same... to eventually free the individual from the need to overreact, emotionally, mentally, physiologically to situations in whhich the totalistic fight or flight response would be inappropriate. People with PTSD are like the cases of constant anxiety that deBecker so elequently describes at the end of The Gift of Fear when he describes the difference between healthy fear and unhealthy anxiety. If you are always anxious you cannot know what is an appropriate reaction of wariness or even fear. Read; neurotic fear vs realistic fear. If a person goes through life afraid and wary all the time (and, believe me, we go through powerful rationalizations to justify this wariness) he is at risk of overreaction in the form of seeing danger where none exists or even creating dangerous situations to justify the attitude.

Complicated, I know, and alot more needs to be said aboout this, but I gotta go again...
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Post by RACastanet »

My ears were burning...

"Rich doesn't scare me either"

I truly hope I scare no one. However, my daughter's boyfriends are very wary of me, and that is a good thing.

As Bill noted, I have the unbelievable opportunity to train with Marines, many of them truly elite. This gives me great insight into operant conditioning.

Also, I interact with vets of wars past and current. They all seem very well adjusted. Part of the elite training is meeting with combat vets who have seen the worst of it. On the schedule is a Marine many of you have seen on the evening news... his name is Wright and he lost both arms in Iraq.

His father, an Air Force Colonel and MD in the USAF's elite commando force was with me the last two days at Quantico and he told me how well his son has adjusted to his injuries and shows no remorse. One thing that is very helpful is that civilian industry is seeking out disabled vets and offering them good job opportunities. This was in the news recently but until I met someone who could confirm it I was not sure if it was really happening. This is something the Vietnam vets never had happen.

As for operant conditioning, I had an experience myself on Tuesday that was an interesting test. I needed to get a base pass for the week. The weather was very cold, windy and wet. Rather than block traffic, I pulled off the road and sprinted (remember, it was nasty out) up towards the gaurd shack to get a pass. Well, security conditions are elevated at military bases so I triggered a respone... Out jumps an 18 or 19 ear old Lance Corporal who yells 'STOP' and levels his shotgun at me!

Wow! I stopped, took a step back and put my hands up as I looked at this nervous kid running at me ready for action. This is the first time I ever had a weapon pointed at me with intent to stop me. After he recognized me he apologized and signed me in. What surprised me was that I had no chemical dump. No shakes, no tunnel vision. Have I been 'combat conditioned' or did I just not believe a Marine would shoot me? Do not know for certain but I do believe my operant conditioning overroad fight or flight.

More later...

Rich
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Rich wrote: I truly hope I scare no one. However, my daughter's boyfriends are very wary of me, and that is a good thing.
Rules for Dating My Daughter

Sometimes it pays to be a little over the top... ;)

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As a nation, now is not the time to pat

Post by gmattson »

ourselves on the back concerning the health condition of returning vets.

I remember when my uncle returned from WWII, a war where every vet was a hero and received a hero's welcome and the very best treatment by our government and businesses.

My uncle was in the very best spirits, showing no afteraffects from the war until years after his return. His deteriation was a slow, insidious process, resulting from his having to face-up to a normal, but tedious life after the interviews, hero treatment and benefits stopped.

How many returning vets will even admit to having a problem? How many will recognize the signs? How many will continue to play the role of a tough warrior for the world while attention remains on them?
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Post by Van Canna »

Always an interesting subject. We have discussed this on my forum over and over for years.

At the outset, let me recommend to you all, the book by Peter A Levine _

“Waking the tiger” _ a book graciously sent to me by my friend, Scott Sonnon. The book is “ A revolutionary exploration of the physiological effects and causes of trauma _ expands our understanding of the human mind and human behavior exponentially” _ A must reading for all us teachers.

Paul, I have done lots of work with “emotional stress” patients/employees/claimants_ under the Mass worker’s compensation statute, and interacted and read voluminous reports from top psychiatrists in the field.

This subject is a constant eye opener.
Van
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Post by Van Canna »

Paul, you brought up “fight or flight”

Let’s see_

The fight or flight response represents a genetically hard-wired early warning system—designed to alert us to external environmental threats that pose a danger to our physical survival. The system is highly sensitive, set to register extremely minute levels of potential danger from physical and or mental cues _ i.e., perception of danger.

Can the full activation of our fight or flight response, in training, cause us to become aggressive, hyper vigilant and over-reactive?

Maybe so.

Or is a “chronic anxiety state” that causes such things?

Let’s start with definitions:
hypervigilance is usually “a response to an external event (violence, accident, disaster, violation, intrusion, bullying, etc) and therefore an injury”
~~
the hypervigilant person often has a diminished sense of self-worth, sometimes dramatically so.


Hypervigilance is seen in conjunction with other symptoms of PTSD, but not in conjunction with symptoms of mental illness.

The hypervigilant person is hypersensitized but is often aware of the inappropriateness of their heightened sensitivity, and can identify the person responsible for their psychiatric injury.
Again, note that hypervigilance seems to “flow” from an “injury” _
Van
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

Can hypervigilance be caused by martial arts training?

Doesn’t look it that way, unless the way we train, or “explore/discuss” _ qualifies as “injury” _


Then we have anxiety
it cannot ever stop because the training never really addresses the source of the anxiety, it just masks it.
So…

Anxiety
A complex feeling of apprehension, fear, and worry, a ubiquitous condition that varies from the physiologic to the pathologic.

When pathologic, it can exist as a primary disorder, or it can be associated with medical illness, neurologic syndromes, or other primary psychiatric illnesses (eg, depression, psychosis).
So, anxiety is a medical condition.
Van
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

You state: > Martial arts practice can help to an extent to calm the anxieties but, paradoxically; it can make it worse in some cases. <

So we look at anxiety as a pre-existing medical condition.

And some of the people you mention with obsessive weapons and training behavior, reflect that condition prior to stepping into the dojo.
Van
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