Fuzhou Suparinpei

[stephen mcnally]

Bill (et al).

Reading the very interesting 'Bridge kata' thread, I was curious about the Fuzhou suparinpei which is discussed. I wondered if you'd be so kind as to answer a few questions for me, where you can. I know of the name Suparinpei but other than that, know nothing of the kata so please forgive my ignorance.

Is this the alleged 'lost Uechi kata' which (according to rumour) Kanbun didn't have time to learn in China ?

What is the significance of 'Fuzhou'. I presume this is a place/region but I'm guessing.

Is there a noticeable connection between this and the 3 core kata or is it distinct.

Finally, any chance of a clip

Thanks,

Steve.

[Bill Glasheen]

Busy day, so I'll cut to the chase.

Is this the alleged 'lost Uechi kata' which (according to rumour) Kanbun didn't have time to learn in China ?

Allegedly yes. By Simon Lailey's account (a Goju practitioner who discovered it in Fuzhou and taught it to me) it was being taught by a very, very old gentleman who allegedly was the nephew of Kanbun's teacher in China.

What is the significance of 'Fuzhou'. I presume this is a place/region but I'm guessing.

This is Bill Glasheen's nomenclature. The name Simon got for the form was "yi bai lin ba bu," which was a local way of saying "one hundred eight steps." "Suparinpei" translates as "one hundred eight." (BTW, 108 steps could mean 108 techniques in the form, or - more likely - the Buddhist 108 steps to enlightenment). I call this Fuzhou suparinpei to differentiate it from the Goju suparinpei (not a bit like it) without necessarily calling it "the" suparinpei of Uechi Ryu (the alleged lost kata).

Is there a noticeable connection between this and the 3 core kata or is it distinct.

Absolutely. It exists in the techniques used, the stances used, the penchant for engaging in infighting, and the unique techniques in it not in "the big three" but mysteriously found in the 5 Uechi bridge kata. And where it is different, one can easily see how it could be an extrapolation forward from the big three. (If you only knew sanchin and seisan and saw sanseiryu, would you think it was from the same system?) In any case, it's from the same general body of knowledge that Kanbun was exposed to.

Finally, any chance of a clip

I performed on and Bill Jackson filmed a video that can be bought elsewhere on this forum. And I don't make any money off of it (I consider it my contribution to the style) so I have no problem pushing the tape and letting the management make a nickel off of it. But perhaps we could come up with a short clip that would show some interesting techniques that truly nail the form as being "ours" in one way or another. There's one sequence in particular that seems like an extension of ideas and techniques explored in seisan that would get most people from Uechi Ryu very excited.

I'll chat with "the management."

- Bill

[Stryke]

Bill how about posting the whole kata , that`d truly be a gift to the martial arts communty we could all learn from .

I take it youve got nothing to loose financially from doing so ?

maybe you could do the Sanchin clip while your at it ?

this is an area of Uechi i`m very interested in , it seems significant and important in a historical context .

And if this is the kata that Kanbun was not advanced enough to learn , maybe some of the wider Uechi community can give there feedback .

[stephen mcnally]

Thanks Bill, very helpful.

On a related topic, what is your understanding of the significance of the numbers in the main kata, 3, 36, 108 etc.

Steve.

[Tokezu]

Bill,

a video that can be bought elsewhere on this forum.

I looked for this and got cornfused. I've been wanting to see this for years and figure if I don't move on it now I might never.

Is it possible to be more specific on how to find/buy this?

best regards,
DLF

[Guest]

looks like Bills video is out of stock.

he's one of Simon

http://karateworld.safeshopper.com/10/14.htm?325

[gmattson]

http://karateworld.safeshopper.com/14/cat14.htm?325

[Guest]

Thanks George.Thought video 7 was Bills , never looked under the special page. My bad.

[jorvik]

This is interesting, the "lost kata".....bit like the holy grail ..........but you have to ask what did this old chinese guy teach, apart from suparinpai.I mean if he taught more "Uechi" katas such as sanchin, then you'd have an argument that this was bonafide.............but if he taught Tae Kwon Do, and Suparinpai.........then I guess it would be a a bit more speculative, So did he teach other stuff?.........if so what?........may even find a Uechi Bo kata

[Bill Glasheen]

He did teach other stuff, jorvik, although I can't tell you what. It was my impression from Simon that these folks collected a few forms here and there, and didn't necessarily keep a coherent set like we think of. Also, the content of the suparinpei form was somewhat fluid, and varied from person to person.

That reminds me a bit of a crane master that George invited over in the mid 1980s. That guy taught a skeleton crane form, but his own form changed each and every time he did it. That's cool by them.

I've temporarily lost contact with Simon. When I get back in contact, I'll let you know more detail.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Stryke

The Fuzhou suparinpei form takes me 3 minutes to do. It's a long-a$$ed form for sure. And even with the high-quality clip that Bill did, I've been told by a kata expert (Bill Stockey) that it's still pretty tough seeing the detail of what I am doing with my hands. It would be much tougher with an MPEG or similar format.

George makes a nickel or two off of the tape or DVD, and I don't mind that. I don't think it's that expensive.

Yes, I'll get around to filming a sanchin some day soon. So much other stuff going on... My student is supposed to do that for me some day.

By the way, George, is my nanadan test kata for sale somewhere in your set of tapes? I know somebody filmed it.

On a related topic, what is your understanding of the significance of the numbers in the main kata, 3, 36, 108 etc.

It's my understanding that the numerology is linked to the Buddhist religion. It has little to do with the forms per se.

Don't forget the number 13 (seisan).

Note, by the way that 3*13 = 36. And 3*36 = 108.

And there are 108 steps to enlightenment, so the suparinpei form is always The Big Kahona.

- Bill

[stephen mcnally]

It's my understanding that the numerology is linked to the Buddhist religion. It has little to do with the forms per se.

Thanks Bill.

I'd heard that there was a Buddhist significance but I also thought there was a more practical interpretation although numbers of steps, strikes etc never really convinced me.

Seems not though anyhow


Thanks again,
Steve.

[Stryke]

Deffinately Bhuddist conotations

and while giving the unbeleivers amunition

how about the 36 Habitual acts of physical violence and the 72 variations of the theme

108 anyone ?

Understand Bill just curious on the Sanchin , im way of having to takle another Uechi kata so i`ll leave the Superempai for a while , Is interesting though .

I personally am less in awe of styles these days , and dont necessarily beleive one lesson always reinforces the other , I`d rather think it compliments it .. which is indeed a different thing .

George makes a nickel or two off of the tape or DVD, and I don't mind that. I don't think it's that expensive.

dont want to insunuate anything about the tape being for sale , George does a good job at providing this information this way , and good for him if he makes a meagre profit on the side( cant be cheap doing all this )

Just am also aware of the cost of such information not being available more widely , but it doesnt appear to be the case .

[Tokezu]

Mattson Sensei,

Where are you looking guys???

http://karateworld.safeshopper.com/14/cat14.htm?325
_________________
GEM

Sorry! I got all confused by so many choices and didn't see Tables of Contents on each selection.

Please excuse! I'm not a rocket scientist after all.....

No wait. Maybe I am.


DAMN!




Seriously- Thank you for your help. I am looking forward to obtaining and viewing this.

DLF

[JaySal]

My Sensei (Robert Campbell), asked me to please post the below letter.

Dear Friends,

For those that know me, know I have lived in Asia these past 28 years.

May I in the most polite terms as possible cast a shadow on any reference as to Mr Simon authenticity to his supposed study under a Teacher in Southern China with claims that, said Teacher, was the Nephew of Kanbum's Teacher.

Utter Nonsense & and Pure Fabrication !

Simon told me he was studying White Crane whilst he ( Simon ) worked briefly here in Hong Kong and did visit my home several times and our chats were only about Martial Arts.

Simon did pay visits into China whilst he worked here a couple of Years.

Simon can not speak Cantonese, Putonghu or Fukienese so it's interesting regarding the language barrier talking with the Master.

I know Simon had a lady friend who sometimes interpeted.

What I find strange is why not once did Simon ever mentioned this so-called mysterious Uechi-like teacher nor mention any Lost Kata that he " Simon " discovered in his visit and chats at my home !

I find absolutely nothing wrong with anyone practicing any Kata of choice, be it old, new or just about to be born, I care not. I have created many
kata movements of my own !

However, let us not legitimize anything with out factual, historical proof regarding any matter pertaining to Uechi Ryu.

With all do respects to anyone concerned, as a practioneer of Uechi Ryu for over 4 decades, I take a dim view of stories which have not
been verified and documented by experts regarding mysterious masters and lost kata.

Question : How do you tell an authentic Chinese Origin Form from a Japanese - Okinawa Form ?

Answer : All Chinese Styles are ambidextrous ! Equal use of right and left hand and foot techniques within a given form hence almost all have an equal - number - of - movements.

Japanese & Okinawa Forms are mostly right-handed, Goju & Uechi are heavly favored - right handed

This is a symplistic point but good enough to start one thinking.

Examine closely what is being called a Chinese Form by using this small comparative. However, one needs to have rather extensive knowledge of multiple Chinese Styles to know a fake ( chop-suey kata ) from an authentic one !

Lastly, there is nothing wrong in creating one's own kata......

Why not. I think its great !

No one should try to legitimize chop suey when chop suey is really not authentic Chinese Food ..... same is true for Kung Fu

By the way, If anyone would like to send me the name and address of this mysterious Master in Fuzhou, whether you write this in English or Chinese, I will go and most respecfully visit this Gentlemen. Fuzhou is a few hours
from Hong Kong and I can speak and write the language !

To All, Enjoy your training, share what you have learned

Respectfully.

Bob Campbell in Hong Kong