a black belt in the marines

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a.f.
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a black belt in the marines

Post by a.f. »

I don't think anyone's going to come out unprepared for a fight with these requirements. These guys really know how to train hard.

Marines Martial Arts Belt Levels:
Each level includes stretching,
body-hardening exercises, academic study and written exams.
Tan- Basic techniques. Instruction focuses on core values and principles of leadership.
Techniques include the basic warrior stance, body-movement angles, punches, body
strikes, chokes and throws.
Gray- Instruction includes more basics, introductory to intermediate fundamentals and
mental discipline. Techniques include elbow and knife-hand strikes, chokes, counterchokes,
counter-strikes, off balancing techniques and bayonet fighting.
Green- Intermediate fundamentals of each discipline. Techniques include muscle gouging,
shoulder throws, wrist locks using enhanced pain compliance, ground fighting and
weapons of opportunity.
Brown- More intermediate-level fundamentals and introductory advanced-level
fundamentals of each Discipline. Techniques include bayonet methods against multiple
attackers, leg locks and armbars, armbar counters, fire-arm disarms and retention, and
nonlethal baton tactics.
[Black]-Advanced skills. Techniques include bayonet use in low light and against
multiple attackers, sweeping hip throws, face rips and triangle chokes from the guard,
pistol counters, cupped-hand strikes and pressure point applications.
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

For what it's worth... The MCMAP has had Okinawan karate influence, including from traditional Uechi Ryu karate. And our own Rich Castanet is a "Subject Matter Expert" for their program, and the only civilian black belt in the Corp.

They also draw from Shotokan, BJJ, Muay Thai, and FMA. And let's not forget the "any weapon" part of their creed. They're big on training the entire range of the force continuum.

You like to bash prearranged kumite? Guess what? These folks do one. They have a bayonette yakusoku kumite that's done with the real thing. And these boys and girls don't eat quiche for breakfast.

The thing I also like about the program is something I believe we should do more of in Uechi Ryu. They study other martial cultures, such as the Spartans and the Apaches. For every physical principle or technique they learn, there's an equal amount of classroom material that works on spirit, character, and discipline. As much as I've heard people call such study "fringe" work, these folks understand the importance of rounding out the body-mind-spirit package. And they walk the talk.

Good stuff! 8)

- Bill
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

And our own Rich Castanet is a "Subject Matter Expert" for their program, and the only civilian black belt in the Corp.
Thanks for the mention Bill. I do need to clarify this a bit. There are a few former Marines out there now who are 'civilian' MCMAP black belts. There are also about 15 or so former Marines and civilians with the honorific 'Subject Matter Expert'. Some are former Marines and one civilian in particular you would probably recognize: Ken Shamrock.

I earned the MCMAP black belt by going through the entire program and was awarded the honorific in addition to that. Plus, having been through the entire program I am authorized to train Marines in MCMAP through black belt. That is unique.

Here is my MCMAP SME Belt:

Image

The standard black belt does not have a stripe. A BB Instructor/Trainer has a red stripe. More red stripes are added with each degree, up to six. A BB Instructor has a silver stripe.

Bill alluded to the entire content of MCMAP as going way beyond martial techniques. Here is a sampling of the training that accompanies the tan level techniques:

TAN BELT

TECHNIQUE TIE-IN
PUNCHES USMC CORE VALEUES PROGRAM
FALLS SUICIDE AWARENESS AND PREVENTION
LOWER BODY STRIKES, COUNTERS TO CHOKES AND HOLDS, ARMED MANIPULATIONS, WEAPONS OF OPPORTUNITY, PUGAL STICKS
WARRIOR STUDY
UPPER BODY STRIKES SEXUAL HARASSMENT
REAR CHOKE SUBSTANCE ABUSE PREVENTION
LEG SWEEP EQUAL OPPORTUNITY
COUNTERS TO STRIKES PERSONAL READINESS
UNARMED MANIPULATIONS FRATERNIZATION
KNIFE TECHNIQUES SEXUAL RESPONSIBILITY
BAYONET LEADERSHIP FUNDAMENTALS
ADDITIONAL CLASSES MENTAL & CHARACTER DISIPLINES OF MCMAP, RESPONSIBLE USE OF FORCE, HISTORY AND STRUCTURE
17 TOTAL FOR TAN BELT


Second degree black belt requires mastering the ‘combat pattern’ using the M16 with bayonet. That is what Bill is referring to.

Here is a pic from a demo:

Image

I know the pattern but not well enough to perform it a full speed with a live blade. The training period for bayonets is a full week.

Rich
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a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

I'm impressed Rich!
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

Thanks AF. I am nothing special though, just persistant and fortunately pretty durable.

The background of Uechi, the Ukemi Bill teaches all students, and quite a few hours with Raffi D. in FMA made it relatively easy for me. Only the ground fighting was truly new to me.

The true test was surviving the combat conditioning that accompamies the program. Some of it is just pure hell. The worst day was pepper spray orientation, but that is not in the basic BB curriculum, it is part of the Instructor/Trainer process.

What MCMAP did for me was create the combat mindset, something you cannot easily create in the civilian world.

Rich
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Post by a.f. »

Did you find that you picked up the groundfighting pretty easily? I started Judo and find that I'm learning more quickly than I think I expected. My judo instructor was telling about envisioning everything as like a great explosion, with all these remnants of information floating around, left over from a grander, earlier epoch. The martial artist collects these remnants, codefies them. If he/she tries to collect too many at once, it's maddening. The trick is to learn one remnant of information very well before integrating the next.

I thought that analogy was particularly revealing.
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

Did you find that you picked up the groundfighting pretty easily?
At first no. But we had weekly sessions on groundfighting and one day the light came on. You just need to do it a lot. All of a sudden, I could just 'see' the openings for techniques.

One big thing I learned is that untrained people have certain built in traits. The worst one is the tendency to stay off their back. Once someone starts fighting to get their back off the mat just let them do it.... then you have their back. That opens up a host of chokes etc.

My ground skills are modest but if being overpowered by a person with no ground training I will go to the ground and get into the guard. I can pretty much rest there for a moment and let the attacker flail into an opening for an arm bar, joint lock or a choke out.

The bottom line is that the more diverse skills you have the better.

Rich
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Glenn
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Post by Glenn »

The MCMAP and Shamrock's involvement with it have gotten some coverage in recent issues of Black Belt Magazine. I couldn't tell you which issues specifically, but at least 2 issues this Spring have covered them.
Glenn
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Post by RACastanet »

Here is a neat picture of Ken working on a partucularly nasty takedown with two Marines in the large mat room @ Quantico. I cannot remember the name of this technique but if you look closely it is used as a close-in takedown and leadin to a really painful leg lock. Maybe one of the grapplers on the forums knows what this is called.

Image

Ken travels to Quantico at his own expense. After a one day I/T session he opens up the trainng to all comers. After this session he was presented with an honorary MCMAP BB and the SME title.

I am listed on the MCMAP website under SMEs in the Public Relations position. I was in the 'force continuum' slot but that position was eliminated late last year and I was put into the first available catagory. Mostly I provide firearms and range support.

Rich
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f.Channell
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Post by f.Channell »

Rich.
That is harai goshi but from what I see I would rather be the guy in the black pants. Notice how he is stable in his balance and flat footed.
He should be on his toes and off balance.

Here's the counter for that failed throw.
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/nauta/uranage.gif

That's what the guy in the black pants could counter with.

It is a serious slam and a tough fall to take.

It was probably just a demonstration so no insult intended. Just showing what a judo guy might do.

F.
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

> You like to bash prearranged kumite? Guess what? These folks do one. <

As an infantry soldier I did bayonet kumite. Not all kumites are created alike, that has been the contention all along. :wink:

You practice a kumite designed for the street or the battlefield and you have got a winner. 8)
Van
a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

Van:

Does Dan kumite qualify in your opinion?

Rich: I'm curious as to how long each training section takes for the marines. E.g. how many classes until you feel the marine has become proficient (not an expert, just reasonably proficient) in area? For instance, how many classes for throws, groundfighting, etc. How long for knifework?
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Post by RACastanet »

AF: there is a proscribed minimum amount of time of supervised training for each technique. The total supervised training time for the tan belt, which all Marines go thru, is about 27 hours. Tan belt, and gray belt are all the basics. The tan test has 50 techniques and you must score a minimum of 80%.

For gray belt, which all Marines are encouraged to get, is about 32 hours of supervised instruction plus about 7 hours of supervised sustainment training for tan belt techniques. The test for gray also has 50 questions plus 5 on tan material. Taking the pretest and passing with a perfect 5 of 5 is required before you take the gray belt test.

Green gets more interesting as the pretest has 5 tan and 5 gray belt challenges. That requires a 90% to move on to the GB test. All infantry types must get the green belt.

And on and on.

By the time you have your black belt you have over 250 hours of supervised instruction, plus passed a series of retention tests. The BB retention test has 20 random techniques and you need to score a 90% to move onto the BB test itself. I had a perfect score on the retention test and a 97% on the actual BB test, not performing the rolling knee bar properly.

When are the Marines proficient? Not after tan and gray courses. They start to look really good after the green belt. By BB the basics and intermediates are nailed down and the advanced stuff is workable.

Most Marines enjoy MCMAP so much they do a lot of unsupervised training on their own time. The result is quite an effective warrior.

Rich
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Post by a.f. »

Math is not my strong point, Rich. :D

So what you're saying is, to learn 50 techniques takes 27 hours? Am I getting that wrong?

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way.

Say, for green belt, about how many hours are spent on weapons? Striking? Ground?

As I said, math is not my strong point. :oops:
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Post by RACastanet »

So what you're saying is, to learn 50 techniques takes 27 hours? Am I getting that wrong?
That is supervised training time to instill the basics so the Marine can go off on his/her own and perfect the 50 techniques before the test.

More later.

Rich
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