So, have the forums jumped the shark?

[MikeK]

It may be my imagination but I believe I've noticed fewer posters, and even worse way fewer views in the top forums.

So have these forums run their course, have they lost what made them popular in a bigger sea of information, is it a lack of topics people find interesting, is it the inflated egos, or has the drama just turned people off over time?

[Chris McKaskell]

Sure has been a lot quieter since certain rowdy Canadians were asked to leave the party....



Personally, I don't log on or take part as often as last year because we're cash strapped at work and toiling to catch up -- my industry got hit really hard by the economic downturn and there aren't any bailouts because we're simply not important enough; so, these days every minute counts and I simply don't have as much time as I did twelve/eighteen months ago.

I doubt I'm alone in this regard.

[Jason Rees]

I'm betting the economy has a big part of the equation... but also, internet forums have alot of peaks and valleys as far as usage goes. You get new people, they stay a while, contribute, then inexplicably disappear (get married, go to school, get a million other things on their plates...)... and then six months later to a year, they're back again. Or not.

I know I've disappeared from these forums for up to a year at a time. At those times there were alot of other things going on in my life. I have to admit, one six-month absence had to do with a nasty spat I had with Ian. All forgiven on my end long ago.

[MikeK]

I don't know about the economy but I've been hearing sounds of discontent from some of my online friends. Looking at how the women's forum has had some good discussions as of late, maybe it's time for fresh blood and fresh questions instead of the same old same old on the two main forums.

[CornMaiden]

My two cents...with the economy, few can take a chance at slacking and losing a job.

Have you ever googled yourself? I was trying to locate an old friend last year, via google, and up popped his latest job and certain things he had written in some forum/blog. Scary, because any employer can google an employee and see what someone has written under his/her given name. Who needs their boss to see they were posting on some blog or forum, with what they wrote and the time?

Boss looks...hmmm, my employee who is supposed to be hard at work for me is posting on company time. Fired and bye, bye job.

Food for thought.

Corn Maiden

[Bill Glasheen]

All good points. I couldn't agree more.

The forums - and martial arts in general - wax and wane for myriad reasons. Right now we're in an age where people are running scared. In reading the WSJ just yesterday I came across an article about luxury car brands that were doing poorly. Even with the people who have money, they don't want to appear affluent right now. It is unseemly, and they don't want to be noticed.

One of my old bosses called it the scimitar effect. Imagine your employer, your customers, or the government swinging one of these.



Everyone is ducking; nobody wants to stick out.

- Bill

[MikeK]

I don't think it's the economy folks, though I know it's getting the blame for a lot of things it has nothing to do with. Important posters have been dropping off for a while and the complaint seems to be the tone of the forums.

Looking at the view counts of some threads they look more like monologues than dialogues and that taint good.

[Bill Glasheen]

I don't think it's the economy folks, though I know it's getting the blame for a lot of things it has nothing to do with. Important posters have been dropping off for a while and the complaint seems to be the tone of the forums.

Mine was the first forum, Mike. Van's shortly followed when he saw the fun that was being had. (And of course he has lots to offer.) In any case... I've seen it all.

Believe it or not, things are much more in control. We didn't used to ban people, and we didn't initially have the ability to edit posts. In the beginning, it was like The Wild West. That actually generated LOTS of activity. But that isn't necessarily good for the art or for the individuals who participate.

Sometimes when I quietly delete a particularly nasty post, the person who contributed it is a bit peeved. They stop posting for a while. But they get over it - as do most adults. Is this a bit unfair on my part? Well... the most important thing here (other than to generate a biased platform... ) is to respect George's website. We genuinely don't want these discussions to get out of control, no matter how "interesting" they may become. Some think we edit too much; others not enough.

On particularly bad days, George docks my salary.

Looking at the view counts of some threads they look more like monologues than dialogues and that taint good.

It's ALWAYS been that way, Mike. There are many more lurkers than posters. Why? First, it is the nature of humans. And second, not everyone is up to being insulted. And insults "happen" on these forums. We try, but you know how testosterone affects communication.

Anyhow, I hear you, Mike.

No sharks jumped. But like SNL, there are good shows and then there are schitty ones. Watch long enough, and another good one will come up. John Belushi is dead, right? And yet who knew that a UVa grad would become famous doing impersonations of Sarah Palin?

- Bill

[gmattson]

I must get 20 requests a day from people who want me to join their facebook or whatever. Twitter is like a virus! Since I don't respond to "twits", the program sends me nasty notices asking me why I'm not active.

Each of these programs (not to mention the million blogs out there) are based on the forum interaction. . . in other words . . . they are competing with the now very staid and old forums.

Unlike facebook and twitter and others, our forums are like a martial art library. Whenever I have a few minutes I prefer to look up some topic that might have been discussed years ago to see how views changed with time. Lots of very interesting discussions.

Our forums are not measured by the quantity of material but rather by the overall quality of topics/viewpoints and occasional good natured chatter.

We aren't competing with anyone nor do we need massive amounts of contributors. We have a great group of serious martial artist and most have a sense of humor and only a couple take themselves a bit too seriously.

We were the first martial art forum on the internet and I predict we will be here as long as anyone has something interesting to discuss.

If you just want to view a hundred people saying hello to each other, send me an email and I'll send you a couple of really boring facebook people.

[Van Canna]

If you just want to view a hundred people saying hello to each other, send me an email and I'll send you a couple of really boring facebook people.

Right on George.

We se stuff on face book like "I just ran out of toilet paper...Don't know how I made it from the head to the the keyboard"

Imagine that...

The best hits are always the 'War threads'

[Van Canna]

And yes, Chris...our northern friends, may have been a bit too outspoken but they were the heart of these discussions and the occasional fracas so many people enjoy.

They should be invited back and given free rein to be as bad they want to be. Then watch the fish multiply as they decimate the court jesters with their hammers.

[harlan]

Perhaps it's silly question, but have you considered contacting posters to ask?

1. Personally, I think forums are very old-fashioned (in a good way), and appeal to 'people of letters'. Ones that enjoy the topic as well as the twists and turns of a good conversation.

2. Intelligent moderation is crucial. Certain forums are dead, and will stay that way, no matter how many contentious topics ('mma is death to karate', etc.) are floated to distract readers from the lack of depth. And that is due to inept moderation.

3. I think things are in flux, but forums that have a 'distinctness' about them will survive with a loyal (although 'quiet') following. Until a newbie steps in and says something interesting. People are sorting out the options. For example, Facebook to keep in touch with family and some networking, forums to research and connect for specialized interests, and blogging to write.

4. I think that one of the problems with forums is that they morphed to include non-relevant subforums; in order to please, and seemingly diversify, non-ma subforums meant for chatter, were created. Too much of that and a forum loses it's purpose, and specific appeal.

[Jason Rees]

First, well said, Mr. Mattson. Hear, hear!

1. Personally, I think forums are very old-fashioned (in a good way), and appeal to 'people of letters'. Ones that enjoy the topic as well as the twists and turns of a good conversation.

I like that. Doesn't explain the trolls, but I like it.

4. I think that one of the problems with forums is that they morphed to include non-relevant subforums; in order to please, and seemingly diversify, non-ma subforums meant for chatter, were created. Too much of that and a forum loses it's purpose, and specific appeal.

I couldn't agree more. There are other places for general chit-chat.

[Van Canna]

Not to lose sight of the fact that in many cases what people think of general chit chat...is something that relates to the subject matter in subliminal ways.

[Van Canna]

Jason

I like that. Doesn't explain the trolls, but I like it.

Good point. This dealing with trolls business has been an individual thing with some moderators.

It has been suggested by many readers that some moderators allow trolling on their forums because it helps with the 'hits'...

Or maybe it suits their personalities to solicit 'warring Threads'
on their page.

In any event forums discussions are a human activity and subject to human nature foibles affecting any and all of us. And this is what we must be able ro recognize and deal with...or we simply get off the forums.