judo, aikido, jiu jutsu, brazillian jiu jutsu

[chalkdust]

please discuss:

how do they compare?

[MikeK]

Try each one and find out.

[Bill Glasheen]

please discuss:

how do they compare?

Simply put...

It all starts with jiujitsu which was the empty hand art developed by the samurai, to be practiced on the battlefield when a sword was dropped or broken. It evolved from there.

Judo is a competitive sport invented by Jigoro Kano that came from throws and grappling techniques in jiujitsu. The purpose of judo isn't to hurt your opponent, but rather to win a match. Judo is to jiujitsu as sport karate (like the WKF) is to traditional karate.

Aikido is an art invented by Ueshiba that is based on jiujitsu, judo, and iaido (the sword art). Aikido is sometimes classified as a "gentleman's art" as the purpose is to thwart an attacker without intentionally trying to hurt him. That's much easier said than done, which is part of the "art" of the art. In other words it's a lot easier to thwart an attacker by wasting him than it is to control him without hurting him.

BJJ is a Brazilian offshoot of jiujitsu that - like judo - has evolved into a sport. However it retains some of its "street" aspects. The Gracie family has made BJJ famous in MMA tournaments.

- Bill

[Jake Steinmann]

If you want to get technical, BJJ is actually an offshoot of Judo.

What is it exactly you want to compare?

[chalkdust]

so u think jiu jutsu is the "deepest" art?

does it contain the aikido and judo stuff for the most part?

maybe packaged differently?

I thought BJJ was touted to be the most effective training iteration.

so did brazillians train in japan or did japanese teach in brazil?

[Jake Steinmann]

so u think jiu jutsu is the "deepest" art?

does it contain the aikido and judo stuff for the most part?

maybe packaged differently?

I thought BJJ was touted to be the most effective training iteration.

so did brazillians train in japan or did japanese teach in brazil?

Arguing about which one is "deepest" is utterly pointless. They each have their own merits, depending on your goals.

For one, thing "Jujitsu" (however you choose to spell it) is a generic term. Asking about "jujitsu" is akin to asking about "karate". There are many different styles and sub-styles, each with their own emphasis and merits.

The Gracies were taught in Brazil by Mitsuyo Maeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuyo_Maeda), a student of Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo. They then altered their system to suit their own environment and ends, eventually calling it Gracie Jujitsu.

Every martial art touts themselves as being the most effective. That's the nature of the beast. No one is going to say "yeah, I train in this art, but honestly, it ***** for real fighting." (Or at least, very few people will say this).

Judo and Brazilian Jujitsu have a lot of common techniques, which is not surprising, since they share a common ancestor. Because of their competitive rulesets, they tend to emphasize Nage Waza (throwing techniques) or Ne Waza (ground techniques) to different degrees.

There is a lot of common themes in the technical curricula of various jujitsu systems. Frankly, there's a lot of common themes in all grappling arts. There's only so many effective ways to twist and throw a human being around.

[Bill Glasheen]

There's only so many effective ways to twist and throw a human being around.

As Larry Tan used to tell me, "There are only so many ways to twist the human body. After a while, you start repeating yourself." That's why I don't see style boundaries that many insist are there.

Sometimes someone in another "style" can show you applications that you never knew existed in your own body of knowledge. This is why it's so important to get out and work with others.

- Bill

[MikeK]

chalkdust,
Really, if you can try each art do so. Having people try to describe them will never do justice to what makes them each unique and what they have in common.

[IJ]

Few words on BJJ:

You can find instructors whose job it is to prepare you for pure fighting applications in the ring, MMA style, or ones who prepare you for gi, sport jiujitsu where there is no striking.

You can also find a bunch that emphasize self defense technique at the beginning of each class or make seminars of it. I learned a heck of a lot about common street attacks like headlocks and bear hugs and tricks on closing the distance that I never would get to use in a BJJ tournament that were among my most valuable lessons there.

BJJ has nothing against throws, and a friend won a match just throwing a superior ground fighter over and over, and instruction is full of street-modified BJJ using strikes and anticipating defending against them and difficult surfaces. But the meat of the sport art is ground fighting technique--the takedown is just the setup, and taking yourself down is just as good.

BJJ was my crack habit for a while but it's hard on your body (not to say that judo isn't, and with my build, I'm sure they woulda snapped me over a knee like a stick by now had I chosen it instead).

It's also relentlessly competitive and partner oriented. Everything is with a partner. You spend half the class sparring. And you can do everything--the sweeps, the chokes, the locks--whereas in Uechi if you eye gouge and groin kick people get mad. Admittedly you're not trying to snap the arms off, but well done submissions can be done slowly. Punches? Little harder.

As a result the core and cardio work is pretty intense. I've never been more tired in my life (as tired, maybe, not more).

[NEB]

And what of the proper spelling of "jiujitsu"? I always understood it to be "jujutsu." "Ju" meaning soft and "jutsu" meaning art. Compare that to judo, for instance, ju again meaning soft, and "do" meaning way. In Okinawa you see "ryu" after many styles, which I always thought meant "school."

"Jiujitsu," I thought, was a attempt to phonetically encode the usual mispronunciation, which I myself have often been guilty of.

Anyone have a clarification on this, just for Schitz and giggles?

[Bill Glasheen]

Anyone have a clarification on this, just for Schitz and giggles?

I did a little research on this, all the way to finding the original characters. That's the best way to settle it.

柔 術 = ju jutsu = gentle art

柔 道 = ju do = gentle way

唐 手 = to de = kara te = China hand

空 手 = kara te = empty hand

空 手 術 = kara te jutsu = empty hand art

空 手 道 = kara te do = empty hand way


Bottom line - you are right.

- Bill

[IJ]

Bill, educate me. Why do so many styles have a non-martial sounding element, like gentle or soft, in them? Gentle way by itself sounds like verbal conflict deescalation or veganism or energy field massage techinque. Can you imagine a first martial art being developed in the states? Gentle art my bottom, it would be called something more dramatic or direct, or at least identifiable. Perhaps Bone Crushing Awesome Defense Way, or Global Dominance Power Hand.

[Bill Glasheen]

Why do so many styles have a non-martial sounding element, like gentle or soft, in them?

The short answer is that something is lost in the translation.

There is yang and there is yin. Similarly there is go and there is ju (as in Goju Ryu). The essence of ju in jujutsu and judo is that one receives the energy and manipulates it. You are like the toreador (ju) to the bull (go). The more you are sensing, receiving, and manipulating your opponent's energy - to his/her disadvantage - the more you are achieving the essence of judo. This includes exploiting sophisticated concepts such as leverage, undercutting the center, cutting off circulation, and reorienting an opponent so he has an unpleasant interaction with some high speed dirt.

The more you feel you are muscling the techniques and the less you are seeking a path of least resistance in the struggle, the more you are missing the goal of the art of ju.

This is in contrast to a striker/kicker, who generates his own energy to destroy his opponent.

- Bill

[IJ]

Maybe we need to retranslate these terms then? Aikido comes closest, but would probably be better as defensive manipulation of energy than the usual way of harmony with energy. What would you call forced, aggressive, nonblending jujutsu?

[Bill Glasheen]

What would you call forced, aggressive, nonblending jujutsu?

A case where a single label doesn't quite do it justice.

I still like the overriding principle though. In all my time studying grappling arts, I learned that if it took too much effort then I was probably doing something wrong. That speaks to the concept of ju. The path of lower resistance is almost always the better path.

- Bill