running fire for running

[Khafra]

I've just been reading in the Kyusho archives about running fire, caused by excess rising chi, and the symptoms look vaguely similar to a caffeine overdose. I know lots of runners who say caffeine helps them a lot. What I'm wondering is this: What would happen if I deliberatly fostered this condition of too much chi, right before a relatively large expenditure of energy, such as running 3 miles?

[Allen M.]

Hi Khafra,

I've been dwelling on your post trying to relate chi to running. How can you develop too much chi? How can you even measure it?

I once knew a person who ran fast eight-milers, daily, for a number of years, then he started doing Chen's Tai-chi to "develop his chi." After some time passed, maybe 6 months to a year of doing Tai Chi, he was finally able to tap into the "runner's high," and frequently on demand, after five or six hard miles. Could this be the same thing?

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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/

[Khafra]

Allen--not really too much chi, but a condition which is reportedly experienced by many who start practicing Qigong without proper instruction or attempt to do too much too soon. It's also known as rising chi.

I don't really know of any indisputable scientific measurements for chi, though; I think they're debating that on a few other forums.

On the tai chi runner: Perhaps that's as close as I can get. From what I know, though, the runner's high is caused by endorphin release, and can even be dangerous for some marathon runners, such as the first one; current opinion is that he died from either an overdose of endorphins or thewithdrawal when he suddenly stopped running. Half of what I'm trying to do with this question is learn what chi can be useful for other than strictly martial arts and some healing benefits. I'd like to study a martial art, but the closest I've ever come to a fight was 9 years ago at a Boy Scout camp.

[Allen M.]

That runner's high is a neat thing. This individual I spoke of did 5-1/2 minute milers, and when the high would happen, he was able to time himself for sub-5-minute milers for brief spurts of 1/8 to 1/4 mile durations although he was already going all-out and fatigued by that time.

I suspect that the Tai-chi practice had helped him open the pathways (maybe by teaching him how to relax) to his internal stash -- a real heaven; quite a euphoric feeling. And the runner who died from the overdose? All I can say about him is "What a way to go!"

Personally, from personal experience, I feel that the intense practice of a chi-based martial art has medicinal benifits. There are a few MDs who tool around this forum who may be able to enlighten you from their viewpoint of chi generation. One of them is JD (Not the beloved Jack Daniels, rather Doctor-X), a neurosurgeon.

I wonder if the ability to slip into a trance-like state while doing kata has anything in common with the runner's high?

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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/

[Bill Glasheen]

Allen

First of all, our good Doctor X doesn't believe in chi (to put it mildly).

Secondly, there is a difference between the trance and the runner's buzz. The former is a state of mind that comes with a large number of neurons in the brain firing at the alpha frequency band. At least that's my understanding of it. The latter is a biochemically-induced high that comes from the release of certain chemicals called endorphins and enkephalins.

Kahfra

I seriously doubt that endogenous (from within) release of such neurotransmitters - or withdrawal from them - could cause death. Why a specific individual may have died at a certain point in time may have nothing to do with factors present at the time of death. One has to be cautious when trying to attribute causality.

I have heard of such things as "excessive rising chi," and the like, particularly when I was practicing Nei Gung. Mostly I think it is as I described above. Everyone brings their own baggage into a situation. When that baggage manifests itself dramatically at the same time that someone is having a new experience, it is human nature to want to attribute causality to the experience. Instead, it is often merely the peculiarities of an individual.

I confess that I do not believe there is any one thing that is "it" when people use the word chi (qi, ki, prana, etc.). Mostly as you learn the Chinese language, you realize that it is just a lousy job of translating descriptive (as opposed to technical) language used in another culture. In the end, "it" is often nothing more than an ability of some sort. And that ability isn't magic once you learn it and realized what it really is.

On the other hand...I do believe that we can transfer abilities from one activity to the next.

- Bill

[Allen M.]

Thanks for the info; knew they were different attributes, but no one ever discusses them in detail. For a real rush, Bill, get those dancing neurons and the endorphins activated at the same time!

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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/

[Brian Barry]

I don't understand chi. I'm having trouble figuring out if its some kind of physical or spiritual phenomena. I'd like to learn about it but I don't want to get into anything creepy. Thoughts?

[Allen M.]

Seeing I'm already in this discussion, Brian, I'll tell you that after 30 years of MA I don't understand chi either.

I relate it to weird and unusual sensations generated while practicing forms, esp. the tai-chi variety. Those same "sensations," after awhile can be brought to the surface by thought demand. Another way is mind-control over your body, such as doing a kick by only thinking about it as opposed to consciously making muscle movement, or making your hands turn purple. Also by sensing power in others and/or trying to steal their power by some sort of mental telepathy.

Nothing creepy about it except that before you engage in training be very careful who you pick as an instructor because there are a lot of "creepy ones" into chi out there.

But these are my thoughts and feelings, and like "chi" they are slippery in the sense that I have never been able to put my hands on what it really is. Therefore I never think about it much anymore except I feel it exists and those who spend their entire lives searching for this elusive thing are missing out on a lot more of what life has to offer. So choose: a) forget about it, 2) Think about it during your regular MA practice without ever letting the thoughts of chi own you, or 3) go for it by separating yourself from the rest of the world for the next ten to thirty or more years in the search of the truth.


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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/

[Bill Glasheen]

I second that.

Better to live a rich life while contemplating ghosts rather than waste a good one chasing them.