Islamophobia

[Mills75]

edited...

Jeff

[Mills75]

edited..

Jeff

[Mills75]

edited..nothing bad in these posts just decided not to discuss this topic afterall..Thanks

Jeff

[Bill Glasheen]

Akil

Is this constructive? Do you feel like anyone is better informed?

The goal of my forum is to share ideas and to enlighten. I've asked you before to take highly contentious threads to Panther's forum. Is there a reason why you persist in posting sarcastically on topics of an inflammatory nature? Just what are you attempting to accomplish?

I am deeply disappointed. It's not the subjects you bring up, Akil, but the way you present them. With your sarcasm along with the posts, you assume the worst in us all.

I know many highly enlightened individuals form many backgrounds who frequent these forums. They would love to engage in a good discussion. I keep hoping that we can learn more interesting perspectives from one of the great faiths on this earth. But I don't see it coming from you with your approach.

Don't take on the burden of representing hundreds of millions, Akil. You are just an individual - as we all are - dealing with the reactions to your own personal beliefs and the way you present them.

Time for a break?

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

To All

I'd like to think that the worst of times can bring out the best in us all. I'd also like to think that we can "drive" amongst the flamers without imitating their "cyber rage."

Some do it better than others.

Years back, a professor at Duke University complained about the profanity amongst the Cameron Crazies (the Duke basketball fans who are seated right up to the floor and right behind the opposing bench). He felt like students of this esteemed academic institution could demonstrate a little more class. The constant "bull***" cheers that made it on national television as a response to bad calls were hardly a good reflection of the school.

The students took his words to heart.

Next home game on national television when a referee made a particularly aggregious call, the students began to chant in unison:

WE BEG TO DIFFER!
WE BEG TO DIFFER!
WE BEG TO DIFFER!

It may not represent mastery of VSD, but it was a start!

- Bill

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Tony & Jeff & Mike,

Thanks Guys

We all get heated and the true test of a man is how he acts when they are thus (in an emotional state)........

certainly, Bill sarcasm doesnt do much to make things better.....but somehow, with Bills (and others help) we are working things out........

and this has worked out, cuz these guys, have heart.....good heart.....we all need to express outrage sometimes, the problem might just be how we do it......with your help (all of you), I will express more patience and you have expressed true concern for innocent Muslims (they arent all this way-go catch the bg's)........thanks mike

I really appreciate the post by tony

Why do I get the feeling that someones been past over for promotion...

i want you to know that the problem is that I woke up on the wrong side of the universe yesterday.........sarcasm may not be the problem, but rather unbridaled sarcasm (on anyone's part, mine or otherwise)....

be safe this weekend, will ya?

[Guest]

Well, along the lines of what Jeff was saying, I mean.. how has any prejudice against Islam really affected you?

[Akil Todd Harvey]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/040602/43/2dfrd.html
By Prasun Sonwalkar, Indo-Asian News Service

London, June 2 (IANS) A respected anti-racism trust has said that Islamophobia is becoming institutionalised in Britain, particularly after September 11.

If not addressed, this could lead to 'time-bombs' of backlash and bitterness, it said in a major report released Tuesday.

Findings by a national commission into Islam in Britain found the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks had made life more difficult for Muslims. It criticised public bodies for failing to address institutional Islamophobia.

The report is the latest publication from the Commission on British Muslims and Islamophobia, a think tank first set up by the anti-racism organisation, the Runnymede Trust.

Its first report in 1997 made 60 recommendations and warned that the government and communities themselves had to do more to improve the situation of Muslims in the UK.

It called for changes in the law to better protect Muslim communities and a major effort to bring its people into public life.

Launching the new report, Richard Stone, chair of the commission, said key recommendations had been ignored.

"On Feb 15, 2003, there took place the biggest public demonstration ever in British history [the march against the war in Iraq]," said Stone.

"But within weeks, the wonderful solidarity seen Feb 15 seemed to be unravelling.

"There is now renewed talk of a clash of civilizations and mounting concern that the already fragile foothold gained by Muslim communities in Britain is threatened by ignorance and intolerance."

Since 9/11, communities had experienced greater hostility, including increased attacks against individuals and mosques, the report said.

It criticised established anti-racism organisations for failing to do enough to combat anti-Muslim prejudice.

Credit for any positive changes since 1997 had to go largely to Muslim groups themselves that had become more organised, the report found.

There was a feeling among some Muslims, particularly the young, that they did not belong to Britain.

This resentment and disaffection represented a time bomb that needed to be dealt with now, it said.

Abduljalil Sajid, an imam and adviser to the commission, said he believed many elements of the UK were "institutionally Islamophobic".

"Since the September attacks, the single most important concern has been police harassment of Muslims," said Sajid. "Even one of the country's Muslim peers, Lord Ahmed, has been stopped twice by police."

Stone added: "The only area where there has been a major change is within Muslim communities themselves.

"Government has not taken on board, in a deep way, the anti-Muslim prejudice in this country."

The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), which was among those to submit its opinion to the commission, said "very little progress" had been made to tackle Islamophobia.

Secretary-general Iqbal Sacranie said: "We have been witnessing a relentless increase in hostility towards Islam and British Muslims, and it is clear that existing race relations bodies have been either unable or unwilling to combat this phenomenon effectively."

"Islamophobia is becoming institutionalised," he added.

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Tony,

thanks for asking......now i wonder what I should be asking you (to be respectful and as concerned for you as your question has done for me)

Islamophobia, as experienced by me.........It is not always easy to tell.......my former neighbor used to tease me to no end....he would call me shaquile........he would make weird noises to make fun of the arabic language or greetings (of peace). Assalamu Alaikum, Shalom (hebrew), whathaveyou........my neighbor would ask me to go to church with him and I was always willing to go, but I wondered if we could go the mosque some friday........never a two way street, always one way..........he seemed very afraid that to merely step in the door, he would automatically be brain washed or something.......

i have shown up on plenty of job sites, to hear "sand black", "towel jokey", whatever ignorant blatherings they have ready at the time.....I gave up on calling myself akil as a means to make sure that I would actually get a job (or even get the call). working as an electrician in the last year, there were plenty of times that I just kept my muslim name and muslim identity to myself. to keep away from the pork around here, you just pretend you are one of those weird vegetarians, at least they have minimal respect in the west coast........

this is low level stuff by the way, but part of the spectrum..........like i was telling dana in a pm, when I first became Muslim, I had some woman friend come tell me, "How could you become Muslim, they are the most sexist religion", as if all muslims are the same and all treat women the same...........my mother is a feminist historian at the university of michigan and .........thus, i guess i was expected to treat all Muslims how? like they are all alike?

Some higher level stuff.......I used to attend Mosque in culver city just around the corner from sony pictures studio.........And then one day, I heard on the radio that the fbi had arrested a jewish guy for planning to blow up the mosque that I attended right here in the one o fthe suburbs of LA. He had also planned to assassinate a lebanese christian congressman from san diego...........

pre-9/11, my wife did not cover her hair in any way. that was her choice........I might want to encourage her to cover her hair publicly (or some portion of it), but force is out of the question. within weeks of 9/11, my wife began wearing a head scarf in solidarity with Muslim women who cover (to varying degrees). At the time, woemn who were wearing head scarves in public were being attacked, having their headscarves forcibly removed by strangers, and being the receiver of much verbal abuse.

what does that have to do with me? well, every time my wife leaves the house to go to work, school etc, I worry about her........Orange county, while not some place full neo-nazis and skin heads, isnt exactly your most cosmpolitan of places. without her hair cover on, she looks more like a filipino, and would raise little attention to herself, but with that scarf on her head, its like she has a big target on her head (she just gave me a kiss and went out to go do some shopping).......time to worry?

I used to wrry alot more than I do now (although that has changed very recently). Most of the folks at her work are respectful (the one guy who used to harass her at work has left (a filipino guy used to say some rather nasty things about islam on a regular basis until she let him have it-threatening him with being reported for his abuse and generally putting him in his place-she is very tolerant and patient, to a point, and then look out, she wont take no more). ever once in a while, she will be told by folks, possibly well meaning, that she doesnt have to wear that thing on her head (not knowing that she chose to wear it-out of modesty, not fear or coercion).......

most of the time, my wife simply gets underestimated. most people who meet her at her work assume that she teaches some of the easy classes at the art institue of orange county. it usually blows their mind when they find out that she teaches fundamentals of animation using macromedia flash, dreamweaver, etc and that she is a webmaster, and just earned her masters degree in instructional design & technology from the university of california at fullerton, having graduated with a 4.0 gpa and was asked to become a member of the faculty at cal state fullerton in the instruction design & technology program........and she just was awarded the honor of being faculrty member of the quarter (kind of like employee of the month).........

one of my wife's web site that I am so proud of is www.rantauan.com, a resource for Malay Muslims living overseas, begun in 2001, we now have 2000+ members.........we also have a business web site ..... www.ultraparadigm.com .......... check it out and note that she did most of the coding/programming).......

[Guest]

i have shown up on plenty of job sites, to hear "sand black", "towel jokey", whatever ignorant blatherings they have ready at the time.....I gave up on calling myself akil as a means to make sure that I would actually get a job (or even get the call). working as an electrician in the last year, there were plenty of times that I just kept my muslim name and muslim identity to myself. to keep away from the pork around here, you just pretend you are one of those weird vegetarians, at least they have minimal respect in the west coast........

Interesting, so you're actually a muslim convert... what is your ethnic background if you don't mind me asking?

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Note: this article was written pre 9/11, but it seems no less valid

http://www.muhajabah.com/docstorage/stereotype.htm
July 30 2001
© Howard Rosenberg, Los Angeles Times

[quote]Caring Americans wring their hands over stereotypes in the U.S. that haunt blacks, Latinos, Asians, Italians, Native Americans, Catholics, Jews, gays and (you fill in the blank). Just as nasty, though, is the stigma that usually goes unmentioned.

An estimated 3.5 million Arab Americans live in the U.S. What would you say, about 3 million are terrorists? Well, half anyway.

Why wouldn't you think that?

Why wouldn't it be in the minds of knee-jerk TV newscasters who reported immediately after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that the FBI was seeking three males, two of them "Middle Eastern with dark hair and beards"?

Why wouldn't the security officers who ejected Abdullah Al-Arian from the White House annex think it too? Al-Arian is the Duke University student and congressional intern who was there for a meeting with Muslim leaders on President Bush's faith-based initiative last month when he was removed after a false tip that he was linked to terrorists.

You know, the shadowy guys we see again and again in movies and on TV. Because there are no other Arabs, right? Except, that is, for harem girls and bearded, limousined, oil-rich sheiks in dark glasses, wielding their billions like spiked clubs.

With violent conflict between Israelis and Palestinians again raging in the Middle East, their media images assume even greater weight and loom especially large. It's hard telling which side is winning the crucial public relations duel in the news, as bitter charges fly back and forth between these Jews and Arabs, each blaming the other for fomenting violence in the most recent intifada, estimated to have killed more than 600 in the last 10 months, mostly Palestinians.

As for PR points in opinion-shaping TV shows and feature films, though, Arabs still are nearly shut out.

"There's an unending barrage of the same hate-filled images portraying Arabs as less than human," said scholar Jack G. Shaheen, whose excellent new book, "Reel Bad Arabs," is a valuable, detailed, fast-reading compendium of theatrical movies that follows his incisive earlier work, "The TV Arab." "Not only are they bashed and vilified on a constant basis," Shaheen added from his home in South Carolina, "the religion [Islam] is thrown in too."

Shaheen mentions a minority of feature films he feels contain positive portraits of Arabs. And on TV? "Zilch, nunca, nada, zero," he said. "You never see Arab families. You never see people who look like and act and behave like other people."

One very, very rare exception is "The Kitchen," Andre Degas' aching small film about conflict between an assimilated young Egyptian American and his Old World-ish father who wants his musician son to one day take over his small grocery store in the Hell's Kitchen section of New York. The Independent Television Service production, which was shown on Father's Day on many PBS stations and Sunday on KCET, uses its Arab characters to explore universal family themes.

More typical is the pilot for a new CBS fall series, "The Agency." It opens with a CIA agent giving a briefing on terrorists "sworn to wage holy war" against the U.S. and its friends. The rest of the story has the CIA scrambling to block a bombing planned by these foreign Arabs and learning that they control even a non-terrorist Arab diplomat posted in Washington.

Coming to CBS as well is "The President's Man: Ground Zero," with Chuck Norris reprising his role as a secret White House operative, this time aiming to stop "an Islamic terrorist," in the network's words, from taking out a major U.S. city with a nuclear device.

Why is "Islamic" relevant to his terrorism? Using it in this context ignores the enormous diversity of this religion, whose followers number more than 1 billion globally, the overwhelming bulk of whom are not fatalistic zealots or suicide bombers.

CBS agreed to drop "Holy War" from the original title, "The President's Man: Holy War," after a meeting with activists, said Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles.

The network also promised to add an Arab American attorney general character to the movie and drop all references to religion but one reference to "Allah" (Arabic for God), Al-Marayati said.

A CBS spokeswoman confirmed the new title and the attorney general figure and said all "Allah" references were out.

She denied that the network had promised the activists anything specific, however, and added that script changes were underway even before the meeting with Al-Marayati and his group.

Latino drug lords are always an option as heavies.

With no more Soviets for U.S. heroes to fight on TV, thanks to the Cold War's ending, however, Arabs have become the clay pigeon of choice.

CBS is hardly the only TV culprit here. Almost from its inception, the medium has been an equal-opportunity stereotyper, distorting or exaggerating the images of just about everything and everyone from gender types to ethnic and racial minorities. After all, it's much easier to reach for a cliché in a card file than dig for creativity.

The difference is that ugly smearing of other minorities is increasingly balanced, at least somewhat, by positive portrayals, the result of intense lobbying by advocacy groups. Not so Hollywood's evil Arabs.

"Whenever they can, they blow off Muslim concerns," said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations. "If they [portrayals] were neutral even 20% or 30% of the time, it might not be so upsetting.

But Muslims and Arabs seem to be the only people stereotyped 100% of the time. People point to the negative portrayals of Italians in 'The Sopranos' [HBO's series about Mafiosi in New Jersey], but there are 20,000 positive ones elsewhere."

It's time to note that the 1993 World Trade Center bombing was no dream and that Arab terrorists are no fantasy. History and news headlines tell us they are every bit as real and scary as Italian mobsters. The issue is balance.

Arabs are depicted as disgusting or they're invisible.

"I'm not saying an Arab should never be portrayed as a villain," Shaheen writes. "What I'm saying is that almost all Hollywood depictions of Arabs are bad ones. This is a grave injustice [because] repetitious and negative images of the reel Arab literally sustain adverse portraits across generations."

Many of the feature movies mentioned in "Reel Bad Arabs" get extended exposure, Shaheen notes, when "repeatedly broadcast on cable television and beamed directly into the home." And the proliferation of "billionaires, bombers and belly dancers" that he cited in earlier TV shows resurface evermore in syndicated reruns shoveled into that deepening infinity known as cable.

Still true is what Shaheen wrote in his earlier book: "The present Arab stereotype parallels the image of Jews in pre-Nazi Germany, where Jews were painted as dark, shifty-eyed, venal and threateningly different people."

Americans should wage war against that. But not holy war. /quote]

[Akil Todd Harvey]

I usually tell people I am an american mutt,

part irish, swedish, scandinavian.....i hear we even have some jewish blood in us as well.......it has been kind of hard getting some of the family tree.....my mothers mother had committed suicide when my mother weas seven and my father was riased not by his real father, but by a stepfather, jerry harvey, where I get my surname........

yeah, tony, of the biggest things that initially made me cautious about becoming a muslim, one was my strong anti-terrorism stance (which i later found out was shared by most muslims)......how my family would respond.....and how my uechi family would respond .....

ya know, tony, i used to ask people about their ethnic heritage a lot, but find myself doing so les and less, despite my continuing interest. its just that I got too many accusations of negativity.

sorry dude, i didnt mean to open up a wound, i was just wondering where you are from, not looking for any resasons to treat you differently.....seriously, when i was attending umass, i met a guy with a moderately discernable accent and was wondering where he was from. i tried to ask in a respectful way, to which he responded, i am an american.....right answer, dude, wrong question........

[Akil Todd Harvey]

The following excerpts are from the following site
http://islam.jeeran.com/bassil1.html

Jhn Esposito, one of the authors cited below, is a non-muslim scholar and administrator from my alma mater, the university of massachusetts at Boston

For the general public in America and Europe today, Islam is "news" of a particularly unpleasant sort. The media, the government, the geopolitical strategists, and although they are marginal to the culture at large - the academic experts on Islam are all in concert: Islam is a threat to Western civilization. Now this is by no means the same as saying that only derogatory or racist caricatures of Islam are to be found in the West...What I am saying is that negative images of Islam are very much more prevalent than any others, and that such images correspond, not to what Islam "is"...but to what prominent sectors of a particular society take it to be: Those sectors have the power and the will to propagate that particular image of Islam, and this image therefore becomes more prevalent, more present, than all others (Muzaffer 1).

John L. Esposito’s book, The Islamic Threat: Myth or Reality, states the question, is Islam a threat to the West? He tells us that the answer lies in the West’s views. He says that if the Western powers continue to defend the unjust status of the Middle East in the name of an illusory or fleeting stability, Islam will be a threat. "But if the Western powers begin to appreciate the legitimacy of grievances in the Middle East, the West and Islamic movements will get along peacefully" (Agha 7).

With the Western media’s spotlight and some Western governmental attitudes, the West is a place where Islam is a name of negativity. The Western media has contributed a great deal to this negative image of Islam. The media often misrepresents and inaccurately explains Islam and its manifestations. Sometimes the media seems to be biased against Islam. When the media distorts the image of Islam, the general public tend to believe it, because the media is a major source of information that the public gets about Islam. This ignorance that the West accumulates from the media leads them into making stereotypes about Islam and associating all Muslims and Arabs together. The West often times views Islam as "fundamental" "extremist" or "discriminatory", but all of these terms have be manipulated, purposely because of biased feelings and accidentally because of ignorance, by the media to present a negative image about Islam. Islam is actually a peaceful and fair religion that most often does not correspond to the media’s reports. As Islam grows more and more in the West, Westerners will eventually learn the truth about Islam and find out that these negative stereotypes are incorrect. It is possible that Islam will become one of the biggest religions in the United States. As more people follow Islam, the media will start to learn about it, understand it, and report about it in positive ways. As long as the Westerners are educated about Islam, they will probably learn to accept it as well.

[Guest]

ya know, tony, i used to ask people about their ethnic heritage a lot, but find myself doing so les and less, despite my continuing interest. its just that I got too many accusations of negativity.

No problem, I'm a Dago from Long Island and a Florida transplant.

[jorvik]

Quote
"London, June 2 (IANS) A respected anti-racism trust has said that Islamophobia is becoming institutionalised in Britain, particularly after September 11.

If not addressed, this could lead to 'time-bombs' of backlash and bitterness, it said in a major report released Tuesday."
Akil
I have to totally disagree with this statement. there are literally millions of Pakistanis in England and they have been here since the 50's....and they are all Muslims. virtually every corner shop in England is owned by Pakistanis, the most popular dish in England is Chicken "korma"
when I had my operation the surgeons who did it were of Pakistani orign
they are everywhere and totally integrated.
most of the schools teach in urdu and Punjabi ( which I think is very wrong, they should teach Welsh and Gaelic before them )
I think that I come across as very accepting of Islam ...and I think that is because of the culture I live in............however, having said that ..the London bombers were all English ( .......and their families, which are totally close knit and respectful of the "Family" are distraught that their children have done these despicable acts )

I look on these suicide bombers as impressionable children................my wife is a nurse and she used to tell me about attention seeking young girls taking an overdose of paracetamol ........then deciding that they wanted to live after all .......sorry can't do that with paracetamol ......or with bombs.