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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:51 am 
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I know these get old, but this is the most ridiculous I've ever seen; too good to not pass on! The begining is the same ol' beating up ten guys at once, but it gets better. :?

You've got to feel sorry for the poor old bastard in the second video when he spars with a non-believer, though.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=469158


Wish I knew what exactly was going on... anyone speak Japanese?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:59 am 
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This one has been floating around for a bit.

I believe the short version is, the younger gent, a karate and bjj practitioner, challenged the older gent, saying his stuff was bunk. They had an agreement that if the older gent lost, he would shut down his dojos, and retire in shame, yadda, yadda.

No idea what came of it, other than the beating.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:03 am 
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Good grief, if that background story is true these videos are even better.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:53 am 
better camera angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a ... ed&search=[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:04 am 
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What an old fool :sleeping:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:36 am 
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I don't think that's Japanese. It's Chinese.

We had a gentleman who did the "no touch" thing whom we invited to camp for some testing. He claimed to be able to do this through walls, and used to demonstrate it with partners. So I set up a blinded study where participants on the other side didn't know if they were to be pulled, pushed, or have nothing at all done to them. By the end of the test, he did worse than random chance. Go figure...

There is something we can take from this. There can be a very strong power of suggestion in life, and there can be people who are very susceptible to it. Pretty much a good portion of kyusho demonstrations are power of suggestion. Some of it is real, but a few well-known practitioners and demonstrators are not much better than this gentleman. Two parts efficacious targeted sequential striking, and 98 parts voodoo witch doctor.

Muhammed Ali brought a voodoo priest to Africa before he fought George Foreman, and made it known to poor young George that he was putting the hex on him. While he earned his victory, the "psych" job didn't hurt. At the very least, it was highly entertaining. In other words, vintage Ali. ;)

- Bill


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:33 am 
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So I set up a blinded study where participants on the other side didn't know if they were to be pulled, pushed, or have nothing at all done to them. By the end of the test, he did worse than random chance. Go figure...


man all that work Bill ....and would of got more mileage if you just belted him upside the head and put it on you tube !!! :roll: :lol: :twisted:

seriously though , do you think it`s a case of folks beleiving there own legend after a while , you know how folks get ......

obviously he thought it would work .

No wonder everyone thinks there art is the best , says a lot for testing , we never know for certain when were fooling oursleves .


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:07 am 
Yes Marcus the worst thing of all was that he believed it would work. You could see the look of shock on his face.

I have seen other nonsense like this where the students are leaping all over the place, then a non-student comes in and it all goes to heck in a hand basket.

It makes anyone who talks of qi look foolish.

And the same was true for the gentleman at camp. I took part in the test and there was no doubt that there was no effect. Some tried to present a different opinion later but there really was no doubt. Nice guy and a decent martial artist just the empty force stuff did not work.

It was a good test Bill.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:38 am 
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Van Canna wrote:
What an old fool :sleeping:


You talking about me agaiiiiiiiiin!!! :oops: :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:49 pm 
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"And the same was true for the gentleman at camp. I took part in the test and there was no doubt that there was no effect. Some tried to present a different opinion later but there really was no doubt. Nice guy and a decent martial artist just the empty force stuff did not work."

He came to England and I saw him first hand there, and again he could do nothing :oops: .except of course to a willing acolyte :lol: , but there are a lot of folks out there teaching cr*p.this guy is just more easily identifiable...and he obviously believed it :cry: .must have been terribly embarrasing having the snot kicked out of you.and suddenly realising that the folks who said you where a fake did have a point.......kind of a bloody epiphany :roll:

but I heard of the "Empty force" stuff 30 odd years ago, so I think there is something to it.and to qi-Kong..it's just that I'm not sure what :?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:54 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
kind of a bloody epiphany


Pun intended?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:22 pm 
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Marcus wrote:

man all that work Bill ....and would of got more mileage if you just belted him upside the head and put it on you tube !!!

Highly amusing, for sure. ;)

However...

First, I will not use the gentleman's name. My point is not to disparage. Rather what I want to do is to separate fact from myth.

So in regard to shedding light on the subject, the gentleman in question was a physically imposing figure. No "normal" person in his right mind would think to smack him upside the head. Embellishing the point a bit further, his meaty thigh - visible because he wore shorts - had a scar on it which was the result of being shot at point-blank range while pursuing a common thief.

Dr. Morenski and I worked online with The Amazing Randi to challenge him to a test. We had never met him before, but our academic intent was sincere. Randi did a little bit of baiting and saber rattling as he often does to flush such figures out into the open. Dr. Morenski and I worked together to design the experiment. George invited him to camp.

I'll never forget when I first met him. It was one of the first evening get-togethers, I believe. People where shaking hands and introducing each other. I was talking with a couple of people who were trash talking about "the test." Then someone came up to me with this imposing character with massive biceps. It was the "Empty Force guy." One person who had been doing the trash talking disappeared faster than I could turn my head. :lol: Amazing...

Now do you understand the "power" of "Empty Force?" It is very real. But it doesn't work on you if you have a well-developed brain and a set of stones.

He really was a nice guy, and I think he believed in what he was doing. But what he wasn't able to see is how his imposing presence could cause involuntary physical responses in people around him. Meanwhile I've gone out of my way to get to know, work with, and teach elite athletes. I grew up in a rough neighborhood, and chose to get to know the boys in "the 'hood." I grew up in the drug generation, and chose to sit in on a few acid parties (without participating). I bought a motorcycle and rode it every day for two years - rain or shine. I got to know members of the varsity football, basketball, and swimming team, and invited them to come train with us. I got to know the world champion power lifter (who once lived and coached at UVa), and invited him to help my students develop their weight training program. You see the thing is that I have "normal" fears just like the next person. But I choose to innoculate myself against my fears by acquainting myself with the unknown, the intimidating, and the uncertain.

So... this was just another lovable beast to me. We connected without problem. The test went as it should have.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:38 pm 
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Call me skeptical, but does anyone else think that second event looks just as staged as the first one? There did not seem to be any real contact, mostly just the younger guy smacking the older guy's hand. Even the kicks toward the end only hit the guy on the hand. The younger guy clearly was not putting any force in his strikes. A couple of punches may have made some contact, but it's not clear...and playing it slowly the punches seem to slip past the head a lot, usually ending with a tapping of the older guy's gi. The older guy's head also never had any physical reaction you would expect from getting hit.

The whole thing just had the look of some guys lightly sparring for points, not a match of any consequence as seemed to be implied...a bit of acting maybe? Makes me wonder how much it has been taken out of context by us just seeing these brief clips.

I could be way off, it just did not have the feel of a real fight.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:13 pm 
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The way I saw it was the younger fighter didn't want to kill an old man who had no idea how to defend himself. Watch Stryke's version and you can see he's clearly wailing on the guy, but not trying to kill him. Even still, the old man is bleeding profusely all over the place.

I think the drama you're referring to is the old guy being hit for the first time in his life. The nerds in high school do the same thing when they get punched: constantly checking to see if they're bleeding, and just sort of surprised.


Last edited by TSDguy on Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:19 pm 
check out the other link deffinatley contact


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