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Why Repetition Is Necessary

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 4:56 pm
by Jackie Olsen
A Warrior of Light knows that certain moments repeat themselves. He often finds himself faced by the same problems & situations, and seeing these difficult situations return, he grows depressed, thinking that he is incapable of making any progress in life.

"I've been through all this before," he says to his heart.

"Yes, you have been through all this before," replies his heart. "But you have never been beyond it."

Then, the Warrior realizes that these repeated experiences have but one aim; to teach him that what he does not want to learn."

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:24 pm
by Dana Sheets

On the first day I walked down the street and I fell in the hole.
On the 10th day I walked down the street and I fell in the hole.
One the 100th day I walked down the street, I knew there was a hole, and I fell in the hole.
On the 1000th day I walked down the street, I knew there was a hole, and I walked around it.
On the 10,000th day I came to the street, I knew there was a hole, and I walked to the next street.

One of the best things I ever heard another student say about teaching was "The role of the teacher is to have more patience with the student than the student has with themselves."

I try to remember that when I lose patience with myself for being slow to learn the lesson.


PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:30 pm
by Jackie Olsen
Good analogy about learning to avoid the hole! Sometimes we beat ourselves up for stepping into the forgetting circle, only to remember we just need a few more repetitions!

Ah, yes, patience ... that is the one reason my sensei has all his black belts regularly instruct the white belts. A good teacher must have patience with herself as well as the student.

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 7:38 pm
by maxwell ainley
Hi Jackie,Dana

Obviously repetition is vital to our experience ;your quote for example shows the warrior at a crossroads ,he question's himself via the heart on repeated moments ,and he also feels depressed on how to move forewards .
Anyone involved in this kind of repetition will feel quite similar upon reaching that insight into the warrior's state ,but to travel onwards can be difficult ,now I don't know what repetition involvment the warrior is on with ,but his state of presence offers valuable information to me ,and how to change that state to a more evolved one ,

The repetition's have yet to reach a balance of patience ,this will stop the intervention of the negative for depression once it gains a stronger foothold within those conflicting emotions ,we need to reach a vantage point were we can see quite clearly the way our present state operates within the crossroad level reached ,our repetitions can now see a simple meaning before we move onwards we need to tidy our emotional states up ,this will lead to a change in us, unseen by our ordinary sight ,its a common mistake to think we can get by the obvious without this change .
This balance state also requires nuturing some what before applying ourselves to its new direction ,we move out of the crossroads armed with new insight into just how the human organism can evolve .


PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:09 pm
by Jackie Olsen
Thanks, Max,

... for your insight on the travels at the crossroads... I am afraid that many times the path chosen leads me to the "plains (planes) of desolation." After much wandering around there, I find that what I must do is take it to the the limit one more time (to quote the Eagles'). The balancing & tidying up of our emotional states is most prevalently shown (I think) in our approach/execution of our kata. That is what I feel Sanchin ultimately teaches me.

The Tao Te Ching says it best:
In the pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added. In the practice of the Tao (kata, Sanchin?), every day something is dropped. Less and less do you need to force things, until finally you arrive at non-action. When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.

True mastery can be gained by letting things go their own way. It can't be gained by interfering.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:57 pm
by maxwell ainley
Jackie, just spent a good bit of time composing a reply ,but it some how was rejected .Anyway thanks for comments ,have to go out now ,I will repost later .

A bit of what I posted ;travel info on sanchin beyond certain points comes in the form of hint's ,or is only disscussed in private .


PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:19 pm
by Jackie Olsen
Hi Max ... check your PM... Jackie

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:39 pm
by maxwell ainley
Hi Jackie, I have only read bits of the TAO TE CHING ,but it does make food for thought ,the passage's that have come my way ,any way your choice of quote offers insight.
Let's stay at the crossroads in development level reached so far ,non-action no-mind etc ,can be experienced earlier in repetitive work ,this is a sort of earth shattering experience ,that is reached ,but to make a full every day natural way ,we arnt ready to live and breath it .But non the less we can earn the right to have a quick taste of it .
A man or woman coming to that crossroad ,based on that expression yet still in conflicting thought /emotion ,whatever may be the case will have the advantage over ,someone unaware of its existance yet working hard thinking his /her conflicting state is the only one possible ,when questioned most will deny they are in conflicting states.
Non -action is difficult to achieve in full while in conflicting states ,thats were balance is required to change the doer behind conflict ,we live in our emotion's and thoughts in various degree's ,in most cases the doer will not let go of these conflicting states ,we hold on to them like a leach ,even thinking we are in control .

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:34 pm
by maxwell ainley
In a similar vein to the TAO TE CHING I said in other posts just notice ,but don't interfere .
But when we are in conflicting states we can't help but interfere ,we need to within repeated moments and new ones to watch and resist the inclination to interfere .This will bring new order to our inner and outer action's .
To develop the noticing action is difficult ,but a good start would be to turn the idea over during the day ,give it thought ;its establishment works better once any repetition is well entrenched and in flows .
Now the doer ,of conflict we, is involved in a totally different way to the travel come through up to these crossroads ,the old doer will change now provided he /she faces those repeated moments in a more watchfull way .

This will bring a practioner into the middle state between the extremes of positive thought and negetive thought ,this is a part of what I mean in balancing up ,our old antics will keep cropping up ,I mentioned that on kata and memory .

We are learning to be centralized within ,we arn't perfect mistakes will be made ,but return to the central position in practice and watching ,while we are involved in this we don't need new technique,on the contarary we working harder now than ever before .


PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:06 pm
by maxwell ainley
In repetition we have now changed, our position ,rather than be dragged around in negatives that block our way ,or say I must be positive ;attempting to change our motive in that manner will lead us sooner or later back to negative .
This is nothing more than a revolving door situation ,that repeats its self endlessly ,we need to get to grips with this ,these negative moments rob us of the correct use of energy and power in a repetition ,they also create a type of stress that we may try to infect others with in life .
By learning to avoid either form of energy ,we start to recieve another energy ,this energy is enlightning or directed that way at least .

Lets say some one was enlightened to a certain level ,he or she would feel that energy ,and along with other characteristics involved ,find difficulty in attempting to explain it .
In negative's we really close up our capacity to experience in a whole way ,also when positive we get a one sided veiw ,although we may feel positively charged up ,yet with practice by centralizing between we will get a more whole veiw of the repetitive moment .


PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:45 pm
by maxwell ainley
In kata and memory I said at each stage my repetitions are now aimed at a second subject ,after indulging for years to one subject ,this balancing I speak of in this topic is given direction .
I said repetitions undergo three stages blind /partial blind /aware ,when we enter into a blind stream of repetition ,were we can't see beyond our level .We can start to search in various directions looking for a way forewards ,the balancing process gives us centralization ,our senses re-open to this principle ,obviously they were on shut down in the blind stream of our repetition ,remember for sanchin we arn't just working the physical principles we are working the other two sides of the triolgy ,we must not let the physical get too far head of the other two .

The emotional is now being brought up to balance this delicate balance and because we are more central the spiritual force kicks in ,we can't always see this spiritual side ,and we can sadly mistake it for the ego at times .
We need to take a long look at our motives to sort this monster out from real more evolved spiritual work on our selves .

We become partial blind to the principle ,then aware I can now make use of this principle at work and play ,I experience more now ,but because I fully admit to conflicting tendancys that test my resolve on the thee sided triology inaction no mind is not of that level .


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:11 pm
by Jackie Olsen
Thanks, Max,

... for your well-thought out responses. There is much here to digest and think about.

Non-action is quite the paradox and the hardest concept to explain as well experience. It is that philosophy that embraces ..."by doing nothing, the grass receives sunshine, water, and grows."

Bruce Lee did express formlessness exquisitely, comparing to water. Just like water, he became the form. Water in a cup looks different that water flowing in a stream ...

Regarding the physical/mental/emotiona/spiritual aspects, I had a teaching that talked about:
    Giving with the Emotions
    Holding/Transforming With the Body
    Receiving With the Mind
    Determining With the Spirit

It is when these aspects are out of balance -- giving with the Body - holiding the emotions, for example -- that causes us the most difficulties. So, we constantly examine our state to stay in balance so that we do stay aware and avoid the blindness or the other traps. It is these conflicted states that contribute, I believe, to our greatest growth -- and the repetitions are necessary. Each one, hopefully, building on the foundation of the other.

That is why many students do not stay in the martial arts. After knowing or learning all their katas, some turn around and say "Is that all there is?" ... never realizing that while one circle has ended, another is just beginning...


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 5:35 pm
by maxwell ainley
Thanks for comments Jackie ,you are right non-action is indeed a difficult concept to transmit .
In satori experiences we come into the non-action side of man/woman ,but to handle this take's mature understanding ,and it can be a bit of a fright in anyone's book ,we are too used to dealing with our lifes events in sometimes local or cultural ways ,this non-action is the other side of the coin .
I know there are sudden methods to attain it ,and the gradual route ,the former is a jump across the gradual to land in that state ,it as both a rapture and a tremendous jolt to the system to it ,on other talks I said the rapture is a sort of protection ,to the sudden jolt .Its a bit like being electricuted ,the man or woman would be totally surprised on one hand yet at the same time be at home for the first time .its a new level lost site of in man/woman .

I have been mostly talking about the gradual method ,that might not be carried out in a life time , due to doubt ,or fear or inconsistant effort ,plus a inner /outer lack of understanding to what and how we under go transformation .let me say piling one technique on the top of the next does not mean there is balanced transformation taking place .

We need to know if we are for the gradual ,or are we ready to make a special effort and jump ,you now abandon our present state ,which type are we ??.
A major problem is we cling to our present state,even when we say ,or feel we are moving towards another ,a purpose of sanchin is to free us from this cage we imprison our selves in ,we arnt free when we are held in the sway of all our negative moments ,we can hang on to these negatives like glue .are we prepared to let go of them ,this is a part of the sudden method ,or or do we want to replace them with a different negative ,sort of changing the goal posts , are we watching these negatives creep in to our training in all shapes and forms ,they also feed of our imagination ,we need to let go of these negatives rooted in our imagination .

To abandon all this is to jump ,non- action awaits he or she who dares ,otherwise we will have to take the gradual route .


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:47 pm
by maxwell ainley
Giving with the emotions, is seen in life but its not made a perminant aspect of type ; there tends to be a swinging in and out to suit moods etc in most of us .we don't have a good understanding of this state ,we seem to be slaves to our emotions ,to give with the emotions can heal our specific flaws that we use in non-understanding types of ways .we are the closest to these emotions ,but we can't resist for long swinging back to older entrenched habits .
If we adopted and made more of a understanding of this ,giving with the emotions it would open up a whole new level of understanding ,and obviously our wisdom would after grow to better direct it .
For instance love combined to wisdom will not be blind ,when we go into hate filled moments ,wisdom seems to be undermined ,like lots of what we speak of hear it can't be bought of the supermarket shelf .


PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:09 pm
by Jackie Olsen
Thanks, Max for your deep and interesting reflection.

I've held off on a direct reply, hoping that it would stimulate conversation with someone else in this direction.

I believe that what you've expressed represents the inner way or road that each of us may travel in seeking learning. And to be aware of and even acknowledge those experiences you discuss takes someone who has trod up the path many times, only to find another hill.

Yes, giving with the emotions (I should add without expectations as well) is not a permanent state because we can only sustain a certain level before the old ego creeps in. That is why repetition is necessary in all things. Hopefully, we do something enough times to break an old pattern so we can evolve into a new way of being.

Is our Sanchin the same today as it was 5 years ago? If it is, we probably haven't grown as much as we thought we have (or may not even be training any more) As Sanchin mirrors the mindset, I believe that this is a good indicator of our growth.