Ueichi Sparring Rules Development

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:06 pm

Finis origine pendet - the end depends on the beginning. The rules of any one venue often dictate the ideal way to "fight" in that venue.

Often specific styles make assumptions about how one is to fight. With aikido we assume that we exist in a civilized society and don't necessarily want to dislocate shoulders and rupture eyeballs. With other styles we assume that the fighting isn't one-on-one; the possibility is left open for there to be another bad guy in the room.

If we say that you fight one person in one ring without any toys and excluding a bunch of techniques, everyone is going to eventually look pretty similar. Sport fighting is sport fighting. It helps you learn to be spontaneous and competitive with a simple vocabulary of techniques with a fairly narrow set of grammatical rules, and not a lot more.

- Bill

Victor · Post by **Victor** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:24 am

This last weekend I attended an Isshinryu tournament and it struck me how little the sparring practices have to do with Isshinryu karate, or actually any traditional karate system. [It seems to me this has been the case for decades, too.]

I finally have a focus I'd like to see if something more Isshinryu appropriate can be developed.

If I remember correctly, I believe Ueichi Ryu has been working on developing Ueichi focused sparring rules.

Are those rules and development discussions availble on this forum? I'm curious how your system has approached this question.

Thanks for any assistance,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

sunsu8 · Post by **sunsu8** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:51 am

Hello! Nice to see someone mention isshinryu- kin to Uechi, but differences!

AS for tournaments, have you ever been to the IHOF (IR hall of fame) tournament? It is held in Gatlinburg TN and is going to be the 3rd of August this year I believe. They have some slight differences in sparring as far as it being a strictly IR tourney. (i.e fakes to the groin are legit points) IT was kind of cool to know that you cold kick like IR-ka do adn get a point for it. At the IR/USIKA shiai, they kumite adn can kick low and fake sweeps adn stuff. The rules were pretty basic.

I agree that some things should be altered for various styles. But if you narrow the margins too much, you are left with blind-folded with your hands tied behind your back. Parameters are set, but there is room for variety and creativity.

sunsu

P.S. Like this thread, wish there were more like this!

Malcolm Wagner · Post by **Malcolm Wagner** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:55 am

Hi Vic,

I have also wondered the same thing at tournaments.

Everyone does their particular kata depending on style---then they climb in the ring and it looks like a free-for-all. Can't tell one fighting style from another---even when it has such vast differences as say Kuntau (Sp?) and Okinawan Karate. Front-snap-kick, forward leg straight punch (jab), reverse-punch, back fist, TKD--- oh my!!! here comes a spinning back kick "attempt".

What gives???

Mal

Victor · Post by **Victor** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:22 pm

Bill,

Thank you for your comments.

As I've been thinking on this, it did seem that I was coming to the same opinion. But remembering (perhaps) discussions I saw here a while ago, I thought Ueichi ryu was working on developing something different.

I still find this something to explore.

Victor Smith

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:53 pm

Victor

Uechi ryu New England was working on this for quite a few years. We've done continuous motion formats, and experimented with adding in techniques we like such as takedowns.

There have been problems:

1) The insurance industry today is biased by and ultimately controlled by the big-name styles. If you can't get someone to accept the rules of your tournament, you are dead in the water. That unfortunately is our own fault. We let certain styles hijack the process in this country while we were asleep at the wheel.

2) If you want to test your mettle against a Shotokan or Taequondo practitioner, you're going to have to step into a ring with a set of rules that those styles agree to.

I see the tournament fighting thing as an iterative process. You need to start with something that can be insured. You need to start with "proven" rules and equipment that is accepted by the majority of folks. You need to establish yourself as a reputable, organized group that knows how to run a tournament. Then change things to accomodate more aspects of your own style a rule or two at a time.

The alternative is to allow a few highly-trained young bucks to enter NHB contests.

- Bill

Victor · Post by **Victor** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 7:52 pm

Fascinating Bill,

I'm well aware its too big a project for one individual to tackle alone.

You've concretely highlited so many of the issues I've been thinking about.

I'm aware of several systems with their own unique sparring practices (but in the school and not at tournament) such as in Hawrang Do, Northern Eagle Claw, and even an Indonesian Shotokan stylist.

Its taken me a long time but I'm beginning to seek how to address Isshinryu as a unique art, and frankly believe your Ueichi experiences tie into this issue.

Thanks again for the directions to consider.

Victor