Perfection

[miked]

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1765 ... Perfection

A discussion of "Shibumi".

Regards,

Mike DeDonato
Uechi-ryu of Los Angeles
www.uechi-la.org
uechi-la@ca.rr.com

[CANDANeh]

With tens of thouadns of proper repetitive motions you are seeking to eventually perform with "Effortless Perfection".

Repetition...my bread & butter

34 years ago I entered into the workforce as a production line worker. 11 years of repeating the same movements literally 13,505 times each work day times 5 days per week. 10 years repeating another task 800-900 times per day then the remainder of my career mostly training others the art of removing non essential movement. Yes, sounds "mindless" but understanding can only occur by doing...few survive reaching or the seeing the stage of perfection by taking away what is not required.
My study of Uechi began shortly after becoming a production worker...repetition was not therefore an issue. In time (took years to catch on) I applied the same thought processes to both work and Uechi. The "masters" I observed in both made it look effortless by removing what is not required. The "seeing" of what a master does "differently" can not be copied. Repeat...repeat...tear it apart then repeat some more.

[Bill Glasheen]

Interesting article.

One thing that pushes my button just a bit is the idea that we all can just mindlessly do some form "as is" ad nauseum and expect some kind of divine enlightenment. There are people who can do this and learn this way, but they tend to be very boring people. And I'm also of the opinion that this isn't very good teaching.

I'd hazard a guess that Steve Goss doesn't teach this way. Just a guess...

Yes, we need to practice a technique a thousand times to make it ours. But how that happens is important IMO. Students need to experience a technique in context to lay down the synaptic patterns needed actually to use it. For example... reading and memorizing Catholic catechism (been there, done that) doesn't teach you jack about living The Golden Rule. Memorizing The Constitution doesn't make you a Constitutional scholar. Did you hear that, Barry O??? But I digress.

That was a stunning performance of Kushanku. But (absent knowing who is performing the kata), I'd have to see this person working with bunkai before I was confident that he understood what his body was doing. I'd go so far as to say that I liked his execution of individual techniques, but I thought the performance lacked continuity. That would almost make me believe he was just reciting karate techniques and not speaking the language of karate.

Anyhoo... just being provocative so we can meditate on your article, Mike.

- Bill

[maxwell ainley]

I tend to think repetition needs to be experimented with in conjunction with ones attention span firstly ,quite simply if you don't have a attention span you will not be doing very many reps of anything ,other than in a type of robot mode .

Our goal is; an aware set of reps ,my own experience struggled with the in coming periodic unaware reps .

Observation of this gave me a clearer picture of the two,aware and unaware ,painstaking work .

[miked]

Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

I have a couple of quick points to make:

1. Obviously, I still need to practice spelling (sorry for the typo in the excerpt that you quoted).

2. I agree that 'mindless" (not in relation to Mushin - "no mindedness") repetition is not appropriate. Understanding your practice is just as important as proper repetition.

Regards,

Mike DeDonato
Uechi-ryu of Los Angeles
www.uechi-la.org
uechi-la@ca.rr.com

[Bill Glasheen]

2. I agree that 'mindless" (not in relation to Mushin - "no mindedness") repetition is not appropriate. Understanding your practice is just as important as proper repetition.

I talk to my students about the importance of both mind-ful AND no-minded practice. The former creates the structure. The latter cements the joints in the structure and makes it yours.

It's possible to do too much of either one or the other.

- Bill

[miked]

"That was a stunning performance of Kushanku. But (absent knowing who is performing the kata), I'd have to see this person working with bunkai before I was confident that he understood what his body was doing. I'd go so far as to say that I liked his execution of individual techniques, but I thought the performance lacked continuity. That would almost make me believe he was just reciting karate techniques and not speaking the language of karate."

Bill,

Shimabukuro Sensei, in my view, performed this kata with effortless grace. I think the video was taken in Atlanta at the 2001 Rengokai. Perhaps you were there? Were there pauses during the performance? Yes. I do not know the kata well enough to determine whether the pauses were done for emphasis, demonstration or some other reason. I do find Shimabukuro's execution to be nearly flawless.

Those who are more familiar with Kushanku may have other things to say about the performance.

On another point, neither I nor any of the other board members of Okikukai West inclusive of Goss Sensei teach mindless execution. Neither have any of my former instructors including Ahti Kaend (dec'd), Jack Summers, Forrest Sanborn (dec'd), Carmine DiRamio (dec'd). All of these men sought to bring out the best in their students by instilling discipline, respect and "mindful" repetition.

All the best,

Mike DeDonato
Uechi-ryu of Los Angeles
uechi-la@ca.rr.com
310 710-6334

[Bill Glasheen]

Mike

I'm challenging conventional wisdom. It's what I do. (I don't have to be right... )

I do like many of the individual techniques. Some are almost superhuman. However I don't like some of his pauses, hesitations, and interruptions. That's a bit more subtle.

It reminds me of waxing my car. One of the reasons I don't spend TOO much time on it is because it just makes the dents and scratches show up more. Shimabukuro Sensei's car is VERY waxed. With the perfection of individual techniques, the lesser attention to flow and a possible lack of understanding of targeted sequential striking in a few places starts to show a bit. Subject to interpretation? Most probably. Could I have done the kata better? On the whole, no. Would I have done it differently? Absolutely.

Maybe we can chalk it up to "teacher syndrome." Sometimes teachers begin to lose the personalized performance when they spend so many years teaching "vanilla" kata.

On another point, neither I nor any of the other board members of Okikukai West inclusive of Goss Sensei teach mindless execution. Neither have any of my former instructors including Ahti Kaend (dec'd), Jack Summers, Forrest Sanborn (dec'd), Carmine DiRamio (dec'd). All of these men sought to bring out the best in their students by instilling discipline, respect and "mindful" repetition.

I have the utmost respect for Steve Goss. He's one of a kind.

Jack and I have worked together before - 3 decades ago. I endorsed his mix of jujutsu and Uechi before it was cool to do it (a.k.a. "MMA").

Just one more emphasis.... Sometimes it's important to engage in mindful practice. Other times it's important to engage in mindless practice. Yin feeds yang, and vice versa. I cannot emphasize that enough - even though what I say may not resonate with you at the moment.

Good discussion, Mike!

- Bill

[maxwell ainley]

Mike

I'm challenging conventional wisdom. It's what I do. (I don't have to be right... )

I do like many of the individual techniques. Some are almost superhuman. However I don't like some of his pauses, hesitations, and interruptions. That's a bit more subtle.

It reminds me of waxing my car. One of the reasons I don't spend TOO much time on it is because it just makes the dents and scratches show up more. Shimabukuro Sensei's car is VERY waxed. With the perfection of individual techniques, the lesser attention to flow and a possible lack of understanding of targeted sequential striking in a few places starts to show a bit. Subject to interpretation? Most probably. Could I have done the kata better? On the whole, no. Would I have done it differently? Absolutely.

Maybe we can chalk it up to "teacher syndrome." Sometimes teachers begin to lose the personalized performance when they spend so many years teaching "vanilla" kata.

On another point, neither I nor any of the other board members of Okikukai West inclusive of Goss Sensei teach mindless execution. Neither have any of my former instructors including Ahti Kaend (dec'd), Jack Summers, Forrest Sanborn (dec'd), Carmine DiRamio (dec'd). All of these men sought to bring out the best in their students by instilling discipline, respect and "mindful" repetition.

I have the utmost respect for Steve Goss. He's one of a kind.

Jack and I have worked together before - 3 decades ago. I endorsed his mix of jujutsu and Uechi before it was cool to do it (a.k.a. "MMA").

Just one more emphasis.... Sometimes it's important to engage in mindful practice. Other times it's important to engage in mindless practice. Yin feeds yang, and vice versa. I cannot emphasize that enough - even though what I say may not resonate with you at the moment.

Good discussion, Mike!

- Bill

Bill ,I have practiced Kushanku ,and it was supposed to be a kata with flow ,and also there were kata with pause .

[Bill Glasheen]

Bill ,I have practiced Kushanku ,and it was supposed to be a kata with flow ,and also there were kata with pause .

I sometimes refer to martial movement as language. With that metaphor in mind, our techniques are like vocabulary. When you interact with an opponent, your techniques have a logical flow to them which achieve an end the way speaking a complete sentence does the same.

Have you ever been to a conference and watch someone READ their presentation? Almost nobody (who is worth listening to) does that any more. Tools like PowerPoint make presentation-giving more common. And so now we have people such as your truly who give presentations all the time. My own presentation skills are enhanced now by my years of teaching martial arts. Many who knew me only as an e-mail person or voice over a phone are surprised at how "animated" I am when in front of a crowd. But of course! I spend day in and day out talking while doing martial technique with a partner. (Sometimes I get clocked when I don't have my act together. ).

If you stop to think about it, the words from a presenter who is (successfully) engaging an audience have a rhythm and flow to them. There are words that come forth in an uninterrupted burst. And then there are pauses with intent. Part of it is the way we put words (techniques) together in a grammatically logical flow. And other parts are about the delivery, where a speaker appeals to the emotional side of the brain. That's were the spaces in-between the words as well as varying volume and voice inflection come into play.

My biggest criticism of Uechi Ryu is the excess time spent where teachers are leading students through kata "by rote." In doing this ichi-ni-san practice, we lose that variation of time in-between techniques, as well as varying intensity and internal tension. Before our godan exam, Manny Neves (my partner) and I agreed that we would NOT put the judges to sleep with our performances. And at the risk of hurting ourselves in the process, we most definitely did not. We threw away the rigid structure in our partner exercises, and went for each other. And you know what? It raised the level of both our performances.

Some of this can be taught. Other parts of it need first to be experienced in "mindful" practice, and then felt when allowing the passion (spirit) to carry us away. I like the idea of giving the student clues to these kinds of performances, and then letting what happens just happen. That's the good stuff.

Here's an interesting exercise. Next time Barack Obama gives a speech (e.g. a State of the Union speech), do NOT watch it on television. Tape it first. Then go online and first READ the speech. After having read it, THEN watch him give the speech "live." For what it's worth, I prefer reading his speeches. That says a lot about me, and my understanding of Obama's oratory skills and intent. I have a wonderful comparison I like to make, but... I choose not to. Maybe after Barry O leaves the oval office.

- Bill