A perspective from a Korean man

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 4:09 am

I am fortunate to have a class mate from Soule, and we got into a discussion about martial arts and military in South Korea. The rest of this is conjecture from the talk we had.

TKD is something more people do, perceived as a "normal" activity. It'd effinately not the only martial art around. If people are serious, they learn other things as well. ie. cross training. Kungfu and muay thai are also quite big for those that are interested, as are some grappling. He, like all korean men, served in the military. He was basic infantry. The military teaches TKD primarily for it's hand to hand, with some minor variations. The one he pointed out to was kicking with the toes instead of the bottom of the foot.

Now, here's what I got out of it, and it's kind of funny looking at some of our homeland practitioners. The serious martial artists did not just learn one art, but they learned several, or rounded themselves out somehow.
This would be especially important in a martial art like TKD that focused so much in one area I think. But, are you rounded? Do you feel capable of fighting in a variety or situations? Limiting yourself to one art to stay traditional?

Adam

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:32 am

You'll find many cross trainers here, Adam.

I find it interesting that in my years of teaching, I've had quite a few TKD and Hapkido practitioners gravitate towards a style like Uechi ryu so they could learn an "inside" game. Since Uechi is an unknown in our area, we tend to know how to handle the average TKD person. Once they learn our trade though, they then become quite dangerous.

And that in turn leads to the grappling arts, which bring you in another direction. I think probably the most popular second art these days for a Uechi practitioner (outside of broadening the force continuum) is something along the line of jujitsu, aikido, judo, or other grappling art.

Good information! Thanks for the visit.

- Bill

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 1:40 am

Adam,

Ask your friend how many hours a day he did his TKD thing while he was in the service. You didn't mention anything about Hapkido. Did he do any of that or is that something they don't do? It might be interesting to find out about some of his training methods.

Sounds real interesting.

------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Alan K · Post by **Alan K** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 3:37 pm

Allen:

You mention Hapkido, which made me think of a Hollywood, MA who made an action picture quite popular around 1983. I remember this era because I recall, after seeing this movie one day, going to class at GEM's dojo in Boston (behind Gellette; Soburn Park?).

Anyway, do you remember his name?

Alan K.

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 3:47 pm

http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/hapkidokoreanartofselfdefense.html

Bong Soo Han

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:34 pm

Those names bring back thoughts of others' names, Van, AlanK... There was a gifted student of Hapkido's Jo Bang Lee as well as a reputed top knife fighter. I wore out his books, and if there was anyone whom I could have called my martial arts "image" when I was a young man, it was he.

He was killed when his plane went down in Central/South America [Don't remember if the country was El Salvadore or San Salvadore].

He was quite a fighter and a Merc and it was thought that his plane was either sabotaged or shot down.

------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

student · Post by **student** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 pm

Michael Echanis.

David Moy may well remember there was a huge thread about Echanis and what was real and what B.S. about him on the Practical/Tactical Forum at BladeForums.

Echanis rose in the ranks of HwarangDo (Joo Bang Lee's martial art - you're not wrong in remembering that Lee was also in Hapkido, Allen, but Lee was self-declared the Grand Master of HwarangDo) to 4th degree black belt.

There was some controversy as to how skilled in HwarangDo Echanis actually was - Greg Walker was the real force behind Echanis's Ohara Publication books. Echanis' actual rank is immaterial, in my mind, as there is no question he did see combat, regardless how much, and did die in Nicaraugua.

Murray/student

[This message has been edited by student (edited October 04, 2002).]

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 9:10 am

Thanks student.

So it was Nicaragua. An internet search, which I am tempted to do but won't may reveal fact and folklore about ME.

He had two knife-fighting books that I remember, and believed some and not other stuff. Maybe just my style.

I remember the "self-declared master" controversy from some years back. There was also talk going on about 20 years ago that Hapkido didn't exist in Korea but was an american creation by a Korean. There's an awful lot of misinformation out there, and sometimes it's hard to decipher what's true and what's not.

I believe I heard of ME's death by an article in SOF magazine (yeah, I read that one too when I was a kid).

Again thanks for the info.

I am still waiting for some answers to my questions from Adam. I used to know a number of Koreans who were former military and am curious to discover how his friend's training may have been the same or different.

One of the best TKD masters I ever met didn't teach classes nor did he have a dojang. Rather he was a cook in the backroom of a small dingy restaurant hidden away in Chicagoland. But he really knew his stuff... My wife. also Korean, once told me that many Korean top-level fighters/high-level TKD black belts -- the REAL thing -- who live in this country have no association with martial arts and hold menial jobs like the cook did, and for low wages to boot. Shame, because there's a lot of beautiful talent that those people are going to take to the grave with them.

------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:27 am

Hi Allen
I have a book by Michael D Echanis on knife-fighting, I think there were two, and another one on stick-fighting. He seemed a very flamboyant charachter, he had a huge mustache and if I remember correctly used to drive around in an orange jeep. I read about his death in an English ma publication, which got the news ,as you say from sof.
I think he was killed in a helicopter by a grenade going off or dome sort of explosive.
there is a lot of controversy about the origin of the Korean ma's, I'm still undecided but I believe that the most probable is that they are a mixture of Daito-ryu Aikijutsu and karate mixed with other stuff..then people change the names to sell it on as something with a tradition and a history. Sometimes you find name changes over a couple of years, as was the case with Hwarangdo.Having said that the best alround ma that I have known was a Kuk-Sul-Won stylist.......Interesting to speculate though
with all the wars that Korea had with Japan,they must have had a fairly well developed national art.