Self-defense laws on the rise

JOHN THURSTON · Post by **JOHN THURSTON** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:57 pm

I guess a lot of us will be watching the SCOTUS case to be heard in the Spring.

For Mass. Gun Owners I posted a matrix sheet as to how this ONE state regulates the transportation of legally owned weapons.

Does anyone have an idea about how the 1986 Gun Owners Protection Act has interacted with the restrictions of the States, Cities and Twons??

J

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:18 am

As I understand it the major benefit of the 1986 FOPA is the right to transport a firearm from a state you are allowed to possess it to any other that you are allowed to possess it. It must be unloaded and enclosed or unaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. A trunk is fine as is just zipped up in a guncase in the rear of the vehicle.

So, I can leave Virginia and drive to Vermont legally in this fashion.

However, certain locals like DC and NYC disregard the law as they believe they are above it so on the way I'd give those cities a wide berth.

Rich

Rising Star · Post by **Rising Star** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:41 pm

Lots of briefs have been filed on this case. If you have free time for reading go to

http://www.abanet.org/publiced/preview/ ... l#district

John

Gene DeMambro · Post by **Gene DeMambro** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:32 am

There are an aweful lot of briefs supporting the District of Columbia. I admit, one even swayed me to its position.

Gene

Rising Star · Post by **Rising Star** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:03 pm

I am still working my through them.

As I find any new ones posted, I will keep all informed.

John

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:38 am

As I find any new ones posted, I will keep all informed.

That will be appreciated.

Rich

Rising Star · Post by **Rising Star** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:50 pm

Gene

Which brief did you find so compelling?

John

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:16 pm

John,

What is the penalty for getting caught with unlocked guns in your home?

Say there is a fire or emergency and firemen or EMTs respond or even a police officer.

They see an unlocked gun laying around, the police is notified and they show up with a search warrant finding several unlocked guns.

Is it illegal to have unlocked guns in your home while you are at home?

Some say the unlocked gun must be under your immediate control, such as at arms lenght to protect your family /children/wife [not licensed] from the weapons.

Thanks,

Rising Star · Post by **Rising Star** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:06 pm

Hi Van:

I have copied below the relevant statute and penalities, but yes, in a nutshell, most firearms must be locked and secured if not under your personal and direct control.

"Chapter 140: Section 131L. Weapons stored or kept by owner; inoperable by any person other than owner or lawfully authorized user; punishment

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(c) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon and such weapon was stored or kept in a place where a person under the age of 18 who does not possess a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B may have access without committing an unforeseeable trespass, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(d) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a rifle or shotgun that is a large capacity weapon, firearm or machine gun was stored or kept in a place where a person under the age of 18 may have access, without committing an unforeseeable trespass, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years, nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(e) A violation of the provisions of this section shall be evidence of wanton or reckless conduct in any criminal or civil proceeding if a person under the age of 18 who was not a trespasser or was a foreseeable trespasser acquired access to a weapon, unless such person possessed a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B and was permitted by law to possess such weapon, and such access results in the personal injury to or the death of any person.

(f) This section shall not apply to the storage or keeping of any firearm, rifle or shotgun with matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899, or to any replica of any such firearm, rifle or shotgun if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition. "

All the best,

John

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:59 am

Thank you John. Very sobering for all reading this.

Questions:

1. If you keep/store firearms in a locked glass gun cabinet _ would that be in compliance?

2. What if you keep them in a room with a door that you can lock? Are you in compliance?

…unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device.

What defines a ‘locked container’?

It seems that anyone who really wants to get at the gun _ he can snap the trigger lock easy enough or cut the lock cable.

Same with a locked room…one can kick the door open.

Wonder where the law draws the line.

Any case law on this?

Thanks

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:03 am

Also the police would have to get a search warrant to search for unlocked weapons, right?

Would they have probable cause to do so upon hear say from a fireman/emt/any person?

Rising Star · Post by **Rising Star** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:10 pm

HI Van,

The cases that I have either read or heard about are split on these issues.

How effective is a locked case that has glass doors? My own feeling is that if the guns in the locked glass case were also secured by trigger locks, that you could make a good argument that you made a reasonable and prudent attempt to comply with the statute.

Locked rooms - there are some cases that have addressed this. Issues raised were the nature of the lock, could it be easily defeated, could the door be opened by the removal of the hinges, etc. Also, even if a steel vault type door were in place, how were the walls constructed. Simple wallboard or something more substantial? Again, I believe that a good argument could be made if the firearms within the locked room/closet were also secured by trigger locks.

Law enforcement would have to have probable cause to search and a warrant would be necessary unless exigent circumstances existed necessitating immediate action. I believe that an affidavit from fire, ems personnel, etc that a unsecured firearm was present would certainly satisfy any Judge or Magistrate to issue a warrant. Of course the circumstances of how those individuals observed the unsecured weapon would have to be considered. For example, if I am sitting at home, with a weapon on my person or under my direct control and a medical emergency occurred such that the weapon had to be removed from my person or control in order to effect medical treatment, I do not see that as being chargeable.

Still an evolving field.

John

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:42 pm

Boy am I glad that I live in Virginia!

Rich

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:06 pm

SCOTUS may yet see the wisdom of your thinking, Rich.

We shall see...

- Bill

Gene DeMambro · Post by **Gene DeMambro** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:37 am

"BRIEF FOR FORMER DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICIALS AS AMICI CURIAE
SUPPORTING PETITIONERS" is the one I kind of liked. Not that I agree totally with it's position, but I like its structure and how it's written. And don't think I didn't notice that almost all of the people mentioned at the end were Democrat appointees. But, it is not my intention to get into a debate on gun control laws.

Cheers,
Gene

Self-defense laws on the rise

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