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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

From CNN
Kennedy calls for Iraq withdrawal

Senator: U.S. military presence 'part of the problem'

Thursday, January 27, 2005 Posted: 12:18 PM EST (1718 GMT)

Image

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The American military's continued presence in Iraq is fanning the flames of conflict, and signals the need for a new detailed timeline to bring the troops home, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy said Thursday.

Just three days before the Iraqi people go to the polls to elect a new government, the Massachusetts Democrat said America must give Iraq back to its people rather than continue an occupation that parallels the failed politics of the Vietnam war.

"The U.S. military presence has become part of the problem, not part of the solution," Kennedy said in remarks prepared for delivery at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.

{snip}
From USA Today
Posted 2/1/2005 2:28 AM Updated 2/1/2005 1:48 PM

Iraqi president: U.S. troops should stay

BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraq's president said Tuesday it would be "complete nonsense" to ask foreign troops to leave the country now, although some could depart by year's end. Officials began the final vote tally from elections to produce a government to confront the insurgency.

Image

{snip}

Sunday's election, which occurred without catastrophic rebel attacks, raised hopes that a new Iraqi government would be able to assume greater responsibility for security, hastening the day when the 170,000 U.S. and other foreign troops can go home.

During a news conference, President Ghazi al-Yawer was asked whether the presence of foreign troops might be fueling the Sunni Arab revolt by encouraging rebel attacks.

"It's only complete nonsense to ask the troops to leave in this chaos and this vacuum of power," al-Yawer, a Sunni Arab, said.

He said foreign troops should leave only after Iraq's security forces are built up, the country's security situation has improved and some pockets of terrorists are eliminated.

"By the end of this year, we could see the number of foreign troops decreasing," al-Yawer said.

Al-Yawer had been a strong critic of some aspects of the U.S. military's performance in Iraq, including the three-week Marine siege of the Sunni rebel city of Fallujah in April.

Al-Yawer helped negotiate an end to that siege. But the city fell into the hands of insurgents and religious zealots, forcing the Marines to recapture Fallujah last November in some of the heaviest urban combat for American forces since the Vietnam war.

"There were some mistakes" in the occupation "but to be fair ... I think all in all it was positive, the contribution of the foreign forces in Iraq," al-Yawer said. "It was worth it."

{snip}
Anybody ever wonder what Teddy is "imbibing" these days? :roll:

- Bill
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Deep Sea
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Post by Deep Sea »

Everyone listens when a senator from Massachusetts speaks, right?

At least he didn't call the elections fake like Gorbi did:
“very far from what true elections are. And even though I am a supporter of elections and of the transfer of power to the people of Iraq, these elections were fake.”
Image

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/01/31/ ... iraq.shtml
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

What do you expect him to say? Russia was one of the countries "on the take" in the oil-for-payol... I mean oil-for-food program. When Saddam was overthrown, they lost out not just on Iraqi oil credits, but also on payment of debt that Saddam ran up while doing what he did at the expense of his people.

I expect Gorbi and other Russians to be bitter...

Even Chirac was more generous that Teddy and Gorbi. From a China news source...
PARIS, Jan. 31 (Xinhuanet) -- French President Jacques Chirac on Monday hailed Iraqi elections as "an important stage" in the country's political reconstruction, according to Chirac's spokesman Jerome Bonnafont.

"These elections constitute an important stage in the political reconstruction of Iraq, terrorist groups' strategy has partially failed," Chirac said in a telephone conversation with his US counterpart George W. Bush.

The French president said that "the turnout and the good technical organization of the elections were satisfactory."

The electoral commission estimated that between 60 and 75 percent of registered Iraqi voters have cast their ballots.

Chirac noted that "for the future it was important to include all groups that have renounced armed struggle, especially for the constitution drafting," according to Bonnafont.

- Bill
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Deep Sea
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Post by Deep Sea »

I expect Gorbi and other Russians to be bitter...
Of course. Our presence there is taking jobs away from hungry Russian scientists.
Always with an even keel.
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MikeK
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Post by MikeK »

I was dreaming of the past...
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

A portion of an article from today's Wall Street Journal.
Corruption Probe
Implicates Head
Of Oil-for-Food


By JESS BRAVIN and STEVE STECKLOW
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
February 3, 2005

A corruption probe of the United Nations' defunct oil-for-food program implicates the program's former director, Benon Sevan, according to an interim report to be released today by Paul Volcker, former chairman of the Federal Reserve Board who heads the inquiry.

Mr. Volcker summarized details of the report in an editorial-page feature published in today's editions of The Wall Street Journal.

According to Mr. Volcker, the program's procurement system was "tainted" and influenced by "political considerations," while the U.N.'s accounting rules were flouted and its audits inadequate, Mr. Volcker concludes.

Mr. Volcker's article appears to confirm that Mr. Sevan, a U.N. veteran who headed the oil-for-food program from 1997 until it ended in 2003, was awarded lucrative rights to purchase oil by the former Iraqi regime over a five-year period. "The evidence is conclusive that Mr. Sevan, in effectively participating in the selection of purchases of oil under the program, placed himself in an irreconcilable conflict of interest," violating U.N. rules and failing to adhere "to the highest standards of trust and integrity," Mr. Volcker writes.
I think about this now as I see what is transpiring in Iraq. I think about it as I hear the waning criticisms of "Old Europe" leaders also on the take in this now-defunct, "peace loving" effort.

Time for the world to focus on what really is important - a people hungry for self determination.

- Bill
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Panther
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Post by Panther »

It's also time for those who skimmed money & favors from the oil-for-bribes scandal... and those UN officials who participated, looked the other way, and precipitated this theft from the Iraqi people, to be brought to justice through incarceration and restitution.

"Don't commit the crime if you can't do the time"...

Iraq and the newly free people of Iraq can certainly use the riches that were stolen from them by their former dictator... and we know where the money, the influence, and the oil went... there's a paper-trail. The UN should have ZERO credibility at this point. Time to get the U.S. out of the UN and the UN out of the U.S.

Though, you gotta admit, it's nice when the criminals leave a paper-trail that points right at them and allows for the full force of justice to rain down on them... Hope the Iraqi's get the restitution their country so desperately needs.
chewy
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Post by chewy »

Bill Glasheen wrote: WASHINGTON (AP) -- The American military's continued presence in Iraq is fanning the flames of conflict, and signals the need for a new detailed timeline to bring the troops home, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy said Thursday.

Just three days before the Iraqi people go to the polls to elect a new government, the Massachusetts Democrat said America must give Iraq back to its people rather than continue an occupation that parallels the failed politics of the Vietnam war.

"The U.S. military presence has become part of the problem, not part of the solution," Kennedy said in remarks prepared for delivery at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.


BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraq's president said Tuesday it would be "complete nonsense" to ask foreign troops to leave the country now, although some could depart by year's end. Officials began the final vote tally from elections to produce a government to confront the insurgency.

Sunday's election, which occurred without catastrophic rebel attacks, raised hopes that a new Iraqi government would be able to assume greater responsibility for security, hastening the day when the 170,000 U.S. and other foreign troops can go home.

During a news conference, President Ghazi al-Yawer was asked whether the presence of foreign troops might be fueling the Sunni Arab revolt by encouraging rebel attacks.

"It's only complete nonsense to ask the troops to leave in this chaos and this vacuum of power," al-Yawer, a Sunni Arab, said.

He said foreign troops should leave only after Iraq's security forces are built up, the country's security situation has improved and some pockets of terrorists are eliminated.

"By the end of this year, we could see the number of foreign troops decreasing," al-Yawer said.

Al-Yawer had been a strong critic of some aspects of the U.S. military's performance in Iraq, including the three-week Marine siege of the Sunni rebel city of Fallujah in April.

Al-Yawer helped negotiate an end to that siege. But the city fell into the hands of insurgents and religious zealots, forcing the Marines to recapture Fallujah last November in some of the heaviest urban combat for American forces since the Vietnam war.

"There were some mistakes" in the occupation "but to be fair ... I think all in all it was positive, the contribution of the foreign forces in Iraq," al-Yawer said. "It was worth it."


Anybody ever wonder what Teddy is "imbibing" these days? :roll:

- Bill
Funny... to me it sounds like they are saying the same thing.


On a related note:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/ ... index.html


chewy
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Couldn't disagree more, Chewey. The questions by the reporters to Iraq's president were directly a result of Kennedy's statement. And al-Yawer's response was to call Kennedy's statement "complete nonsense." I don't know how you get more opposite than that.

FWIW, even Kerry bluntly disagreed with Kennedy's stance on Meet the Press last Sunday. There was no hesitation. Asked by Russet if he shared Kennedy's view, the quick and firm response was "No." End of story.

As for the U.S. role in the oil-for-food scandal, well check out the dates in the article. Which administration appears to be responsible here? And which administration changed that policy? Food for thought.

- Bill
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Iraq

Post by mikemurphy »

Although I will not change my stance in that I firmly believe we should not be the people brokering this "peace," and I won't open that can of worms for the upteenth time, but I did want to say that those people who came out and voted are real heroes. What courage!

I hope Iraq gets what it wants and can stand on its own two feet without our help, and this is a good start.

mike
chewy
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Post by chewy »

Bill Glasheen wrote:Couldn't disagree more, Chewey. The questions by the reporters to Iraq's president were directly a result of Kennedy's statement. And al-Yawer's response was to call Kennedy's statement "complete nonsense." I don't know how you get more opposite than that.

FWIW, even Kerry bluntly disagreed with Kennedy's stance on Meet the Press last Sunday. There was no hesitation. Asked by Russet if he shared Kennedy's view, the quick and firm response was "No." End of story.
- Bill
Bill, sorry, but I just didn't get that from what you had posted (I'll admit I didn't have the time or inclination to read both complete articles... you gave us the highlights). Just based on what I read above it sounded like (excuse the lame analogy):


Article #1
----------
Ted: Mr. Trump this building is never going to get completed unless we put together a plan... and fast!

Article #2
----------
al-Yawer: Mr. Trump, you can't possibly expect us to start constructing this building yet! I haven't even received my order of I-beams yet!

One can "read into" there statements as much and one wants, but I don't think their statements were mutually exclusive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Ted Kennedy fan, but I didn't arrive at the same conclusions you did based upon what was posted.

Bill Glasheen wrote: As for the U.S. role in the oil-for-food scandal, well check out the dates in the article. Which administration appears to be responsible here? And which administration changed that policy? Food for thought.
- Bill
I could care less what administration did what to who when. The point is, neither does the rest of the world. All they see is the pot calling the kettle black.


respectfully,

chewy
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

You do make an interesting point. Not everything Kennedy said was in the article.

Your building analogy doesn't hold when we can't even agree on the definition of the building.

Kennedy was asking for immediate withdrawal of about 10,000 troops, and a timetable for the removal of the rest. Then he called the whole thing a Vietnam - an interesting analogy given that his brother started the damned thing. And you know what? That's exactly what it will be if we do what Kennedy asked. The insurgency will just bide their time until the cops are gone, and then take over North Vietnam style.

Bush made a commitment to follow and route out terrorism wherever it was. When you have these idiots coming out and blatantly stating they are against people representing themselves in their own government, then what the hell is it but terrorism? These insurgents have nothing positive to offer. They (Baathists and the Islamofascist outsiders) fear losing the tyranny they had and/or losing an opportunity to create theocracy-based fascism. And Iraq's neighbors (Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia) have everything to fear if this experiment succeeds. This is more than about Iraq. Much, much more. This is about the beginning of the end of tyranny and injustice in the Middle East. That more than anything else is the cause of all that we have been fighting since 9/11.


If Kennedy was sincere with his concern about troops, then maybe he should start by demanding the return of soldiers from Germany, Okinawa, and South Korea. Don't you think it's been a while, after all? But this has nothing to do with troops. This has everything to do with the fact that he's a loser, and is desperately grasping for issues to get play in the press.

- Bill
chewy
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Post by chewy »

Agreed and virtually all points Bill 8) . I think we are on the same page, I was just not completely "informed" on the article's contents. I couldn't find a way to phrase the analogy better, but I think you got my point :? . In this case I guess the building represents "the work we still need to do to ensure we leave Iraq reasonable shape and with the tools it needs to succeed as a democracy". A little long winded...

I try to give everyone (Sen. Kennedy and our President) a fair shake when the press reports statements. Even when media outlets aren't "spinning" a story, they can easily leave out important details that cause somebody's public statements to be misinterpretted. But I digress.

I couldn't agree more with you on the troop deployment issue. Not that I don't like S. Korea, but that situation has been going on far too long. It was a UN operation, so maybe they could deploy some troops along the DMZ for us. I have read somewhere, and I'm not sure of the validity, that our primary reason for staying in Korea is to prevent the entire region from teaming up on Japan. Talking to some chinese co-workers of mine, there is still a lot of pent up racial hatred in the region and many people in the SE Asia still feel the need for "pay back".

Also, speaking to my brother in the 1st Inf Div, it sounds like the Army will be changing the way they do European deployments in the near future: no families, 3-6 month "training" rotations (not multi-year deployments), and spreading of training areas/bases closer to Russia (Poland, Hungary, Lithuania, etc). Not sure of a time table.



cheers,

chewy
MikeK
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Post by MikeK »

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... 3_2005feb6

"We were surprised because they had very good manners, so polite, and respected everybody," I wonder who ingrained that into them?
Iraqis Cite Shift in Attitudes Since Vote
Mon Feb 7, 8:11 AM ET

By Doug Struck, Washington Post Foreign Service

BAGHDAD, Feb. 6 -- With a hero who gave his life for the elections, a revived national anthem blaring from car stereos and a greater willingness to help police, the public mood appears to be moving more clearly against the insurgency in Iraq (news - web sites), political and security officials said.

In the week since national elections, police officers and Iraqi National Guardsmen said they have received more tips from the public, resulting in more arrests and greater effectiveness in their efforts to weaken the violent insurgency rocking the country.

None of the officials said they believed the violence was over. An attack Sunday on a police station in Mahawil, 50 miles south of Baghdad, left 22 policemen and National Guardsmen and 14 attackers dead, the Associated Press reported. The incident was a bloody end to a day in which at least nine other Iraqis were reported slain, and a U.S. soldier was killed and two others were wounded north of the capital. Four Egyptian engineers were kidnapped and two insurgent groups issued statements threatening to kill an Italian journalist who was taken hostage on Friday.

But officials in Baghdad said a relative lull in violence in the capital has fueled the sense that something has fundamentally changed since the vote. A change of attitudes in Baghdad could make a crucial difference in the battle against the insurgency, and a buoyed sense of civic pride is already beginning to change the way the public treats the police, authorities say.

"They saw what we did for them in the election by providing safety, and now they understand this is their army and their sons," said Sgt. Haider Abudl Heidi, a National Guardsman wearing a flak jacket at a checkpoint in Baghdad.

Reports from Iraqis reflected a similar shift in attitudes in large areas of the north and south, although authorities acknowledged that in some parts of the country, people remain hostile to the emerging Iraqi authority and supportive, to varying degrees, of the insurgents.

The insurgency began to emerge soon after the toppling of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), on a tide of anger over the U.S. occupation. But in interviews over the past week, officials and Baghdad residents cited what they called a renewed nationalist pride since the elections that they said may be dampening anti-American sentiment, and may be starting to dispel Iraqi tolerance and support for the insurgents.

"I feel very optimistic that things will change for the better because of the strong turnout in the elections. That reinforced our faith and gave us a sense of change for the better," said Ali Jassem, 32, the manager of a bakery in Baghdad.

"You can feel the situation has changed," said Haider Abdul Hussein, 30, a pharmacy owner. "People seem to linger on the street longer. You can feel the momentum, the sense of optimism."

Part of that mood change is credited to Abdul Amir, Iraq's newest national hero. On election day, Amir, 30, a policeman in Baghdad, noticed a man walking toward a polling station who appeared to be carrying something heavy under his coat. Amir wrapped his arms around the man and dragged him away from the crowd. A belt of explosives wrapped around the man blew both men to shreds.

Members of Iraq's interim cabinet have touted Amir as a symbol of national pride. Newspapers have been filled with stories about him. A statue is being planned, and the elementary school that served as the polling station where he died may change its name to honor him.

"It's too simple to say what he did was heroic," said Najat Abdul Sattar, the principal of the school, where bright-eyed children study in dim concrete classrooms just yards from where Amir was killed. "What more honor could we give the man?"

"When people saw what he did, they said we will not let those violent people intimidate us, and they went to vote in even greater numbers. Where there were three or four in line, after the blast there were 30 or 40," said Mohammed Hadithi, who lives near the school.

The change has also been evident in the recent popularity of "My Homeland," a mournful song that was banned by Hussein but has been revived as a national anthem. Iraqis sing along to the paean to Iraqi glory and nationalism as it blares from radios and from speakers propped up outside storefronts in the capital.

Adil Abdul-Mahdi, the interim finance minister and a powerful figure in the Shiite-led coalition expected to dominate Iraq's new National Assembly, contended that the elections created a sense of solidarity that helped dissolve an Iraqi aversion to trusting neighbors, a habit ingrained during the Hussein era.

"People know their neighbors now. They know they are on the same front as their neighbors -- they all went out and voted," he said in an interview Saturday. "I think this has uncovered the terrorists and insurgents. They are less legitimate now."

The elections also appear to have renewed public confidence in Iraqi security forces, who were on the front lines of a largely successful effort to protect 5,000 polling centers from violence.

In the weeks before and since the Jan. 30 elections, Iraqi forces have claimed increasing success in arresting ringleaders of the insurgency.

Security forces announced Sunday that they were holding a former Iraqi general who they said helped finance insurgent bombings and plotted attacks. The general, Khamis Masin Farhan Ugaydi, 51, was captured Dec. 20 in the town of Baiji, about 120 miles north of Baghdad, the Associated Press reported. Officials did not explain the delay in announcing the arrest.

"We are arresting more terrorists than ever before," said Iraqi National Guard Sgt. Kathem Hanish in Baghdad. "The people are coming to us with information. They are cooperating."

At the station where Amir had worked in the Yarmouk neighborhood of Baghdad, policemen said they were encouraged by the reaction to their colleague's heroism.

"It was a turning point," Capt. Muthana Latif said. "People saw that there weren't any Americans or foreigners there. Only policemen. The suicide bomber was just after Iraqis."

"Policemen did not have a role in this country," police Col. Katham Abbas Hamza said. "Now we are considered number one guardians of the country."

Insurgents have frequently targeted Iraqi security forces, branding them traitors for working with the Americans and propping up the U.S.-backed government. At least 1,300 have been killed in the last six months, according to U.S. officials.

On a board at the Yarmouk police station, the daily shift notices are penciled in next to a handwritten list of funerals: Patrolman Bilal Jassim, shot; Patrolman Mushtaq Talib, ambushed in patrol car; Patrolman Luay Ubaid, killed by roadside bomb. The list has now grown to nine names, including Amir's.

"But if we opened up the recruiting right now, we would be swamped," Latif said.

In Baiji, Iraqi forces arrested 10 people in a raid on Sunday, without triggering an angry public reaction.

"Even though he was taking my son away, he was so nice," an 80-year-old woman who identified herself as Um Younis said about a hooded Iraqi security officer.

"We were surprised because they had very good manners, so polite, and respected everybody," said Anwar Zuhair Khalaf, 38, whose 21-year-old brother was among those arrested. "They asked me, 'Where are the women's rooms?' and when we pointed at their rooms, they did not enter these rooms even though we have a AK-47 in one of these rooms."

Special correspondents Khalid Saffar in Baghdad and Salih Saif Aldin in Baiji contributed to this report.

I was dreaming of the past...
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

Its good democracy has come to Iraq, but lets not forget that all the candidates hold the Bush administration in high regard, most likely.
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